esminbritt 16 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have heard a lot about this whole: you need to have x amount of parts switched to U.S. parts befor being able to do certain things with your rifle (i.e. larger capacity mags, etc) This all seems very confusing . I mean, it will be easy enough to add U.S. parts, but is this for safety of just regulatory B.S? Help me out here fellas. i realize that my numbers are probably wrong. I live in Michigan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Just click on this link and fill out the auto check list. It'll make things ALOT less confusing for you. http://jobson.us/922r/ Section 922r 922r is the section of law which relates to assembling or modifying semi-automatic weapons, such as AK and SKS type rifles. This is my understanding of the law after reading the law and several people's descriptions of it. I am not a lawyer, so take this interpretation as such; if you want the actual definition, please consult a lawyer. 922r is defined under U.S. Code - Title 18 - Part 1 - Chapter 44 - § 922 ® It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to — (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General. So, what does that mean? Simply: You may only use 10-or-fewer foreign made parts. This work is heavily based on Dinzag's Parts Count article. It is loosely based on another 922r Worksheet, which seems to have disappeared. Links Dinzag's Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles U.S. Code - Title 18 - Part I - Chapter 44 - § 922 Contact My handle is vbrtrmn on various gun forums including Saiga 12 Forum, GunCo.net, Virginia Gun Forum, and several others. I check private messages on those forums frequently. Notice Unfortunately, I need to say this... If you would like to copy this tool or "mirror" it please drop me a line. Corrections & Updates If you find any mistakes, which I am prone to making, please let me know. 01-January-2010 - Initial release. 09-January-2010 - Removed rear trunion, per nalioth, the Saiga firearms do not have this part. Edited May 23, 2012 by AZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Stock rifle parts count is 14 as imported counting the magazine with the rifle. Magazines are 3 parts, so you really only need to get rid of one more foreign part to be legal. If you plan to move your trigger forward and add a pistol grip, then I'd suggest using US made stocks and trigger part. Then you will be legal with the factory magazine as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Let's be very careful here as there is a good change this gentleman is actually a friendly, knowledgeable, kind, gentle, smart BATFE agent seeing how much we know about the law and stuff and checking us out to see if we would gripe about 9.22® since it is a very shiety law sooss there. HB of CJ (old coot) .....All 9.22® rules apply. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Good thinking. But I ain't the fuzz. I'm the Head Chef for a sorority in Ann Arbor Michigan. An agent probably makes better coin, so I might be willing to switch, 'cept for them girls. Man, it's nice scenery around my kitchen. But I digress, I obviously want to stay within the law, but what about this whole "sporting" business? If I get down to 10 imported parts, which I'm sure I'll need carry paperwork with me as proof unless their stamped, will my 20 round mag be considered unsporting=illegal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 but what about this whole "sporting" business? If I get down to 10 imported parts, which I'm sure I'll need carry paperwork with me as proof unless their stamped, will my 20 round mag be considered unsporting=illegal? You need 10 or fewer imported parts to be legal. Example, 14 on a rifle with mag in serted counting as 3, replace the fire control group with us made fcg, thats 3, and replace the stock with a US made stock and thats 1 more compliance part = 4 -14 = 10 foreign parts. Then you may use Hi capacity mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Ok. I get it. but how do I prove they are U.S. made parts? I just got a folding stock hinge from Bonesteel and it isn't stamped "Made In the USA or anything) By the way, does anyone know of a good stock that will fit that hinge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think most of the mag parts are marked.. I know ours are marked on each of the counted parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 I'm panning on getting my hi cap. mags from you. Steel seems like a good choice to me. The folding hinge probably doesn't count as on of the 10 parts since it's optional. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 just remember its not about the ADDING of USA MADE, but of the removal of foreign.... to a final count of 10 or fewer. ADDING a muzzle brake from USA on a rifle that didnt have one, does NOTHING to help parts count... just as an example... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Replace your stock, trigger group and buy CSSpecs mags and then you will be set. He is also planning (according to his forum) to begin making replacement compliance parts for the factory mag. You can also go with handguards and gas piston if you want to be REALLY safe. As has been stated, make sure you are REPLACING and not adding parts. Pistol grips werent on there so they wont help you replace, neither will a new muzzle device. The links in this thread (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/32197-922-r-compliance-automatic-checklist/) stickied by Indy can really help you a lot if you get confused by what counts and doesnt. Good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Thank you all. It's beginning to make sense now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 He's obviously not a fed. A fed would say "Hey, can somebody pm me the instructions for converting a Saiga to full auto?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Full auto doesn't much interest me. I'm more of a controlled shot placement guy. If I just wanted to point and spray volume as opposed to aim and execute from far off, I would just get 5.56 or a .223 or even a 7.62x39. I'm a hunter. Quantity not quality. And yes, I know this is not an ideal hunting rifle. That's what my bolt action is for. But I got the Saiga as a workhorse and a SHTF backup. I like the AK platform for the same reason I like my Glock. I like stuff that will still fire if it's full of mud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hey, can somebody pm me the instructions for converting a Saiga to full auto? Not that I'm going to do it of course. I just like to know how things work. Is that illegal yet? I dont know, did the BATFE grow a sense of humor? ...Hmmm... ...nope still a bunch of pricks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Machine guns are a simple thing. They work the same as some nail gun trigger packs and most of the old auto CO2 paintball guns. They have a mech that releases the disconnect when the bolt reaches full battery.. Of course the same mod if done incorrectly would stop the bolt before it was fully closed and also release the hammer, which would result in one or more uncontrolled out of battery shots. That could injure or kill the operator. SO I'd suggest that even in a 'SHTF' situation, that you just leave the gun alone. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Machine guns are a simple thing. They work the same as some nail gun trigger packs and most of the old auto CO2 paintball guns. They have a mech that releases the disconnect when the bolt reaches full battery.. Of course the same mod if done incorrectly would stop the bolt before it was fully closed and also release the hammer, which would result in one or more uncontrolled out of battery shots. That could injure or kill the operator. SO I'd suggest that even in a 'SHTF' situation, that you just leave the gun alone. Agreed. Shot placement is key. I would rather be the guy in a tree selecting targets carefully than the guy who is blanketing the are with ill-placed full auto rounds, wasting ammo, and making himself a really obvious target. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 As expensive as .308 ammo is, you'd have to be rich to go full auto with it! Now, if'n I was rich, I'd buy a machine gun or twenty! LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 on milled reciever guns do the also have a front truinion. or is it one in the same as the reciever Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 for all those that want to know, all you have to do to convert your gun to full auto is remove your rear trunnion, recoil spring and dust cover, drill one big gas port about the size of a dime, chamber a round, strip down naked and place the rear of the receiver between your ass cheeks, as soon as you fire the round the gun will instantly be full auto 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 on milled reciever guns do the also have a front truinion. or is it one in the same as the reciever I think it's only considered one part. The trigger and sear on an AK are considered one part last I heard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
esminbritt 16 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 for all those that want to know, all you have to do to convert your gun to full auto is remove your rear trunnion, recoil spring and dust cover, drill one big gas port about the size of a dime, chamber a round, strip down naked and place the rear of the receiver between your ass cheeks, as soon as you fire the round the gun will instantly be full auto It works. I tried it. It also took care of a rhodent sized boil on my left ass cheek. Two birds... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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