KrisFox 69 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) On list, got call today they wanted $, I said I wanted an invoice/paper billing as it constitutes a binding contract that is easier to enforce in my state. He was really adiment I get the check in the mail ASAP... Kind of a turn off and a red flag for me for a product he admits he "should get back from anodizing today"... Would like to get PM'd price you guys were told, I will PM back my price... Trying to figure out how UP and UP this guy operates. Edited March 21, 2014 by KrisFox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Interesting to see your opinion because mine is the exact opposite. And no, I'm not sharing pricing info either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rapidrpr 3 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I am with brett248vista Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Sorry been personally involved in too many "Your item will be ready in two more weeks." incidents. I find it interesting when people say things like "I don't share your opinion but I also won't share info I have that will either support your opinion or back up mine." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I am not sharing info on a pre-production item that was offered at an introductory price to those who were willing to jump on-board. The price was less than the production price will be, that much I know. As for the company themselves, they have been eager to communicate with us freely at every step of the development along the way. I spent quite a bit of time "chatting" with Brent and I can tell they are a HUGE operation with tons of big machining equipment and the firearms side of things is new to them, but machining certainly is not. These are guys that have Five Axis CNC machines, price one... FWIW I was never asked to pay anything until the item was in-stock and was going to ship. But I didn't write a check either. If I was selling a product though, I would not ship an item till the check cleared the bank. The "standard" is 5-10 business days. If a business wants to take a risk and ship product before the check has cleared, that is completely up to them, but it's not something I would do. And it's not like SAS is "Vaporware", did you see the photos of all the pretty CNC machined lowers sitting there? Kind of hard to fake it, considering no one else on the planet makes a one piece CNC lower for the Akdal. Hopefully you understand why I am not sharing pricing info. I am not trying to be an ass I just don't think it's something that should be shared. Edited March 21, 2014 by Brett248Vista Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 What you dont want to hear. One piece two piece or twelve piece The part in question is covered by a patent I own!! These wont be around for long. Jim i have kept my mouth shut about this because I know how much certain people here just love it when things are stolen and copied 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Jim, this part looks nothing like yours at all, and it takes internals that yours does not (i.e.: the original MKA trigger group) I believe yours only takes AR internals or your trigger package. I am a graphic artist and all I have to do to print or use another persons idea or artwork is to change it 14% to beat any copyright infringements. I don't know if it works the same in manufacturing. But he has clearly changed 50% or more from your product. Edited March 22, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Wow so you patented the whole idea of making a replacement lower for a firearm? You are my HERO! You sure do cry a lot over nothing. Everyone "steals" all your great ideas.. Do you whine like this to the AR community too? Don't really care at this point if I make friends, couldn't give two shits less. While you are at it.. Post that Patent Number so I can look it up. You may already be in violation of an existing patent I just found. Edited March 22, 2014 by Brett248Vista Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) ^ thats what I was wondering, Jim thinks he reinvented the wheel or something. Edited March 22, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rebel Katt 6 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why don't you both blow your cash and shut the fk up. Asholes 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steveUK 9 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why don't you both blow your cash and shut the fk up.AsholesOooooooooooooo So which is better the two piece lower or the one piece lower, there's only one way to find out........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Why don't you both blow your cash and shut the fk up. Asholes How about, No... This thread was started for those of us interested in the SAS billet lower. If you are only here to whine and shill, then why not go troll elsewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rebel Katt 6 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Aw man, now you've gone and hurt my feelings... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Walk it off it's just a flesh wound! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Jim, this part looks nothing like yours at all, and it takes internals that yours does not (i.e.: the original MKA trigger group) I believe yours only takes AR internals or your trigger package. I am a graphic artist and all I have to do to print or use another persons idea or artwork is to change it 14% to beat any copyright infringements. I don't know if it works the same in manufacturing. But he has clearly changed 50% or more from your product. Jim, this part looks nothing like yours at all, and it takes internals that yours does not (i.e.: the original MKA trigger group) I believe yours only takes AR internals or your trigger package. I am a graphic artist and all I have to do to print or use another persons idea or artwork is to change it 14% to beat any copyright infringements. I don't know if it works the same in manufacturing. But he has clearly changed 50% or more from your product. Those numbers of change mean nothing I spent lots of money on patents and lawyers If it retrofits an MKA or clone of MKA and accepts AR15 stocks or grips. If its made of any material other than polymer. And if it has a metal ramp. Any one infringes on the patent What it looks like, how its made ect has no bearing. I was the first to design it make it patent it and sell it..period People may not like that but that the way it is. I obey the law, I dont steal, I dont cheat, and I protect what is mine. When people get all happy that someone ripped off property it does not define you as a decent person. I have watched all those same people from the start raising hell whenever I pointed out plain old theft. You are no better than people I arrest and put in jail just about every day. jim Wow so you patented the whole idea of making a replacement lower for a firearm? You are my HERO! You sure do cry a lot over nothing. Everyone "steals" all your great ideas.. Do you whine like this to the AR community too? Don't really care at this point if I make friends, couldn't give two shits less. While you are at it.. Post that Patent Number so I can look it up. You may already be in violation of an existing patent I just found. Just your question proves your stupidity 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I have watched all those same people from the start raising hell whenever I pointed out plain old theft. You are no better than people I arrest and put in jail just about every day. so when I receive my new SAS lower are you gonna come arrest me. dude, get over your self already.By the way how is the lawsuit against T&N going. