mikego_34 1 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Just set up a kushnapup style saiga and was debating on wheter I should put optics on it. Started thinking about just possiblly mounting a flashlight on the side picatiny rails and using that as a reference as to where the shotgun will shoot instead of setting it up with the optics, what do you all think about that? If you all think that a flashlight would be effective instead of an optics system, which if any tactical flashlights have enough lumens to be able to see outside so that i don't have to buy optics at all. Thanks in Advance Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hi Mike A light that casts a wide enough beam to ID your target will probably spread too much beyond 20 or 30 feet to be an aiming point by itself. You'll still want to aim. You don't need optics to do that though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mike, If you are within 10 feet of your target it might work. But I would question how you get it "sighted in" which would still be necessary. Also this would relegate your KPUP S 12 to very limited nIght time home defense situations. You couldn't use it at the range in the daytime and where is the fun in that? There are plenty of cheap optics that will function well, and as far as mounting, I just (know I will get crap for this) JB welded a section of picatinney rail on the gas tube. It looks factory and has held up well to recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 JB WELD? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Dirty word on this Forum I know, but Im not buying the Ultimak until it fails, and so far that ain't happened:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GREYLUPO 358 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Dirty word on this Forum I know, but Im not buying the Ultimak until it fails, and so far that ain't happened:) Maybe itll fail when you actually need it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Dirty word on this Forum I know, but Im not buying the Ultimak until it fails, and so far that ain't happened:) Maybe itll fail when you actually need it. Somehow I knew what I was in for. To the op if you need to do it cheap, properly prepare the surfaces and JB weld the rail onto the gas tube. If you would like to spend the 100 bucks immediately so it doesn't fail when your are fighting terrorists or zombies buy the Ultimak or Samson mount. If my KPup fails at the range, I will put it away and pull out the next toy. I will then repair it at my leisure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Isn't this what lasers are for??? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 LOL...and lasers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mock the lasers all you want, but mine is bright enough to ID the target and pretty much blind him. Further it is not so bright as to blind me with the splash light or ruing my night vision. When I look through the sights the dot sort of makes a halo around my front sight post. I am sold on it, and most any one who has tried it on my gun loves it. It is also a great way of declaring intent and changing people's minds. Anything that makes it so you are less likely to need to pull the trigger is a plus. The fact that people shoot measurably better with lasers is a plus too. Learning to shoot well with lasers in no way detracts from traditional shooting skills, and enhances your awareness of your entire line of fire and what is beyond. A good green laser is visible in bright day light. In night you can often see the entire beam. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Have a green laser on the bedside S12, cheap NC Star. Has held up to the pounding at the range. Great at night. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salt1219 176 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I've used gunfun's laser, and what he says is true. You can see it very well during the day and if its pointed at you its blinding. It was his laser that made me get one for my 5.7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ARCHANGEL 104 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hi Mike. My opinion is the flash light using rudimentary sights is best. Unless you are using slugs this type of weapon is best used for closer ranges so optics are really not necessary. I'm not saying you do not have to aim, and you certainly do especially in the 1-7 yard and 21 yard-out range to keep pellets on target. If using this weapon at night a light is definitly the way to go. I've had great success with the Olight brand flash lights. They are very bright, illuminate out to 100 yard + distances, and can take the beating a Saiga can dish out. I like to use a pressure switch so I do not give away my position in cases where that would be detrimental. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 For the record, I was not mocking lasers. The LOL was because it was the obvious practical solution to the problem that somehow escaped me during my first post. I was laughing at my own stupidity. Lesson learned though, sometimes I should be sleeping instead of posting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 get a 35mw laser, little more $, but totally worth it. Beam is visible during the day in my house (not birght as hell, but still a plus) I mount the flashlight right in line with my barrel in front of my FSB, that way the only shadow is cast below my sight line. My light is the pistol type and doesn't impede my sight picture or vision. GunFun is correct. *thumbs up* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Oddly the ~$60 NC star green laser that is dimensionally similar to a flashlight has had a good track record with surviving heavy recoil and keeping zero. my pressure switch failed, but mounting to the underside of the front gas block made it redundant. Holding my forearm normally bumps my hand into the momentary cap switch. It is very natural, and doesn't require a specific intent to hit the button. I did a bunch of searching around, because I would have been willing to pay much more for a "good" one, and what I found was that many in the $150-250 price range were very good on pistols but were killed by many rifles and shotguns. Most are made for pistols and ARs even at high dollar points. One odd note, the laser survives recoil, but the negative side of the CR123 batteries get