cut shells, whose done it?

[dashowdy 141]

I was browsing the net the other day and came across the idea of cut shells with wax and birdshot mixed together, there are some videos on youtube of them being fired out of a saiga-12 without a problem, so I decided to make some up and give them a try this weekend. Wanted to see if anyone else on here had tried it and if so how did it go what was the accuracy like.

 

I made them out of plain candle was and federal wal-mart multi purpose target load just for reference, and I will be firing them out of my benelli supernova tactical with improved cylinder.

 

here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWWqXVbAfA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqosJmUS-0&feature=relmfu

[Fitty% 808]

Yeah I follow these guys on youtube. Pretty interesting shotgun loads. I've done both the wax slugs and the cut shells. The cut shell puts some added pressure on the gun due to the fact that its shooting the plastic shell though that is larger then the barrel. Plus its hit and miss wether you get a FTE or not, well at least for me it was...lol

[patriot 7,197]

I'd PASS. You're firing an OVERSIZE projectile through your barrel. Pressures will be much higher. How high, I don't know. Is it worth your life?

 

Ask Winchester or Remington tech support. They'll know.

Edited May 3, 2012 by patriot

[Shotgun12 205]

I am subscribed to them too, i could spend all day watching their videos. I have been tempted to make their wax slugs before and this has made my decision. It's time to take a trip to Walmart and Hobby Lobby.

[piwo 3]

_{Ya, for an autoloader it's going to be trial and error. I'd rather not be the first with the gas run autoloader. Pushing an oversized object through a barrel is nothing new. Billions of cast lead bullets (one heck of a lot harder that that soft plastic shot shell) are fired every year by shooters and every single one is several thousandths over groove measurement. Anything over 900 - 1000 fps they'll lube the projectile but it's not a foreign concept. All you have in the end is a lead core that has a protective cover on it (like a lead bullet with a copper jacket or lead ball with a cloth or paper patch) but the pressures will be unknown. In a non gas system weapon I'd not hesitate.......}

Edited May 3, 2012 by piwo

[Johnny Redmist 7]

Only thru a break action single shot years ago (cut shell)..worked ok but ammo was low brass.and I was a lot younger and did'nt know any better..lol.. My Granddad taught me, he was a Great Depression survivor..

[patriot 7,197]

Mr. Barnum and Ron White were right....

 

There's a sucker born every minute, and 'Ya can't fix stupid.

Edited May 3, 2012 by patriot

[XD45 7,124]

You cant fix stupid. But sometimes stupid fixes itself.

[Fitty% 808]

Wax slugs....nothing wrong

 

Cut shells.....more pressure but shouldn't really be an issue IMO lol

[patriot 7,197]

Yeah, wax loading the shot column is a good safe load. Sort of a poor man's 12ga Glaser safety slug.

 

Used on a groundhog, it looks like the little prick swallowed a minigrenade. Very messy and very graphic. An almost cartoonish amount of gore.

It goes in as one big piece, then explosively comes apart.

[dashowdy 141]

I will video tape it this weekend, I made five so far and will see how those run, 2 single shot and 3 back to back and how they work, it is low brass federal so I dont expect it to blow anything up but I will be behind a tree for the first test fire just in case.

 

I guess I am doing wax slugs, what is the difference between the two cut

shells vs. wax slugs/ budget zombie round

[patriot 7,197]

The cut shells would tend to not fly apart as fast. Also, they may blow the center out in the barrel, leaving the cut section of hull trapped in the barrel for the next round to slam into (NOT GOOD)

 

Want a nasty round? A stack of flattened lead discs in an unslit shot cup. Easy to make with lead round balls and a vise to flatten them out. Just watch your payload weight and if using factory ammo and dumping the shot, make sure the weight of your payload is a bit less than the shot you're replacing.

[dashowdy 141]

I might just have to give that a shot, I also thought about cutting out the shot and leaving the crimp, melting it down and making a poor mans slug out of the bird load, putting it back in the shell, then sealing it with epoxy or something. This idea seems a little more risky but I have heard of guys making slugs this way in foreign countries where ammo is severely restricted.

[patriot 7,197]

You don't need to seal it with epoxy, nor would you want to. A card disk and a dab of Elmer's glue works well.

[preparehandbook 326]

I've done cut shells in the past, but every now and again you see a shotgun that ruptures doing it, so no more for me.

 

Wax/shot and glue/shot slugs are one I greatly enjoy. they are a nice compliment to casting my own slugs and dropping them into wally world bulk-pack birdshot.

 

If you want a round that penetrates J&G is running a great sale on DDupleks steel slugs I bought a butt load just to play with.

