My Parents dont listen!

[dashowdy 141]

I have been into firearms and shooting for a good 4 years now since just before my daughter was born. I have concealed carry and open carry for 3 of those 4 years. I always assumed it is a minimum no matter what if you buy a pistol for your own personal protection especially if your carry it that you run 200 rounds of fmj and 50 rounds of hollowpoints to at least do a minimum reliability test, regardless of caliber or make this is just good common sense to me.

 

My parents had recently gotten there chp's and my dad carries and my mom just started too, albeit with a not broken in kahr PM9 and my dad carried his M&P 45 full size while the magazine springs were faulty, smith and wesson warranty issue.

 

I was asked to take my moms pistol out and test it this weekend since she cant take the time, mistake number one. Then my dad only sends 100 rounds of fmj and forgets the other magazine for the test, mistake number 2.

 

The sad part is my mom had been carrying a pistol that may or may not be reliable and on top of that had never shot nor has ever shot anything with this size or recoil. I have expressed my concern more times than I can count on some of the dumb decisions they have made regarding there safety.

 

I am out of options other than to just tell them not to carry and just stay vigilant and run if something happens, because I would never confront a threat unless I absolutely had too if I did not have to with a tool that I was not completely confident in. I dont know what else to do they will ask advice and then not use a damn bit of it, which is there choice , but a stupid one.

 

So what should I do, to show them the light and actually take some interest in there well being and safety? I mean there my parents I dont want them to not carry but there decisions really make me question there judgement on this.

Edited September 6, 2013 by dashowdy

[RobRez 1,895]

Gotta get them out to the range and show them how unprepared they really are!

[yakdung 2,926]

Parents have thick skulls. It takes a disaster that is tangible to get them off of their rear ends to scare them into action.

[csspecs 1,987]

Sounds like your local to your parents. If so.

 

Get some ammo. And arrange for a range day followed by a good family meal (either at home or out).

That way even if the range is not what they would call enjoyable, you at least leave it as a positive day.

 

If you can make target shooting enjoyable it will actually happen.

 

I'd suggest trying to find a good quiet shooting spot, that way its more of a family thing. Reactive targets are a good idea, and make practice drills into something of a game, complete with scoring.

[dashowdy 141]

They have been and understand what a malfunction can do because I have induced them myself just to give them an Idea. I know they could kill someone if needed but when your shitting your pants scared like most people in a deadly situation, adrenalin tends to have an effect on accuracy.

 

I wish I could do a range day but they always have more important things to do,so cant help those who dont wanna be helped. Actually had one planned for yesterday but they flaked as usual. And this is supposed to be outdoors at a friends house so a great setting but alas I am going by myself I guess, hell my wife wants to go but she is past the threshold for being pregnant and going to the shooting range and not harming the babies hearing, however she did purchase a romanian sar-2 for herself to practice with after nov. 24. getting the parts in now to convert back to romy 22mm threads and the cnc warrior 22mm brake, she even bought mags and a 2160 round crate to get here started, yeah I am a lucky son of a bitch. Except at night when I want to sleep, because she rolls around like a hibernating bear when shes pregnant, seriously like a bear!

Edited September 6, 2013 by dashowdy

[XD45 7,124]

Your parents are vigilantes?

 

Those that don't practice shouldn't carry auto pistols.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Darth Saigus

[menace667 194]

True story Bro...

 

My mom, after much urging and it took her friend being robbed at knife point in Jacksonville, FL to do it, got her CWP and bought a pistol to carry. Actually she bought two, one was a Keltec p11 in 9mm and a S&W .380 bodyguard. She called me up one day and said she had a round stuck in the chamber of her Keltec and asked if I could look at it. When I went to her house she handed me the nastiest pistol I have ever seen. The round was not stuck in the chamber, but instead gummed in there with crud. I asked her how she carried, and she proudly replied "in my purse" without any type of protection for the firearm from debris. My mom is a clean person, but a purse as we all know is a bottomless pit where crap goes to die. I explained the importance of not getting stuff in teh barrel and how it can cause catastrophic malfunctions and how a clean gun is a happy gun and such. Offered to clean it for her and she accepted only to fiind out that meant taking it with me because she did not have so much as any oil , much less any actual proper cleaning supplies.