hammerded in a sixteenth or so by recoil. It killed the cheap battery that was supplied, but this was anticipated. Duracells keep working, but you have to trim off the ring of plastic sheathing around the bottom of the battery to ensure solid contact as the battery becomes compressed. I don't know if this is an issue for surefire batteries. Second note. I originally got a different mount for for mine, but hated the bulk and weight. I ended up using the supplied mount, but it would slip under recoil. So I drilled a couple of holes from the rail side and added set screws. Problem solved. mounting with scope rings could work too, but this mount is very light and small so I like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 having a recoil isolated battery FTW, so simple to do also make the body of the light sprung, have no idea how this eludes a lot of companies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I tried to get pictures, and ended up with pictures that make the view look terrible. These convey the opposite of the correct impression. The laser absolutely enhances the use of normal sights. Here's the pictures anyway. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=gallery Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I saw those on the home page and was like WTF hehe lemme have a look Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squishy 1,149 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Is it true that green lasers are more accurate than red ones? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I assume that is sarcasm. They are much more visible in any lighting condition. Red lasers in the <5mw range are not visible enough to be useful until after dusk. Pulsing are even better, but don't come cheap. I am excited that crimson trace is starting to offer green lasers now for some models. I love the laser grip on my pistol and it is wonderful any time there is dark or fog around, but it is no help at all in bright daylight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squishy 1,149 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Your assumption is correct. In fact, this is one time text comms worked out better because I'd never have been able to keep a straight face in person. But I have been looking at green lasers and like most other things, there's a pile of them to sift through. This and hearing protection like the Peltor line gives me a lot of research to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 mo batteries, mo problems yo! surefire flashlight will light up the night just fine. most of your shooting at night with a shotgun will be within 10 meters. Use buckshot and you will always win. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 What about those flashlight/laser combos? That seems like the best of both, and the strobe effect is really disorientating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 What about those flashlight/laser combos? That seems like the best of both, and the strobe effect is really disorientating. surefire = sure fire. dont think the laser is really needed on a shotgun, maybe a carbine. it's cqb 99 percent of the time. i wouldn't trust something made in china on a shotgun intended to kill bear breaking into my occupied home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 What about those flashlight/laser combos? That seems like the best of both, and the strobe effect is really disorientating. usually in those combos you sacrifice a lot with the laser in finetune aim adjustments, unless it's a pretty solidly mounted one, which I have yet to see. There are a few combo holo sights with lasers, sightmark is ok (I have a nonlaser one that has help up to 12 gauge abuse) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timy 1,185 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 mo batteries, mo problems yo! surefire flashlight will light up the night just fine. most of your shooting at night with a shotgun will be within 10 meters. Use buckshot and you will always win. Buckshot? I thought it was settled that birdshot was adequate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Ha, Ha Tim! I'm sure of my target and what is beyond! My neighbors wont mind if a little OO sprays their steel roof in the middle of the night. If they hear me shooting, they know it's for a good reason and usually come out to back me up! Birdshot is for city slickers with paper thin walls! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) IMO having the laser, I don't think the flashlight is needed on a shotgun. The laser does the job better. I listed the reasons above. It lights up the place enough to see everything clearly without destroying my own night vision. Also consider that knowing from any angle no matter how you are holding your gun exactly where that 3"-4" circle of shot will go is worthwhile, and better than generally. I good sighted shot from the shoulder is best, but this helps even without that luxury. Consider any situation where your assailant is partly obstructed. Are you certain all your pellets will be on him and him only? A laser gives instant visual confirmation, while keeping your eyes focused on the threat not your sights. If you are looking through your sights, the sights appear to be highlited. And you say mo batteries, mo problems? So what. If the thing doesn't even turn on, I am still sitting right in your shoes. I still have the irons. I've got a plus without any minus beyond 2 ounces of deadweight. I can see that argument having some meaning with a red dot or something like that where you have no sights with a dead battery, but it has no application to my setup. Try it, you will see. I don't keep a bunch of gimicky stuff, just things that make my system simpler, and more fool proof. Edited September 20, 2012 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) If you have a RDS cowitnessed properly and the battery goes tits up, you still have your irons to use. I thought we were talking about using a light not optics. I would opt for a good (Surefire) weapon light and/or laser (DBAL), over some cheap Chinese bullshit light or airsoft quality laser junk if my life could need to depend on it. A $60 NC Star with a failed tapeswitch sounds pretty gimmicky to me. YMMV Edited September 21, 2012 by MT Predator 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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