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Hey Z1500, any 10 round prototypes to test yet?

pedal2alloy

By pedal2alloy,
in Saiga-12

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Veen

Veen 0

Posted
Posted

I'd totally be willing to pay shipping for a prototype to test to your specifications. Here in Washington with our frigid winters, craptons of rain, forests that shed leaves and bramble and crap all over, and plenty of dirt that gets into anything. Plus I've got a big truck I can run the thing over if you want to test that sort of durability.

 

I'm eager to get my hands on one of these, and I'd even be willing to return the prototype, once more at my expense, if that was called for.

 

I guess a man can dream. :(

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  • 4 weeks later...
Z1500

Z1500 0

Posted
Posted

Oh that. I gave up on the whole project. It's just vaporware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J/K!!!

Suffered about 4 weeks worth of setback with the CAD guy trying to make it too cool. Huge waste of time. When I get my time machine done I'll go back and fix that first thing. Everything is back rolling again now. Sorry for the delay, I somehow doubt it will be the only one.

 

Kevin

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Griz

Griz 1

Posted
Posted

:angel::angel:

 

Oh [slowly unloading his saiga 12, his XD9 Tactical and the 37mm Anti-tank cannon he picked up as a

youth in 1962] that's good to know.

 

 

 

 

OKAY GUYS!! HE WAS JUST KIDDING!!!!

 

 

"sounds of an angry mob calming and standing down."

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Veen

Veen 0

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Posted (edited)
The thing with injection molding is prototype is done with almost not gap to finnished product. First part pops out of the mold and is tested. If it works 1000 more are molded the next day.

 

Kevin

 

I think the question more at the front of people's minds is, "How close are you to a WORKING prototype?" Lots of us (like me) have a bunch of cash set aside ready to blow once you declare production. Hell, I'm sure lots of us would gladly pay for an experimental prototype. I know I would.

Edited by Veen
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Madmartigan

Madmartigan 0

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am not trying to be a wet towel or nothing.

But Are you sure you want to make a 10rd mag?

Do you know what will happen if you do?

Hell 8's are illegal in half the states anyway.

Some states wont let you have higher then 3.

I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart.

 

That goes for everyone. Please. If you live in a area like mine. The police will check your mags. And they think they are right about everything. So before you go out and buy a 8rd mag or if you own a 8rd mag. Please be sure you are not in violation of the law. Soon my website will be up and I will have a refernce of the state laws regarding magazines. i am lucky the magazine ban was repealed in illinois at the begining of this year. So I can own up to 8rd mags.

I will not sell my mags to anyone that would be in violation to their states laws. I dont think you should either.

The BATFE will check your records.. Trust me.

 

 

Thats all I have to say.

feel free to bash me all you want. i am just doing the right thing by getting the info out.

Dont ask me to defend myself as i will not. i spent countless hours wasting time and money to have this info.

i offer it to you for free.

 

(A warning) anyone that bashes me will not be allowed on my preorder list.

Edited by Madmartigan
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Veen

Veen 0

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Posted
I am not trying to be a wet towel or nothing.

But Are you sure you want to make a 10rd mag?

Do you know what will happen if you do?

Hell 8's are illegal in half the states anyway.

Some states wont let you have higher then 3.

I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart.

 

That goes for everyone. Please. If you live in a area like mine. The police will check your mags. And they think they are right about everything. So before you go out and buy a 8rd mag or if you own a 8rd mag. Please be sure you are not in violation of the law. Soon my website will be up and I will have a refernce of the state laws regarding magazines. i am lucky the magazine ban was repealed in illinois at the begining of this year. So I can own up to 8rd mags.

I will not sell my mags to anyone that would be in violation to their states laws. I dont think you should either.

The BATFE will check your records.. Trust me.

 

 

Thats all I have to say.

feel free to bash me all you want. i am just doing the right thing by getting the info out.

Dont ask me to defend myself as i will not. i spent countless hours wasting time and money to have this info.

i offer it to you for free.

