Need Help, no boom

[m4bgringo 0]

Every once in awhile I will load a mag, let the bolt go forwards, go to fire and nodda. Open the bolt and there is a fresh round in the chamber, next round ready to come up. Now I can't close the bolt because of the round that wants to load. Gotta drop the mag and let the bolt go to fire the already loaded shell, or pull that shell out with my fingers (or bang the buttstock on the ground) and put another mag in and try again.

 

My buddy and I have used this gun in competition and he NEVER has this issue, just me. I am almost ready to sell it to him, I am getting fed-up.

 

Should I try to push the bolt closed instead of letting it go by itself?

 

When I open the bolt the extractor should remove the loaded shell but it doesn't. I am thinking the bolt never fully clsoed, that is why I hear the firing pin click, but nothing happens.

 

I have cleaned this thing from top to bottom, doesn't matter what mags I am using, it is something I am doing since it NEVER happens to my friend.

[docwade 3]

There is a lot of missing info. First, is this S12 without modification? If not, what mods have you performed? Details, details.

Just going by what you wrote though, It sounds like the bolt face is not engaging the rear of the shell and the bolt carrier not being able to go to full lock - which prevents a full strike by the hammer on the firing pin. Since this is the first round in the magazine, if the weapon is relatively new, this problem that only you and not your friend are having is likely due to excessive drag from parts moving over shell #2 in the magazine as well as the rails. The bolt should have enough force behind it during chambering to push the extractor over the base of shell #1 and the extractor cutout at the breech face. Since the extractor is not engaging the end of shell #1 to extract it, you should also see a large gap between the trunnion and the bolt carrier (just ahead of the charging handle. With the weapon unloaded, pop the top cover off, and you can see that the right bolt carrier shoulder should be in contact with the right trunnion (bolt carrier stop) on an empty chamber. SHort story, it sounds like you're not allowing the bolt and bolt carrier to ride forward with enough force since your friend does not exhibit the same problem.

 

If your S12 has a CSS puck (which I like), I have found that with bolth the MD arms plug and Tac47 autoplug, that the puck actually keeps the bolt carrier from fully riding forward (approx 1-1.5mm). This was remedied by grinding the puck extension to a custom length. This problem willl, of course, be dependent on the particular S12 and is by no means a criticism of the parts mentioned. Like I said, I need more info.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

These things are Russian, you aren't going to hurt them. Jerk that charging handle all of the way to the rear and let go!

[YOT 3,743]

Next time "nothing happens", before trying to hand cycle it, take the receiver cover off and make sure the hammer reset.

[Anathoth 4]

Have you noticed if this occurs when using shells left in the magazine vs fresh?

[G O B 3,516]

Pull that bolt back until it stops and then let it fly. The ejector claw is not snapping over the rim because you are short stroking it.

[m4bgringo 0]

I have the MD Arms gas plug in it, that is the only thing non-stock.

 

I was playing around with it tonight, just pulling the bolt all the way back and letting it go. It did not always close 100%. (No ammo or magazines were in the gun).

 

Next time I use the gun in competition I will push the bolt shut. It has to be the way I am handling the gun. I never had this issue in the past, but the last two competitions (knockdown steel) I had the same problem and my friend had no problems. He is a lefty, I am a righty. Neither of us could understand the problem.

 

I hold the butstock against my thigh, pull the bolt open with my right trigger finger and use my left hand to unload a mag and load another one in. I then let go of the bolt, aim the gun, and pull the trigger. Sometimes it is fine. other times click, drop the mag, either fire the shell in the chamber or get rid of everything and load another mag. Sometimes the next mag will do the same damn thing..........

 

I can't blame the gun, it only screws-up on me. It also shows you that not all guns are as reliable as they should be. I know short-stroking the KSG and Rem 870's give you issues too, but at least with those guns I am not relying on a spring to close the action, I know I have to do it and I never have troubles with those guns.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

You mention this gun has been used in competition, how many rounds through it?

Most likely it is probably time to replace the recoil springs.

 

Also, check your extractor for wear/damage.