 

Got it home and had to run it through my ultrasonic cleaner assembled just to get it to where it could be disassembled. Then I broke it down and about two hours later ran it through the ultra sonic cleaner again for a final once over after i removed a ton of gunk and debris. took pictures to show her how bad it was and dangerous and such. I returned it to her the following week and she asked if I minded cleaning her bodyguard for her. I replied with sure and lo and behold after all that she reached in her purse and handed me it in almost the same condition.

 

At that point I learned that 1) they will not listen and 2) hope that the gun itself is enough deterrent and that she never needs to fire it.

[dashowdy 141]

NO NO darth I have seen them shoot and they are what I would call minute of man accurate at 15 yards, more of a pattern than a grouping. I referenced there shooting because it shows the lack of attention to being prepared for the reason you would carry a pistol in the first place, thats why I say I think they could shoot well enough to defend themselves but not so much that they are not going to probably miss a few times unless it is seriously up close and personal, hope it never is but always pray for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

I am right there with you on practice, I have spent a lot of time and energy and reloading to get myself to the point that I feel I am proficient enough to stop a threat with minimal rounds and hopefully no stray bullets, again adrenalin is one of those crazy things that either it works for you because you worked it to muscle memory or it makes your control go to shit. That's time and training, investigating ammunition for self defense and ballistics, accessories detail stripping guns and understanding there care and usage, it is something I take to heart and am very passionate about which is why I am disappointed about there attitude regarding some of these issues. Put it this way I am sure if it was not for me they would run a magazine or two through a gun and call it good as long as it sort of worked, yea they are those people.

 

Menace I am in exactly that same boat brother, hopefully it is enough of a deterrent, I hope!

Edited September 6, 2013 by dashowdy

[XD45 7,124]

Oh, you confused me when you said you told your parents to remain vigilante.

 

[dashowdy 141]

fixed gracias! would be funny if they were then maybe I wouldn't be posting this thread:)

Edited September 6, 2013 by dashowdy

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Hang in there and keep trying. Use what they used on you when trying to raise a good human being, reverse psychology. Now I can make a few suggestions like "Your gonna look awfully funny with that jammed gun sticking out of your ass", but I do not know these people like you do. Obviously they raised a decent son, so think of some thing that will draw them in. Remember they did it to you, so turn about is fair play.

[dashowdy 141]

I have not given up yet just regrouping efforts I am going to plan a trip back home in the next couple of weekends where we can shoot at our leisure and get them understanding the responsibility involved with the right.

[Spartacus 1,619]

See if they will take a gun safety class with you.

 

I read a tragic story some time ago about an old guy that got killed by an intruder even though he had his pistol pointed at the bad guy. The old guy forgot about the safety on the gun in his panic and just helplessly kept trying to pull the locked trigger as he was murdered. Horrible mental image.

 

The PM9 doesn't have a safety though right?

That's both good and bad I guess.

[dashowdy 141]

No it doesn't, but single stack carry pistols are not synonymous with reliability or shootability in the same regard as subcompact service pistols. I wish we could take a class together but I can keep wishing in one hand and well you get the idea, as P diddy said in get him to the greek, I gotta mind fuck'em, figuratively that is.

[Marc 147]

I prefer semi-auto pistols for carry, however the learning curve on revolvers is much lower and even though they are more complicated mechanically then auto pistols, revolvers are less prone to being gummed up with crap when they are needed the most.

 

Just something to think on, good luck in your efforts.

[Big John! 2,062]

Did they not learn the magnitude of their new found responsibility at their CCW class?