 

(A warning) anyone that bashes me will not be allowed on my preorder list.

 

Uh..... allow me to be the first to say... "Whaaaat?!" Allow me to touch on this.

 

"Some states wont let you have higher then 3.

I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart."

 

You're referring to hunting. Most states limit you to three rounds so you don't just spray lead at deer. The only states that would limit the rounds on a shotgun used outside of season are places like California that have their own AWB in place (and especially in California, the Saiga is illegal anyway, being based off the AK action, so it's a moot point). You have to remember that the Clinton AWB passed recently, and is no longer in effect. If you had a 50 round magazine, it'd STILL be just fine and dandy.\

 

"That goes for everyone. Please. If you live in a area like mine. The police will check your mags. And they think they are right about everything. So before you go out and buy a 8rd mag or if you own a 8rd mag. Please be sure you are not in violation of the law."

 

Where do you live? Nazi Germany? Since when do police come by your door and "check your mags?" Even in places like California, I've never heard of police just dropping by to check your magazines, or even stopping people at the range and saying, "I'm sorry, is that magazine within accordance to state law?" I have more than a few friends who have firearms that wouldn't pass California's AWB and they shoot at the range with off duty police all the time with no problems. Also, quick note on the whole state AWB thing, most limit mag capacity at 10, so there's NOTHING wrong with an 8 rounder, or even a 10 rounder.

 

"I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart."

 

Uhm, the shotgun ITSELF is designated as a Destructive Device by the ATF. The thing about a shotgun is the bore is bigger than .5 inches, so it's already a destructive device, unless exempted by the ATF. The Saiga-12 and Saiga-20 are BOTH completely legal to sell and own in the United States of America, unless like already said, your state bans the gun because of it's own AWB, in which case, once more, this whole magazine thing is a moot point.

 

Not bashing you here, I just don't think you quite comprehend the laws of "half the states." I can think of MAYBE three states that would actually ban a 10 round magazine, be it for a shotgun, rifle, pistol, or any sort of firearm, and in two of them I'm pretty sure the Saiga shotguns are banned by name. Unless you're talking about taking an unplugged 10 round magazine hunting, in which case yeah, you're going to be discussing the fact with a very mad and very pissed off game warden. That still has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on what you do with the shotgun when you're not hunting. The fact of the matter is that the Saiga-12 is a legal firearm to own, was specified by name as NOT a destructive device, and it doesn't matter WHAT magazine you hook up to it. If it's legal in your area to own, it's going to be legal to hook up a 2 rounder, a 5 rounder, an 8 rounder, a 10 rounder, and if somebody developed a Beta-C magazine for the Saiga-12, that too would be legal.

 

The BATF threw a bit of a hissy fit about IMPORTING 8 round magazines, hence why they're so hard to find and so expensive to purchase currently (due to no state side providers) but they have no say on producing them stateside. If it's made here in the U.S., it can be traded here in the U.S., and with the exception of maybe three states, it can be installed in the U.S.. Just slapping a high capacity magazine doesn't make it a destructive device, and more importantly, even if it did, the definition of "high capacity" in the more restrictive states is still OVER 10, so a 10 round magazine is more than legal.

 

I know the BATF is a scary group of people, and terms like "922r" and "Destructive Device" tend to scare some, but it's not nearly as bad as some of you people make it out to be. Make your magazines if you have the ability to, and feel free to sell them. Nobody's going to come knocking at your door for it, because in roughly 94% of the country, a 10rd Saiga shotgun magazine would be perfectly legal to purchase, possess, and install. Even in that extra 6%, it'd still be legal to purchase the magazine as it's not a controlled item. You could sell them off to someone in California, and you'd be free and clear. The person who bought the magazine would be in deep shit if they installed it on a Saiga-12 there (for possession of the California illegal firearm, NOT because of your magazine), but it would NOT come back on you.

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Rowdy1124

Rowdy1124 0

Posted
Posted

I'll bite.

