Does my Saiga work too well?

[truthcult 1]

Hey guys,

 

Bought a Saiga 12 the day after Thanksgiving. Immediately took it to a range and ran some buck through it. Worked great!

 

Busted it open, 4 port gun. Stoked!

 

Second trip: put more 00 buck through it. No troubles. Ran out, grabbed a few boxes of Remington low recoil 00 buck. A few FTE's later, switched to port setting 2 and it ran like a champ.

 

I decided I wanted some 10 round AGP mags, so I bought a stainless MD arms puck. It's the "S" stamped non-booster version.

 

Fast forward to today where I found an indoor range that will let me shoot birdshot. Brought the following rounds:

 

- Winchester Super X 1oz slugs

- Winchester Super X high brass #4 birdshot

- Remington #8 Game Loads

- Federal 1 1/8th oz bulk pack #7.5 shot

 

Only shot 30 slugs today. About 150 rounds of birdshot. Everything shot flawlessly on setting #1, with the exception of a few failures to feed (bolt not fully closing) toward the end. Both of those came out of the AGP mags and may have been due to us being babies with sore shoulders (slugs through a pump will do that) and not gripping the gun as tightly.

 

No weak ejections. No fireballs out of the breech. The only difference between now and the low recoil buck is that I cleaned and lubed the rails, put in the stainless (non booster) MD puck to be 922r with the 10 round mags and racked the gun a crap ton of times on my couch.

 

Am I overgassed? Should I be worried?

[physicsnerd 139]

Keep a watch for excessive rear trunnion wear if you are concerned. You could also buy an aftermarket gas regulating plug like the AutoPlug or the one that MDArms makes:

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1601/MD-ARMS-V-dsh-PLUG-SAIGA/Detail

 

Then you can fine tune your gas more carefully.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

People are looking for the wrong indicator of an excessively gassed weapon, which I might add that I have never seen come from the factory. The rear block should be the least of their worries. The front half of the carrier should be the area of focus. It will likely crack around the op rod or at the thin portion before there is significant damage to the rear block or significant mushrooming of the bolt tail and firing pin. Also, just because the carrier cracks or breaks still doesn't mean the weapon is over gassed. Parts fail and the method of attachment for the op rod is flawed.

 

OP,

Welcome aboard. Relax and enjoy the weapon. Hold the weapon very tight to the shoulder or chest. This will reduce the amount that it is allowed to "kick" you. Try it.

[sneaky 2]

Works too well, is that even a real thing?

All it sounds like is that you got a good one. As long as the carrier isnt dimpling the rear and its obvious that its not beating itself to death id say you are fine. Listen to evlblkwpnz

If you have any further questions on how to do ANYTHING with the gun you came to the right place. Some really smart dudes on here. Got mine up and running like a champ just from reading

Welcome aboard! Enjoy

Edited December 16, 2012 by sneaky

[z-mashin 1]

Hello everyone- I am a newbie and have inherited a 12 from my father. I too seem to have some issues concerning heavy cycling.

This gun cycled a mix of low brass bulk and field loads hard on gas plug setting 1. When I took it home and disassembled it for cleaning, the recoil spring assembly would allow for dust cover removal but I had to lightly tap on it to remove from reciever. There is evidence of hard contact of carrier to trunnion.

I have seen a picture on another thread of a rear trunnion and mine looks a little different than theirs. I am now worried about shooting this 12 at all. Gas plug seems to be made properly. I really want to be able to shoot loads that were intended for this gun. I would like some help in what direction to go first with correcting this problem before investing in this gun. It seems from alot of posts that undergassing is the biggest problem with these.

-2001 manuf.

-3 ports

-22"

Just a factory config saiga 12

Thanx

[Bcrider 68]

Z-mashin, can you post pics of the trunion? Are you sure it's a 22 in barrel?

[z-mashin 1]

Thanx for reply Person Dog, I measure just under 23" from end of barrel to bolt face. I will post a pic of trunnion as soon as i can in a little while. The pic in another post about trunnion damage shows a trunnion with a flat face where carrier had been kissing it. My trunnion has what appears to be a machined recess where bolt will actually clear firing pin at back of bolt. My hammer actually looks like its been taking a beating as well. I will post pics of both trunnion and hammer. Thanx again.

 

I really want to figure this out and get it right so I can convert it. I love the ak platform.

[mancat 2,368]

sorry to tell you, but in exchange for your perfectly functioning S12, karma will have to take something from you. your wife, a dog, a cat? maybe even a gerbil, you pervert? just prepare for the loss.

Edited February 27, 2013 by mancat

[z-mashin 1]

Well "mancat" maybe Karma is giving me a 12 that hammers any load on #1 gas setting for something good I've done in the past! Oh yeah Im always prepared.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

A 4 port long barrel S12? It should cycle almost anything out of the box.

 

Edit; Oops, got the OP and the other dudes convo mixed up.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Mullet Man

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Well "mancat" maybe Karma is giving me a 12 that hammers any load on #1 gas setting for something good I've done in the past! Oh yeah Im always prepared.

 

Must be pretty cool being the only monk at the monastery with a shotgun!

[z-mashin 1]

Person Dog--- Here are some pics of trunnion and hammer.

Edited February 27, 2013 by z-mashin

[Bcrider 68]

Hard to tell from the picks, but doesn't look too beat up to me. I don't think it should be cycling that bulk on 1. 3 ports with the long barrel is probably why. First thing I would do is an aftermarket gas plug so you have more than two settings and can cut some of that gas off. Probably the cheapest way to make sure you aren't beating her to death.

[z-mashin 1]

Thanx Person dog for the help. I have been reading about some of the aftermarket plugs. I was also concerned with recoil spring rates(I have no idea what they are in gun). I want to shorten barrel to 18.5" so I will probably do this and new gas plug first. Any recommendations for gas plug. It also seems like alot of the aftermarket parts are backordered when I've been checking.