[piwo 3]

Well if you're using cut shot, hopefully you're using it single loaded. If that shell can be loaded in an auto loader or even a pump, it's not cut correctly. A one eight overlap of material would NEVER stand up to being magazine fed, nor likely a pump. This is not something one would want to load a bunch up and shoot: more of a field expedient remedy to a problem such as a large animal that needed to be killed or stopped (regardless how many legs that animal had ).and bird shot wouldn't do. Contemplating the "ifs" and having a plan is a good thing in life. There is nothing stupid in learning what your equipment can do, and having a plan. Doing it safely is a matter that cannot be taken lightly, or only half thought out. If you're going to do it, make sure you are with a modern platform, and if you decide to try it through your auto loader you may well be dancing with the devil.

 

May be a big reward, or a big problem. Only you can decide if it's worth it....... That's my take!

[dashowdy 141]

prepare or patriot what is the best way for stuffing a slug in a emptied shell like this.

[patriot 7,197]

Drop the slug in.

Add a thin cardboard disc on top of the payload.

Secure with Elmer's glue.

Let dry.

 

SINGLE load these to shoot them.

 

Disclaimer:

I am not responsible for any damages caused by using these directions. You're on your own.

[XD45 7,124]

This is not something one would want to load a bunch up and shoot: more of a field expedient remedy to a problem such as a large animal that needed to be killed or stopped (regardless how many legs that animal had ).and bird shot wouldn't do.

 

I'd rather just shoot for the eyes with birdshot rather than try to use cut shells in a defensive situation.

 

Of course having a few slugs in your pocket is even better...

Edited May 4, 2012 by XD45

[dashowdy 141]

These are just to fun around with I would never use these for SD, I keep it loaded with 00 super x buck for night time.

[preparehandbook 326]

prepare or patriot what is the best way for stuffing a slug in a emptied shell like this.

 

I use a lee key slug mold, though I've made a variety of home molded slugs in the past.

 

I either pry the crimp open and then fold it back, or I use a roll crimper in my drill press, though if I roll crimp too aggressively I create shells too short to cycle in my S12.

 

I buy wally world bulk birdshot and convert them to cheap slug loads, theres nothing like having .23 cent slugs for range blasting.

 

the forum "cast boolits" has a large number of threads on this process.

[Guns Are Great 140]

I see it as a last ditch effort when needing a slug. Just a another trick for hard times and not an everyday thing. When I was a kid a friend of mine would cut at the bottom of the shot level and when shot it seperated at that point for a short distance slug. Never really seen him use for anything though.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Guns Are Great

[patriot 7,197]

Wax works better. Safer too.

[preparehandbook 326]

A wax or hot glue shell is dramatically safer and easily as effective.

 

Moss pawn has the definitive youtube series on these different rounds with accuracy, penetration and ballistic gelatin tests.

[Salmonking 149]

Quick and easy slugs. They won't be as accurate as a foster's, but it'll get the job done.

 

[PRISONSHANK 70]

besides shooting game in a regulated state that requires shotgun over high power rifles, i see no use for using slugs in a shotgun. dont get me wrong i love running slugs @ targets but as a go to style of weapon, your style of use varys drastically when using a shotgun over a rifle. I'd hate to be in a life altering situation with a shotgun merely loaded with one mag of slugs.

[preparehandbook 326]

There are many reasons why a shotgun full of slugs is a beautiful thing.

• a soft armored target can shrug off bukshot (as in the north hollywood shootout), but a catching a slug with body armor will seriously ruin your day.
  
• Bears are known for ignoring serious wounds, even rifle wounds, but the energy transfer of an oz+ slug of lead reliably gets their attention.
  
• energy transfer, energy transfer, energy transfer
  
• It's like shooting a semi auto musket, but with better velocity.
  

The shotgun is massively more versatile than the rifle, so it's not really a matter of "shotgun slug vs rifle" unless you have a rifle that will also do well on small game birds, squirrels etc (without excessive meat loss).

 

Personally I would not feel at all undergunned with my Saiga in most urban or rural situations, be it hunting or combat. I'd only worry if the range started to really stretch out.

[romad7 75]

I just loaded unslit wads with #BB steel shot and got very good results. I imagine that this can be done similarly with lead shot to avoid messing up your choke, I just don't reload lead shells.

 

This is at about 15-20 yards with this gun:

 

 

Here is the result of 5 rounds, no sights, pistol grip only (one shot was off at the bottom out of the picture):

 

 

So, I would prefer this method over the cut shell for all the reasons mentioned and I don't change any reloading habits, just sub unslit wads and go.

Edited May 14, 2012 by romad7

[preparehandbook 326]

Do you run pistol grip only?

 

If so how's it working for you?

Edited May 15, 2012 by preparehandbook

[romad7 75]

Yep, PGO and I like it. I did everything I could to help with the recoil (Monster Brake and Autoplug) and that seems to be helping.

 

I set the Autoplug to work with my reloads just enough to cycle 100% so I vent as much gas as possible to lessen recoil. Results in the shells ejecting a little to the front but no issues yet, I can always adjust the Autoplug if needed.

 

I'll be cutting the barrel off at the end of the brake sometime this year when I get approved so it'll be a nice compact gun.