 

Most state laws regarding magazine capacity are directed toward state regulated activity (ie hunting). By the federal gov't not restricting the magazine, i feel that the BATF will stay off your case, and at worst, you have to deal with a local sheriff. If those guys aren't cool, fine, but there are many of us who have no problem with ownership, purchase or sale of these mags in our region. There are even a lucky few located outside the US who can get all sorts of crazy shit for lack of BATF.

 

So i think this discussion is worthy of continuation on at least a theoretical note, if not a distribution point for the finished mags.

 

dammit, got one up'ed by Veen

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kmoore

kmoore 3

Posted
Posted
I am not trying to be a wet towel or nothing.

 

Why is it that people who say this don't mean it.

 

Thats all I have to say.

 

Good

 

feel free to bash me all you want. i am just doing the right thing by getting the info out.

 

No, you've merely spread rumors, I haven't seen any info yet. Oh, and BTW, Setting you straight on facts is not "bash" ing, it's ..... Setting you straight on facts.

 

Dont ask me to defend myself as i will not. i spent countless hours wasting time and money to have this info.

 

Here's the deal. IF you spent countless hours, and didn't document what you've found, you've WASTED countless hours. Most law is a matter of interpretation (CERTAINLY DD status and Sporting Purpose status is, the heart of this matter). So to come in here and state "facts" that you don't want to quote. I like to prove points by the extreme, so I'll say this. I've done a lot of research. Water Will kill you! It doesn't take very much either. Please, stay away from water. Don't ask me for my research, I've done A BUNCH but don't have time to fill you in. For your life's sake, stay away from water. ***

 

(A warning) anyone that bashes me will not be allowed on my preorder list.

 

So much to say about this one.

 

A. Did this even bother you to type? Hmmmm last time I heard that it was of the form "If you don't like my rules, I'll take my ball and go home."

B. I'm very worried about not being on a list I know nothing about.

C. I'll only sell to customers who won't express their opinion?

D. From the drivel that you've posted to date, I think this would be a mutually beneficial arrangement. I don't want to be on that list, and you don't want me there. If you put as much attention to detail in whatever mags you are creating as you have to your research, then I'll pass.

E. And lastly, I don't feel like bashing you, but could you take me off that list (if I'm on it).

 

 

*** I can't just let my water comment stand. Kids can drown in a bucket with just a few inches of water in the bottom. If you inject pure water instead of saline (I don't know the dosage) to rehydrate someone, it is not good. If you drown, the amount of water that enters your lungs is not large, so really a couple of quarts is all it took. Lastly, there are lots of places with "do not drink the water" signs. See, there really is evidence that water IS dangerous.

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Ronswin

Ronswin 26

Posted
Posted (edited)
I am not trying to be a wet towel or nothing.

But Are you sure you want to make a 10rd mag?

Do you know what will happen if you do?

Hell 8's are illegal in half the states anyway.

Some states wont let you have higher then 3.

I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart.

 

That goes for everyone. Please. If you live in a area like mine. The police will check your mags. And they think they are right about everything. So before you go out and buy a 8rd mag or if you own a 8rd mag. Please be sure you are not in violation of the law. Soon my website will be up and I will have a refernce of the state laws regarding magazines. i am lucky the magazine ban was repealed in illinois at the begining of this year. So I can own up to 8rd mags.

I will not sell my mags to anyone that would be in violation to their states laws. I dont think you should either.

The BATFE will check your records.. Trust me.

 

 

Thats all I have to say.

 

 

 

 

 

feel free to bash me all you want. i am just doing the right thing by getting the info out.

Dont ask me to defend myself as i will not. i spent countless hours wasting time and money to have this info.

 

 

 

 

i offer it to you for free.

 

(A warning) anyone that bashes me will not be allowed on my preorder list.

 

 

You're wrong on most of the points above!! (no bashing intended mind you) Am I still on a list??!!

 

RonSwin

Edited by Ronswin
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Z1500

Z1500 0

Posted
Posted
I am not trying to be a wet towel or nothing.