[Bcrider 68]

No problem. I'm not even close to an expert, but I can sometimes help with the small stuff. Shortening the barrel may alleviate most of your problems because a longer barrel contains and pushes more gas back through the system. That's why I initially asked if you were sure the barrel was that long. I'm not surprised plugs are hard to find right now because of the scare. I use a V plug, but I've read great things about the Autoplug on this forum. Personally, I'd get running with the 18.5 barrel length and a more conventional plug like the V Plug before I dropped an Autoplug in it.

[z-mashin 1]

Thanx for feed back Person Dog I will continue on with this project. Seems worth it to convert. And there is is some good info here.

[scoutjoe 276]

z-mashin,

 

My 03 and 04 guns both have that recess in the rear. Since the one is a safe queen (factory camo gun) I'm pretty sure they get that recess pretty early on in life.

[z-mashin 1]

scoutjoe-- I appreciate the info thanx. My trunnion has some contact right around the opening from the bolt you can see it in the pics. How are yours holding up? My bolt shows no damage and front trunnion contact looks ok,operating rod is good. My problem came with not being able to remove recoil spring assembly easily after shoooting some lowbase and random field loads through it on gas setting#1(I had to tap a little on it to remove it). This gun banged these loads on #1 setting. Felt like 3 1/2" mags out of my benelli super black eagle. Thank god for this forum I wasn't sure why this was happening now I know.

[scoutjoe 276]

The gun I shoot has close to (if not more than) 10k through it. No problems on the op rod, carrier area. My "indent" on the rear trunion might be a little more than yours but to be honest with you its not bad at considering the number of shells through it at this point.

 

With your plug is it screwed all the way down then backed off to #1? The magnum setting shouldn't be beating the snot outta ya.

[z-mashin 1]

I agree scoutjoe. Yes I definitely checked the gas plug. I tightned it down all the way then backed it off to #1. I shot over 50 mixed low brass shells with 0 FTE. It ejected spent hulls very efficiently. I disassembled it and inspected it prior to firing it. I inherited it when my father passed a couple of years ago. The recoil spring assembly came out fine, but after shooting it the first time and trying to disassemble again I had trouble removing recoil spring assembly. I know my father didnt put that many rounds through her. But I did notice he was light on some of his slugs and 00 buck, bless him. I hope he used them on the 1 setting. Im assuming he did because I never saw him with his arm in a sling Ha Ha.

[gunfun 3,931]

Looks fine to me as well. The only problem I can see is that it needs some exercise, and a careful conversion.

[z-mashin 1]

Hello Gun Fun thanx for giving my pics of my trunnion a look over. I notice that most responses say trunnion looks ok. Nobody has really said anything about it being difficult to remove recoil spring assembly out of top of trunnion after shooting low brass on setting 1. Also dust shroud is moving rearward to point of barely hangin onto front lip. Have you ever had any trouble with yours. This is what originally brought me to this forum--fear of seriously damaging gun with cheap loads. I checked out your post on reliabity process and ammo, good info. I am assuming by "exercise" you mean that I need to shoot it more. I really want to but I think It still is running too hot on #1 setting. I really want it safe to use with magnum buck and slugs. I love to shoot shotguns and have others to use for the cheap stuff.

[scoutjoe 276]

As far as the recoil spring assembly, is the screws into the stock tightened down all the way? I had one that used to like to loosen up just enough to ride a little higher and would cause an issue.

 

 

Is the back of your carrier hitting the inside of the cover when it recoils?

[z-mashin 1]

Yes definitely tight stock hardware. There is a small amont of contact from recoil assembly at back of dust cover where button goes through. see these pics.

The top photo shows inside of dust cover. The crescent moon shaped mark above opening is the only contact I can see. The other marks are from popping cover on. So no I do not believe there is any carrier to cover contact.

Edited March 1, 2013 by z-mashin

[gunfun 3,931]

You might want to take a crescent wrench and tweak the back edge of the dust cover so that it fits tighter. That is to say, bend the bottom edge outward a little. My first one had a little warp that made the button hard to depress that a careful tap with a hammer straightened out.

 

If there isn't any sign on the inside of the dust cover of it being hammered as it looks from your picture, I wouldn't worry a bit.

[z-mashin 1]

Thanx again GunFun I will tweak it a bit to tune.

[z-mashin 1]

Dust cover is tight now from a little crescent wrench action. I chopped barrrel down from 23" down to 18.5. I show .680" I.D choke on original length. It now is .720" which should be somewhere around Improved Cylinder restriction. I hope this cuts back on some of the gas flow. Any feedback would be appreciated. Also I noticed dust cover moves to left side of reciever when action is cycled is this normal?

[gunfun 3,931]

I would just say that there are guys crying about the chopped barrel because the long ones are hard to find.

 

this also sounds like a prime time to have a smith thread it for winchokes or remchokes.

[z-mashin 1]

I hope losing some inches doesn't bother too many people(hoping for a longer barrel). If so I apologize. 23 inch barrel just doesnt feel right for a shotgun like this, and with it cycling so gnarly on #1 seems like a good place to start for my particular needs. Barrel being choked down from factory to .680 is like "extra full". Ton of back pressure and not a good spread at close range IMO. What do you guys think about dust cover moving slightly to left side of reciever when action is being cycled is this normal?

[gunfun 3,931]

probably normal. Kinda hard to say without seeing what you mean. you can tweak the dust cover to get a tight fit in several dimensions. There is the dimple to align it in the groove in the rear sight block...

Oh, and if people are bothered, that is their problem, not yours. I was just saying to brace yourself for the crying from the handfull of guys who have been scouring the web for years trying to get a long barrel model.