saltydecimator 482 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Been talk on here of not buyin commie chineese products, and folks lustin after a US made semi mag fed shotty. But I ask, would it even be legal or approved for civvie sale? We are protected from aphabets by congress' thing attached to that farm bill last year, but I don't think thatus made products are afforded the same protection. And as sgested, chineese are prob protected too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 It would be legal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Correct me if I am wrong, but can you not buy a USA made AK receiver and create your own build with all USA made parts? Is there a company out there that does this? Edited: Not asking about shotguns, more AK's in general. To get back on topic, what's the hold up on Saiga-12 build kits? I have never come across a US made Saiga-12 receiver. Why is that? Edited February 23, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 AK receiver "flats" are very easy to find, you just have to bend them. The forming dies are available too. Many companies claim to build "American" AKs, but I have a feeling most of them are on foreign parts kits if you really dug into it. I would guess the hold up on S-12 parts kits is that Izhmash doesn't want to sell them! A receiver would be pointless without a parts kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I believe Tom Cole's S12 AOW uses a US made receiver, although I might be mistaken. As I understand it ATF considers the front trunion to be the receiver rather than for instance the receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxon_182 44 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Since the registered part on the S12 is the front trunnion, I was under the impression Tom Cole was milling his own trunnions and using another S12 as a "parts kit." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Since the registered part on the S12 is the front trunnion, A. Registered to whom? B. Since when? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 A. if you manufacture an AOW, the gun is registered with ATF on a form1. The Receiver is the registered part, and on an S12 for no discernable reason they decided that the trunion is the "receiver", not the receiver. B. Since 1934 and since whenever the first opinion letter was dropped on an S12 for conversion purposes. It was a dumb call, but they have stuck with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoshAston 39 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 There are more restrictions on imported firearms than there are domestic ones. Hence why guns such as the Glock 25 and 28 are illegal to import for civilian sales. A domestically produced S12 would be perfectly legal. The issue is that it wouldn't be cost effective to manufacture in the US when cheaper imports are readily available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 There are more restrictions on imported firearms than there are domestic ones. Hence why guns such as the Glock 25 and 28 are illegal to import for civilian sales. A domestically produced S12 would be perfectly legal. The issue is that it wouldn't be cost effective to manufacture in the US when cheaper imports are readily available. Since there are more restrictions on import firearms let's play with some hypotheticals. Let's say the proposed AWB doesn't pass. It's easy to assume their next step would be to put more restriction on Imports. For this purpose let's say they ban imports all together. It's not a stretch to think this can happen. There would be no need for an act of Congress plus it would be a major win for the administration and proponents of gun control in general. What would come out of an Import ban? Cheaper imports aren't on the market so would US companies step in and fill the void? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 The single biggest impact is that all of our imported ammo would vanish... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) A. if you manufacture an AOW, the gun is registered with ATF on a form1. The Receiver is the registered part, and on an S12 for no discernable reason they decided that the trunion is the "receiver", not the receiver. B. Since 1934 and since whenever the first opinion letter was dropped on an S12 for conversion purposes. It was a dumb call, but they have stuck with it. Sorry, I missed the part where you said AOW. The OP didn't appear to be asking about NFA stuff. Edited February 25, 2013 by Netpackrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 i am referring to the usas 12, the spas 12 and the striker or whatever. of those that were made in the usa, they still got declared a destructive device.... so what would keep a US made saiga a non DD? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 i am referring to the usas 12, the spas 12 and the striker or whatever. of those that were made in the usa, they still got declared a destructive device.... so what would keep a US made saiga a non DD? Those guns were banned by name (not just cosmetic features) and the Saiga-12 has not been. Country of origin doesn't matter. Right now, today, it would be perfectly legal to manufacture a 100% US made S-12 as the sporting shotgun that it is. Could BATFE declare the S-12 a DD tomorrow? Sure could... It would be pretty interesting to watch though... I've read numbers that less than 2000 SPAS-12s where ever imported... There are probably more than 2000 Saiga shotguns represented by 10% of our membership here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ignition 9 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Thank goodness the ruskies didnt design the s-12 with an integral drum ;-p Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 There used to be a whole bunch of people cursing Mr. Davidson and the AA guys for making drums, 'cause they were going to get the S12 banned.... Obviously those guys need to eat some crow. Why live life afraid to do responsible legal things in fear they might become illegal? Not saying you should show off your S12 with a bump stock and drum at Feinstein's house party. But go ahead and do what you are going to do. A big part of how the '94 AWB got through is that they bought off the US gun makers who weren't bothering to innovate. Bill Ruger didn't want to make standard cap magazines for us lowly common people. They were perfectly happy to offer support or at least not resist a ban on foreign compettitors who would. None of the US shotgun makers put up much complaint about seeing Spas 12 go away, nor the Korean USAS 12. With those gone, they could still claim to be selling the most advanced guns on the market, while selling guns their grandad carried. And the customer base didn't know what it was missing. It knows NOW. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 GF is right on the money, but I want to expand on it a little. Bill Ruger not only didn't do anything to prevent the '94 ban, he helped draft the legislation and testified that "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun." Basically, he sold us out to save the Mini-14 from being banned by name. Lots of guys, even today, won't touch a Ruger because of what he did. Thankfully, his ass is planted in the ground and Ruger has it right this time. It's best that we not forget that and pay careful attention to how the manufacturers might handle things this time around. So far, I think our manufacturers as a whole are doing an excellent job of trying to defend our rights and their livelihood. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Correct me if I am wrong, but can you not buy a USA made AK receiver and create your own build with all USA made parts? Is there a company out there that does this? No one does it because an AK would cost upwards of a few grand. Nothing beats parts built on communist slave labor or mafia capitalism (present Russia). . Noticed your profile pic. Please explain how NAGR isn't a scam, riding the NRA's coat tails? Edited February 27, 2013 by S12KS-K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Noticed your profile pic. Please explain how NAGR isn't a scam, riding the NRA's coat tails? Huh? I just liked the message the picture conveyed. Not a NAGR member and don't know jack about their policies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Noticed your profile pic. Please explain how NAGR isn't a scam, riding the NRA's coat tails? Huh? I just liked the message the picture conveyed. Not a NAGR member and don't know jack about their policies. Sorry, lol. Just can't stand a scam like that that also disses the NRA while doing absolutely nothing but raking in cash from their bumper sticker sales. Ok back on topic. Nothing illegal about US made AK's it's just that there's no interest since original parts are so cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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