But Are you sure you want to make a 10rd mag?

Do you know what will happen if you do?

Hell 8's are illegal in half the states anyway.

Some states wont let you have higher then 3.

I am willing to bet that 10 would be ilegal in your state as well as by BATFE.. It is a class 3 item anyhow. Same thing as making a machine gun, Making a illegal DD. Not smart.

 

That goes for everyone. Please. If you live in a area like mine. The police will check your mags. And they think they are right about everything. So before you go out and buy a 8rd mag or if you own a 8rd mag. Please be sure you are not in violation of the law. Soon my website will be up and I will have a refernce of the state laws regarding magazines. i am lucky the magazine ban was repealed in illinois at the begining of this year. So I can own up to 8rd mags.

I will not sell my mags to anyone that would be in violation to their states laws. I dont think you should either.

The BATFE will check your records.. Trust me.

 

Wow, thank you sooo much. You came to our rescue. You're my HERO :haha:

Only now in this late hour do I see the folly of my ways. :lolol:

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6500rpm

6500rpm 670

Posted
Posted (edited)

Z-YOUR OFF THE LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ded:

 

BTW Madmartigan, why the hell would you post in the for sale section earlier today that you want to buy 5,8, and 10 round mags because "yours were stolen", only to slam Z an hour later for wanting to produce them??? Most of the time when someone tells me I'm on there list, it's not a good thing. If you want me off yours, feel free. My moneys good elsewhere.

Edited by 6500rpm
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shaneman153a

shaneman153a 39

Posted
Posted

Man, you're a real pee-hole.

 

That is not a good way to get buyers on board in this forum, by slamming another guy's product, and telling everyone it's illegal, then threatening your interested buyers (Who's that again?). I can't speak for everyone, but a whole lot of people have been on board with Z from the start, and I think that means he carries more credibility here. Maybe other members know you from a different board, but I sure the hell don't, and I am gonna slam you for that, and ask for references backing up your claims.

 

BTW, in your defense, I think I once read a post by Bvamp saying he couldn't posess anything over 5 rounds (NY). Well I'm in Texas, and my concious is clean, sign me up Z!

 

Only now in this late hour do I see the folly of my ways. :lolol:

 

 

BTW Z, I know where you got this line from, but I won't tell.........

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expeditionx

expeditionx 1

Posted
Posted

I think all the gun laws that I have seen or heard about are stupid.

I am glad for new developements in firearm technology.

 

The one potential thing that may happen regarding saiga shotguns at least the 12 and 20s is this.

The contact person from RAA already stated that they cant import 8 round mags for the saiga12 because if they do they ATF has threatened to declare the saiga shot guns a DD. The minute new 10 round detachable shotgun magazines start circulating the ATF may make good on their threat.

RAA would be stuck with alot of hard to sell DD's. Attorneys would probably point to the magazine manufacturer as the cause of loss of assets. RAA may sue whomever ruins their ability to profit from saiga shotgun sales.

 

Larry the marketing director at knoxx pointed out in an email that they informed jeff at stoney creek of the implications of adapting a knoxx drum for the saiga. Jeff at stoney creek armory wanted to create such a thing but when he found out what may result because of that he gave up on that short term profit idea.

New circulation of saiga 12/20 mags over 5 rounds = potential DD.

Atf does not care if your saiga is 922 compliant to the them detachable shot gun mags over 5 rounds = new show on 60 minutes "The new emerging threat of assult shotguns-why is the ATF allowing civilians to own the most powerful automatic shoulder fired weapons".

 

I wish it wasnt this way but gun haters seem to migrate towards journalism.

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ditchdigger

ditchdigger 0

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know in my state the only time shotgun(or any gun) ammo capacity is limited is when waterfowl hunting. If I get a wild hair I can legally hunt deer with my 100rd drum locked into my 7.62 or Z's 10rd mag full of slugs in my s-12. I don't know wich state Z is in but if they let him manufacture I'll be buying.

Edited by ditchdigger
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