Goldeneagle76 24 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Had 3 unobstructed ports (had not measured them yet) All had gone well previously with 00 buck, etc so I converted and polished some of the internals. Was smooth as could be. Didn't want to deal with gas block so finally got to outdoor range and it would not cycle crap on setting #2. Federal Target 2 3/4 (red, white & blue) shells. So, got her home and decided to attempt gas block removal. To my surprise, I had it off, drilled ports (3 now at 3/32") and got it back together in under an hour. The friggin ports were so small before hand, my smallest drill bit in the box was the only one that would fit before drilling. So whatever is smaller than the 1/16" bit. Now I have to wait until I can get to my outdoor range again before test firing. So moral of the story, gas block removal is not so tough...go ahead and get r done before frustrating yourself at the range attempting to shoot low brass!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 So moral of the story, gas block removal is not so tough...go ahead and get r done before frustrating yourself at the range attempting to shoot low brass!!! ^^^ Bad advice. Always establish a base line. Drill ports as a last resort. Your gun will last longer that way. This concept is taught to every mechanical engineer in their Machine Element Design course in undergrad... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Nephilim I disagree. Why is it that every post on this topic recently ends with "I tried everything and finally took the gas block off and drilled the ports. Now it functions." The baseline is firing it in stock configuration and is different for every gun. Just because drilling the ports means the most work doesn't mean it should be the last resort. Port size has already been established and recommended for years by the experts here. 3/32 for a 3 port and 5/64 for a 4. If you have to go larger than that, then I'm worried and thinking about other fixes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldeneagle76 24 Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) So moral of the story, gas block removal is not so tough...go ahead and get r done before frustrating yourself at the range attempting to shoot low brass!!! ^^^ Bad advice. Always establish a base line. Drill ports as a last resort. Your gun will last longer that way. This concept is taught to every mechanical engineer in their Machine Element Design course in undergrad... I definitely should have clarified that to say measure first and if needed, drill them out. 3 pin hole sized ports are not going to run low brass in this thing. I'm telling people not to be afraid to jump into this mod. Kind of an addendum to the "I used to have a vagina too" post earlier this week. Edited February 6, 2013 by Goldeneagle76 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 4 @ .078"/ 3@ .093 is a baseline to start from. Almost no one has guns that run well with less. If you can see an obious kink in your fuel line, You don't need to carefully adjust the carbruetor before unkinking the fuel line. As for going beyond that baseline, I agree. Systematically work your way up. This guy here did the other due diligence, and gave good advice in context, which is don't be afraid to do an easy job when you have determined that it needs to be done. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 4 @ .078"/ 3@ .093 is a baseline to start from. Almost no one has guns that run well with less. If you can see an obious kink in your fuel line, You don't need to carefully adjust the carbruetor before unkinking the fuel line. As for going beyond that baseline, I agree. Systematically work your way up. This guy here did the other due diligence, and gave good advice in context, which is don't be afraid to do an easy job when you have determined that it needs to be done. Good call as usual Mr. Fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Gunfun, I agree with you. I may have overstated what I intended. I just did not want a newbie to see that paragraph and decide to drill away. It should not be the first option to drill ports. If drilling is proven necessary, it should be done carefully and systematically. Thanks for straightening it out. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheJoe90 27 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Gunfun, I agree with you. I may have overstated what I intended. I just did not want a newbie to see that paragraph and decide to drill away. It should not be the first option to drill ports. If drilling is proven necessary, it should be done carefully and systematically. Thanks for straightening it out. This was my only point I have been trying to make also. Drill confidently, but only once you have tried your other options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Leave it to the lawyer (GunFun) to sort out and clarify the wording of what everyone is trying to say... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Leave it to the student (GunFun) to sort out and clarify the wording of what everyone is trying to say... There is a lawyer on this forum, TotheFloor, who does NFA stuff, and a lot of social security work. I am not a lawyer. Gimme a year and change though. Edited February 8, 2013 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Point of fact. LOL Sorry. I guess that was "leading" wasn't it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Don't mean to side track the topic, but this sounds like the road I will be traveling soon, and I have seen it mentioned in other threads to drill the holes at an angle, but they never specify which direction they should be angled. Does anyone have a diagram, illustration, or just a good thread they could point me to which describes the correct way to angle them? thanks, Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Hey Brian. If you are holding the weapon the holes should be angled back towards you. You can place a toothpick or piece of wire down one to use as a guide and eyeball it as you drill out the others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Angled opposite of the projectile leaving the barrel. Think about how the projectile leaves the barrel, then think about how the piston and carrier move and are positioned in relation to it. \\\ Once the gas block is off, you should be able to see that the ports are angled. Unless Ivan was really hitting the bottle hard that day. Edited February 8, 2013 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'll borrow this from yeoldetool for clarification. Thanks yeoldetool. Breech-----\\\----->muzzle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 May be beneficial to increase the angle (lay the drill closer to the barrel) as you enlarge. Should help a little with fouling prevention. I seem to remember someone knowledgeable say 15-20 degrees... Might search for that to double check though. Certainly don't oversize the ports in order to achieve a better angle. The factory angle is fine too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation on the angle of the holes! That makes sense, and the illustration really helped also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Practice the motion of drilling before drilling. You will do better if you support the drill with one hand braced against the barrel and steadying the drill against it as you do a rocking motion with the bracing hand. There are lots of ways to do this, but the point is to push the drill through the whole motion without wobbling or punching through to hit the opposite side of the barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldeneagle76 24 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Practice the motion of drilling before drilling. You will do better if you support the drill with one hand braced against the barrel and steadying the drill against it as you do a rocking motion with the bracing hand. There are lots of ways to do this, but the point is to push the drill through the whole motion without wobbling or punching through to hit the opposite side of the barrel. I recommend putting a wooden dowel inside the barrel while drilling, prevents any chance of nailing the inside of the barrel. I had one sitting in the garage that was a little smaller than the inside barrel diameter and it worked great. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 You can also put a rubber band or tape or something on the drill bit to help visualize how deep not to go. Has helped me in the past... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) I have owned and fired a few Saiga 12s, but I am still far from knowing it all and these weapons are indeed somewhat individual. However, I have never even seen a Saiga 12 that would meet my reliability expectations straight out of the box.... never, not one. I no longer bother seeing where they are. I just throw my recipe at them and they are insanely reliable from the first shot on. I do suggest learning your way around the platform before taking that stance. Edited February 11, 2013 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Run and Gun 25 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I have owned and fired a few Saiga 12s, but I am still far from knowing it all and these weapons are indeed somewhat individual. However, I have never even seen a Saiga 12 that would meet my reliability expectations straight out of the box.... never, not one. I no longer bother seeing where they are. I just throw my recipe at them and they are insanely reliable from the first shot on. I do suggest learning your way around the platform before taking that stance. Would you share your recipe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Some excellent tips, especially the one about inserting the dowel into the barrel to prevent over plunging. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I have owned and fired a few Saiga 12s, but I am still far from knowing it all and these weapons are indeed somewhat individual. However, I have never even seen a Saiga 12 that would meet my reliability expectations straight out of the box.... never, not one. I no longer bother seeing where they are. I just throw my recipe at them and they are insanely reliable from the first shot on. I do suggest learning your way around the platform before taking that stance.Would you share your recipe? 4 more years.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Is this the original or extra crispy recipe? Four more years?!?!? You're killin me, EVL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Is this the original or extra crispy recipe? Four more years?!?!? You're killin me, EVL. Trust me, it's killing me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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