pfbz 3 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Picked up a new Saiga 12 recently and took it out for some function testing today... New Saiga-12 RWC IZ-109 Approval stamp January 27, 2012. Fresh out of box, 100% stock, even lubed as it came from the factory. Probed with dental pick and found four gas holes. Slight amount of debris knocked out of holes with dental pick. Test 1: Factory magazine. Five rounds of Federal Premium 00 Buckshot, 2-3/4", 1,325 FPS. Gas adjuster turned all the way in, to gas setting 1. Results: Round 1, FTE. Manually eject. Round 2, FTE. Manually eject. ** Rotate gas adjuster out 1 full turn, still on gas setting 1, reload magazine. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Perfect feed/fire/eject. Test 2: SGM Tactical 10 round magazine (new) Ten rounds of Federal rifled slugs, 1 oz, 2-3/4", 1,610 FPS. Gas adjuster remains in setting 1, 1 turn out from full in. Results: 1-10. Perfect feed/fire/eject. Test 3: SGM Tactical 10 round magazine. Ten rounds of Federal 7.5 shot, high brass, 2-3/4", 1,330 FPS. Gas adjuster remains in setting 1, 1 turn out from full in. Results: 1-10. Perfect feed/fire/eject. Test 4: SGM Tactical 10 round magazine. Ten rounds of Federal 'target load' 7.5 shot, low brass, 2-3/4", 1,145 FPS. Gas adjuster remains in setting 1, 1 turn out from full in. Results: Round 1, FTE. Manually eject. ** Rotate gas adjuster out 1/2 turn to gas setting 2. 2-10. Perfect feed/fire/eject. Conclusions for all tested ammo: My stock S-12 doesn't run at all with gas adjuster fully seated in postion 1. Runs perfectly with buckshot, slugs, and high-brass in one-out position 1. Runs perfectly with low brass target load with gas adjuster on two. Obviously there are many other types/brands of ammo to try, but I wanted to 'proof' the gun before I started doing mods. First rounds will be a Phoenix kick light stock, Ergo grip, quad rail front, full trigger relocation/conversion, and a DPH brake/breach. Edited June 30, 2012 by pfbz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Bravo! Way to go man. If everyone would go to even half that much effort when first getting a NIB S-12, before changing it all around by bolting on everything they could do quick & easy without much work..... then people would learn to understand what they have to work with, and not be so dumbfounded when it won't cycle. BTW thank you for sharing your stats with the forum. It's posts like this that truly build this place up, and add useful info for others to follow. It sounds like you were fortunate and got a winner, with 4 ports. That and the little extension nub it has on the end of the barrel hood should keep it running pretty well as long as the proper precautions are taken with the conversion. (one of course being the hammer re-profiling and polish) As long as you do that, and the quad doesn't cause any issues, it will be a great shotgun. A lot of these newer guns over the past few years won't even run the Federal 2,000 FPS 7.5 loads. Yours already running the 1145 is great. If I can make one quick suggestion though, you may want to do everything except swapping the stock out, and test that out with the light loads first, before putting the Kicklite on there, just for a good rigid stock function check. Then if it gags on the 1145 you will know it's only the recoil reducing stock causing the prob if it cycles ok with the factory stock and added mods. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Wow I was doing the exact same thing with mine when it was brand new and got very similar results as you did. Good write up and hopefully many people will learn from this. Happy shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Great job and thanks for posting this!! I agree with Shannon 100%. I was tempted to post my results last week, but decided not to because no one fucking listens to me anyway. I have broken in both my S12s the exact same way...200rds of bulk bird on setting 2. And they both experienced FTE for the first 75-100rds, but after that, they run 100%. AND that is without changing a damn thing, bone-stock. One just has to have patience and manually eject those spent shells until it is broken in. I was very reluctant to convert my first S12 three years ago, but I did. The new one will stay sporty. One of each....personal preference. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavidal 5 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thanks for sharing that info. I just checked my certificate and mine was born on the same day so I hope I am as lucky as you. Have to wail till the spouse gets better before I can go out in the field to test. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfbz 3 Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE A WINNER!!! The S12 is definitely a winner. I debated between getting the new build RWC S12 or a new old-stock EAA S12. Glad I went for the new one! But I'm still sorting out some minor issues with my newly converted Saiga 7.62. The front sight post is pushed pretty far to the right to be zero'ed, and the rear sight has some spring-loaded wiggle to it. Sounds like it isn't an uncommon issue, but if I can tweak the rear sight into better alignment or get rid of the wiggle, I'd be a bit happier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The first time I took my S12 out, I took a bunch of old shells with me. Had a bunch of slugs I had collected over the years, some from the 70ties. Shot up a hundred slugs that day. Recoil was very light. Normally, after 5 shots or so with slugs with a pump 12ga Im ready to put it down for the day. Sights were right on at 50 yards. Set up some quart sized plastic jugs at 100 