[dashowdy 141]

I personally believe that the ccw class here in nc is a freaking joke honestly. The test is to easy and the shooting is to easy anyone can get them. I had my wife put 600 rounds down range in her M&P before taking the class, she does not carry all the time but she is proficient with it so I feel ok when I am away and she is at home, always keep a couple loaded where needed just in case.

[menace667 194]

While i was in the police academy we did a drill that i think if everyone in a CCE class had to do would make people think twice. They had you walk up to the firing line and place your loaded and readyto fire weapon on the table. Drop down and start doing push up's to simulate the stresses of "fight or flight" physical effects on the body that occurs during shoot situations. A random buzzer will sound after you have done a random number of repetitions. You have to jump up at the buzzer and shoot at a target coming at you and not hit any or the stationary targets behind it which simulate other citizens. It sucked, but does put you under real physical stresses to see how things are different than at a range table under calm conditions.

 

Maybe try to get her to try it. Push up's are not a must. Anythin to get the heart beating and blood to shunt is just as good. She can do jump n jacks as long as she turns her back to the target. Then purposely make a malfunction like an empty chamber so all she gets is a click and she needs to fix it quick while stressed.

 

Sure, she may love you less afterward, but since you do not live there anymore it is ok :-)

[menace667 194]

While i was in the police academy we did a drill that i think if everyone in a CCE class had to do would make people think twice. They had you walk up to the firing line and place your loaded and readyto fire weapon on the table. Drop down and start doing push up's to simulate the stresses of "fight or flight" physical effects on the body that occurs during shoot situations. A random buzzer will sound after you have done a random number of repetitions. You have to jump up at the buzzer and shoot at a target coming at you and not hit any or the stationary targets behind it which simulate other citizens. It sucked, but does put you under real physical stresses to see how things are different than at a range table under calm conditions.

 

Maybe try to get her to try it. Push up's are not a must. Anythin to get the heart beating and blood to shunt is just as good. She can do jump n jacks as long as she turns her back to the target. Then purposely make a malfunction like an empty chamber so all she gets is a click and she needs to fix it quick while stressed.

 

Sure, she may love you less afterward, but since you do not live there anymore it is ok :-)

[XD45 7,124]

Most people aren't going to train. That's reality.

[gunfun 3,931]

Maybe you can sucker them into it with pride... Make it a contest somehow. Does your mom have a friend she would want to out do? Take them both shooting. Don't bring dad. When your mom can shoot, and starts to care. Make fun of your dad a little about how you mom is showing him up...

 

That kind of thing has worked for me in the past getting sticks in the mud to step up.

[dashowdy 141]

Menace I do this same drill but hold the medium size pickle jars as long as possible with my arms extended, helluva workout but it helps you get your breathing and muscle control under stress like you said. probably couldn't talk them into that but some dummy rounds stuck in there mag next time might wake them up.

 

True darth most are not, which is the scary truth, because these are the ones that after 50 rounds at 10 yards looks like a shotgun pattern on paper instead of a handgun, that may be good enough for a ccw class but it is woefully inadequate for the real world to me.

 

pride unfortunately gunfun is something that does not work on either of them, they are a bit too smart for there or own good. I mean my dad had bent magazine springs in his 45 causing them to only feed 5 to 6 rounds before stopping, I even showed him what was wrong ordered the springs and gave him spare mags that i had tested and used and was sure functioned perfectly, he still carried it around with a fucked up mag. His response, Oh well it will work for at least 5 or 6 shots.

 

 

This logic right here is what is so damn dangerous because they should know better than to carry like this. They have plenty of practice ammo so that is not an issue.

[jerry52 893]

That is why they still sell revolvers I guess. Maybe you should buy small light revolvers for your parents. Last time I checked they work every time and do not need much attention. Trade the other guns in for them.

[dashowdy 141]

Would definitely rather them remove there heads from there anal cavity and learn to go and hit the range once a month I mean its not a huge investment.

[jerry52 893]

I here you Love them anyway.