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KIRCH76 12 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks for the inquiry! We are doing some final testing and are ramping upfor production. It's looking like about a five to six before we can ship parts. Our plan isto retail the lower and all the parts listed at $349.00 plus $25 shippingand handling. But, since we are introducing this as a new product, we wouldlike to sell the first twenty-five lowers at an introductory rate of $299.00plus $25 shipping and handling. If you do purchase a lower at theintroductory rate, we would like to have your feedback on what you think ofthe product in the form of a questionnaire that we will send with it. Wehave assembled our lower on several guns and it has work great, but we wouldlike to know if there will be any unforeseen problems with a wider crosssection of guns. We would also like to know your thoughts on ease ofassemble and overall performance.Let me know if you are interested and I will put you on the waiting list forthe first 25 parts.Thanks again for the inquiry! Tony BrentProject ManagerSAS Firearms440 248-3025 ext. 162 Since I never actually had any interest in buying this lower(just curious on the price) and everyone else wants to keep is some huge secret... This is the email I got Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Just your question proves your stupidity Yeah, still waiting on that Patent Number... Edited March 23, 2014 by Brett248Vista Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) What cracks me up about Jim is he is so worried about people stealing a design that wasn't even his to start with( aluminum AR lower), but then turns around and steals the pontiac Firebird logo and even has the nerve to call it Firebird to boot. Sure he changed it more than 14%, but you can clearly see the plagiarism here. The guy is blinded by his own ego. Edited March 23, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 There are thousands of variations of the phoenix or Firebird. I hope something you have worked on for years and invested tons of money in, gets stolen. Karma will catch up Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) GM may disagree with your willy nilly approach to using the Pontiac Firebird Logo (even modified). Even though Pontiac is now defunct GM still owns the licensing of the Logo and Name(s) and they actively go after those who infringe without granted licensing. So where do you draw the line at what is ok and what is NOT ok to "steal" ? Is it just ok for you? No need to worry about Karma because SAS is doing nothing wrong. It's just plain SAD that you even bothered to come into this thread and start throwing crap, almost as sad as when you did your smear campaign against Tooth & Nail Armory. Edited March 24, 2014 by Brett248Vista Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) There are thousands of variations of the phoenix or Firebird. There are also thousands of variations of AR lowers. So please tell us what makes your firebird lower so damn special and unique that you think no one but you can make one now. I would really like to know. Really. Edited March 24, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 There are thousands of variations of the phoenix or Firebird. There are also thousands of variations of AR lowers. So please tell us what makes your firebird lower so damn special and unique that you think no one but you can make one now. I would really like to know. Really. Because it was the first! and I patented it! And I dont think it...I know it The first year it was under a provisional patent. Then we applied for a utility patent. The USPTO told me it may take 18 months before a nunber is assigned, but it is absolutely covered! And has been from the date they recieved the first application. Just like when armalite had its patent on the first AR15 Then it was sold to Colt, and ONLY Colt made AR15s Now decades later the patents have expired, so anyone can make an AR15. The world is full of thieves, all looking to take property from honest people that earned the things they have. I worked hard to design these parts, i was the first to do it,I spent the time and capitol to produce them. I paid the legal fees and lawyers to patent the designs. How in the world can you think I am in the wrong to protect my property. And if you do...you have no Moral compass, and no honesty about you. The other company making this part may not even know its patented. The will soon get a letter from our lawyer asking them to stop making it. I have to assume they are an honest company,and i suspect they will comply, Honest people understand these things and only operate within the rule of law. I doubt these people would continue over a couple dozen parts. Jim 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Jim, What is the patent number? I want to actually put my eyes on the document and read it. Surely that's not a trade secret since it's public info on the USPTO web site, I just can't seem to locate it. Thanks! Edited March 24, 2014 by Brett248Vista 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Because it was the first! The first what??? Akdal was the first to invent it. You sure do seem to be avoiding the direct questions asked. Once again, what makes your lower so unique that you think you own the rights to. Personally Jim, I don't think you have a leg to stand on and I hope SAS challenges you the whole way. I know I would. As I said before, SAS lower does not look or resemble yours in any way, just being a 1 piece design makes it 100% different (and better for that matter) And the fact that your lower mates up to the MKA means you used the same dimensions as the original MKA lower so you invented nothing new aside from it being Aluminum,and I know for fact you don't hold the patent on Aluminum. Edited March 24, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Jim, What is the patent number? I want to actually put my eyes on the document and read it. Surely that's not a trade secret since it's public info on the USPTO web site, I just can't seem to locate it. Thanks! Read post above! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I read the post above and it didn't have a Patent Number listed, that's ok. Do you have Authorization from the USPTO to place "Patent Pending" on your Lowers? And if so, why have you chosen not to mark them as "Patent Pending" ? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I read the post above and it didn't have a Patent Number listed, that's ok. Do you have Authorization from the USPTO to place "Patent Pending" on your Lowers? And if so, why have you chosen not to mark them as "Patent Pending" ? Thanks! They ARE marked patent pending! And have been from the start! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brett248Vista 5 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Jim, I see that! I had to dig, everyone always posts photos of the other side. Thanks for pointing it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Hopefully our superior designed 1 piece lowers will be shipping this week and we can put this nonsense to bed. Finally… a MKA lower that does not have some ugly ass Pontiac Fire Bird rip-off logo that looks like a 3rd grader drew it plastered on one side and what looks like enough text to write a book plastered on the other. Oh, and screws holding it all together. Edited March 26, 2014 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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