And I'd disassemble the bolt and inspect the pin/striker & spring.

[BlackNet 10]

Few things to check, Move the bolt carrier SLOWLY from closed to fully open back to close. What you are looking for is rough spots and hangups. It would appear you have some major spots at the last few inches which is likely the bolt and ammo being used. Might want to clean that thing very good, esp where the joint is at and make sure it does twist good.

 

Next time this condition happens notice where the carrier is located at and if indeed it is fully closed. Also clean around the chamber very good, i.e. bronze brush and some good cleaner. Flip it upside down so you are looking into the mag well from the bottom and check the upper section of the barrel. Bet you will find some crud on there.

 

As for ammo, when it does this again eject the shell and check it over real good. You are likely to have a big bur on the rim that is preventing it from fully seating in the chamber. This could be caused from the ammo itself or from rough spots in the loading cycle.

 

It really sounds like it's very dirty and needs a good cleaning, good stiff brush and some bore cleaner or other solvent works wonders.

[m4bgringo 0]

I cleaned this baby good! Had it apart 100%. I only shoot #7 1/2 through it (after breaking it in with 50 rounds of #00 with the gas setting on 1).

 

I used it once for competition, it was perfect. The next two times, I had problems with it, my friend did not. We shot back to back. I shot first, then him in one event, then I made him go before me at the next event. It ran flawless for him, not for me. It is something I am doing.

 

I found it odd that it did not eject the shell when I opened the action, that leads me to believe the action never fully closed. Extractor looks perfect.

 

The action will stop before it is fully closed if I hold it a little bit, or don't bring it back far enough. I think I have 500 rounds through the gun, if that. Maybe the spring is a little weak, maybe I don't bring the action back all the way (but I am pretty sure I do). I will ride the action closed next time so I know for sure it didn't stop short.

[leadsled 40]

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1040/Tromix-Saiga-Ak47-extended/Detail

 

Sounds like you may be accidently riding the charging handle. Get one of these handles so you can pull your hand off quickly after you violently pull the charging handle to the rear.

[ShadowFire 220]

Yes it maybe that you are riding the handle. Mine won't close all the way either if I ride it just goofing around.

 

It is based on the AK-47, so with that in mind the US Army field manual for the AK says do not ride the charging handle. Try that first.

 

These suckers are like a freaky girl friend, they like the rough stuff.

 

What you do is when you pull it hard straight to the rear, you literally let go of the handle. It goes screaming back to the front trunnion like it's supposed to and it'll prolly be ok.

[BlackNet 10]

I cleaned this baby good! Had it apart 100%. I only shoot #7 1/2 through it (after breaking it in with 50 rounds of #00 with the gas setting on 1).

 

I used it once for competition, it was perfect. The next two times, I had problems with it, my friend did not. We shot back to back. I shot first, then him in one event, then I made him go before me at the next event. It ran flawless for him, not for me. It is something I am doing.

 

I found it odd that it did not eject the shell when I opened the action, that leads me to believe the action never fully closed. Extractor looks perfect.

 

The action will stop before it is fully closed if I hold it a little bit, or don't bring it back far enough. I think I have 500 rounds through the gun, if that. Maybe the spring is a little weak, maybe I don't bring the action back all the way (but I am pretty sure I do). I will ride the action closed next time so I know for sure it didn't stop short.

 

Ok I misunderstood, I heard competition and thought many many many rounds but 500 is barely broke in. I posted in my http://forum.saiga-1...y-new-saiga-12/ post about this very same issue. The problem comes from post work cleanup. Many areas need some work, some more than others. Areas to look at: chamber loading ramp; Upper barrel ramp; Bolt lugs; Carrie rear ramp; Gas piston and tube.

 

As with any firearm the quality of the mechanics are directly related to how clean and smooth the parts are. If you have burs, rough surfaces and the like then well it will feel like sandpaper, jams, freezes, misfeeds, misfiring and everything else in the world in there. This has always been the downfall to the AK's.

Edited May 17, 2012 by BlackNet