yards and was able to hit them from the standing position. No malfunctions at all, from the factory mags. Later, only had to change the setting to get function with any ammo. I would say at least 100 rounds as a break in for the S12. Probably best to use a heavy load. JMHO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 "I would say at least 100 rounds as a break in for the S12. Probably best to use a heavy load. JMHO" It can be done with low brass at 200rds. Mine stopped FTE at 100. Cheaper too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegade331 31 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 "I would say at least 100 rounds as a break in for the S12. Probably best to use a heavy load. JMHO" It can be done with low brass at 200rds. Mine stopped FTE at 100. Cheaper too. Why not just reprofile your carrier and enlarge your ports? A drill bit and some dremel attachments are cheaper than wasting a bunch on money on game loads and slugs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 "I would say at least 100 rounds as a break in for the S12. Probably best to use a heavy load. JMHO" It can be done with low brass at 200rds. Mine stopped FTE at 100. Cheaper too. Why not just reprofile your carrier and enlarge your ports? A drill bit and some dremel attachments are cheaper than wasting a bunch on money on game loads and slugs. I know there are 2 different schools of thought on this but here is my opinion. I would break it in a little before doing all that. Both of my guns shot 100 percent better after 200 rounds or so. My last S12 shot like crap,and now it shoots regular buckshot loads 2 3/4 on the lowest MD arms setting. This happened out of the blue. It literally went from shooting buck shot on setting 4, to shooting buckshot on the "-" setting on the V Plug. Thats a huge jump. Now, if I had opened up the ports prior to that I would be concerned that my gun would now be overgassed. As time goes by the rails, hammer, bottom of the carrier will wear and the weapon will operate better. If you plan on shooting mainly bird shot loads, I can see overhauling the gas system, but after what I experienced, enlarging the ports off the bat would have been a bad choice. Bottom line, I wouldn't enlarge my ports knowing that the weapon is going to cycle better with time (usually in my experience). Now since I have limited outside knowledge on this weapon, I could be wrong. The professionals on this forum know these weapons inside and out and each one is different. But they know better than I do where that threshold is between operating reliably and without undue stress on the gun over time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 "I would say at least 100 rounds as a break in for the S12. Probably best to use a heavy load. JMHO" It can be done with low brass at 200rds. Mine stopped FTE at 100. Cheaper too. Why not just reprofile your carrier and enlarge your ports? A drill bit and some dremel attachments are cheaper than wasting a bunch on money on game loads and slugs. I know there are 2 different schools of thought on this but here is my opinion. I would break it in a little before doing all that. Both of my guns shot 100 percent better after 200 rounds or so. My last S12 shot like crap,and now it shoots regular buckshot loads 2 3/4 on the lowest MD arms setting. This happened out of the blue. It literally went from shooting buck shot on setting 4, to shooting buckshot on the "-" setting on the V Plug. Thats a huge jump. Now, if I had opened up the ports prior to that I would be concerned that my gun would now be overgassed. As time goes by the rails, hammer, bottom of the carrier will wear and the weapon will operate better. If you plan on shooting mainly bird shot loads, I can see overhauling the gas system, but after what I experienced, enlarging the ports off the bat would have been a bad choice. I couldn't agree more! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I shot mine for the first time this past weekend...I am running a Dinzag gas tube mod with the stock gas plug and regulator. I cleaned up the 4 gas ports without drilling them out bigger. I did slightly enlarge the hole in the gas block to make sure all four ports were accessible. I also used AK fire control parts and had to reprofile the trigger to match the Saiga trigger. I rubbed the bolt carrier assembly, trigger group and rails with a scotch bright pad to slick everything up (no polishing though) The gun was new before the conversion...I wished I fired it like the OP did before breaking it down, just out of curiosity. I did try a variety of ammo in 2-3/4" and 3": The 3" 000 buck and #4 shot definitely cycled great...even with the gas plug screwed all the way in on #1 it was still kicking like a mule. Definitely won't be shooting much of those...not worth the sore shoulder... The other buckshot and slug loads cycled fine on #1. The low recoil LE, Remingtom Nitro and Winchester high velocity game loads needed to be on #2 to cycle ok. The Universal wouldn't cycle in #2...had to manually eject each one...didn't think about backing out the regulator a couple of turns like the OP did...will do that before any further mods. Not complaining, since it is a new gun and hasn't been broken in...don't want to mess with the gas ports since the other ammo works fine. I did cut about 4" off the barrel and installed a Poly Choke/flash hider to make 18"...maybe that could've affected the gas flow and might require opening the ports a little to compensate...not sure what barrel length requires a gas port mod...any thoughts on that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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