[Arik 565]

My dad owns a HK USP 40. in 10 years he has taken it to the range ONCE and fired a box of bullets. He WILL NOT go to the range and WILL NOT practice anything and is not willing to buy more ammo then the 2 full mags of golden Sabers he already has. He keepss it as his HD gun and doesnt carry. He is not a gun person and doesnt intemd to be. All he wants to do is be able to shoot it if he must.

[gunfun 3,931]

That is why they still sell revolvers I guess. Maybe you should buy small light revolvers for your parents. Last time I checked they work every time and do not need much attention. Trade the other guns in for them.

 

Fill a revolver up with sticky goo and see how well it revolves... All guns take care and revolvers are no exception. I've shot a couple old dirty revolvers that took serious strength to pull the trigger before cleaning, and others that had a tendency to let the shells slide back and drag.

 

They make little holsters that can clip onto the dividers of her purse. That would go a long way, but she is still leaving her gun sitting around every time she isn't holding the purse. She would still be incompetent untill she practices with the purse at the range exactly however she carries.

[dashowdy 141]

They do at least have decent holsters, the soft holster with clip seems to work good in pocket books, albeit carrying in a pocket book is retarded imho, but to each there own. Your right too revolvers timing is critical and can get a little gummy and rough in the actions even stopping the trigger pull if neglected and abused. I would actually feel better with say a duty style subcompact for reliability in dirty situations, right after I took it to the range and got familiar with the pistol. I dont know why anyone would just not take the time a learn there gun immediately if they want to carry it. I have only carried 2 untested pistols a total of 10 days in my life without testing.

 

The only reason was because they were gen3 glock 9mm's, no excuse but if ya gotta trust something without testing, it is better to have something that is more than likely gonna keep going bang. Granted at this point I was very familiar with a handgun at this point regardless of make or caliber.

Edited September 7, 2013 by dashowdy

[jerry52 893]

Gun I here you but I was making a light point . Yes you need to care for a gun but I guess some do not see it that way so what can you do. When it does not go boom it does not go boom.

If it was my parents I would just make sure it will go boom by cleaning them as much as I can and I am sure that will be done here.

[gunfun 3,931]

I'm with you there. Honestly, that's pretty much what I do with my dad. He thinks of guns as appliances to make pests go away. He generally wants someone else to do the shooting for him. He'll spend $400 more to save a couple cents a round on ammo, then buy the cheapest ammo he can find.

 

I am fairly certain that a few of his guns went decades between cleaning. His shotgun went into storage for a couple years because no one could work the action. It was basically jammed shut with a combination of light corrosion, dried oil and fish blood/salt water/ fish slime. we had to soak it in solvents and then use all the force my 6'4 step brother and I combined to get it open to tear down and clean. After that, I took it upon myself to learn how to maintain firearms and basically learned from examination and reading. People make a big deal about one brand or another of solvent or lubricant, but with ingenuity you can get most any gun pretty clean with normal stuff like WD 40, corrosion block and a knotted string worked back and forth through the barrel. When I got my own first gun I bought a cleaning kit with it which felt like an amazing luxury. Still using it too.

 

I know he won't change much, so the best I can do is try to make sure he has the proper supplies and has durable guns and good ammo. I've gotten him to take a few safety things more seriously, but I know his guns will always be in the weather and full of puree of fish. He's given me a budget to replace a few guns that got stolen off of his boat, so I'd best get on it.

 

Old ruger P series have a reputation for working while grody? Anyone have comments on those as choice for someone like Dash's parents or my dad?

 

My current shopping list is generally something like this Late 1970s S&W SS police pump. I believe the model is 300, which had a reputation for some flaws. However, my uncle had one subjected to the same condition as my father's guns and it was still the smoothest pump I have used. So that's my pick. If there are problems, I think I can deal with them.

 

A ruger SS 9mm pistol carbine and maybe the companion p-series pistol seems like a good fit for his style and the setting too.