As usual wrong target gone after

[magsite20 1,664]

People are getting killed so the fix is to train the cops.

 

Guy steals cigars, walking down the middle of the street, stopped by a cop, resists being detained, gets into a struggle with the cop, ends with being shot, dies.

Guy selling loose cigarettes on the street, stopped by cops, resists being detained, ends with being in a struggle with the cops, dies.

Kid playing with a real looking toy gun, ignores cops commands, ends with being shot, dies.

 

So the focus is now on better policing.

Not a campaign to get people to understand when told by a cop to do something to just go ahead and do it and argues the fine points of law later in court.

Not even a campaign to get people not to commit petty crimes.

Not a call for toy makers to make toys that look like toys not firearms.

The problem is the cops are poorly trained?

How stupid is it to die over a box of cigars or a handful of cigarettes?

 

Chances are if someone I didn't know pulled a toy that looked like this on me I'd be ready and even willing to shoot them.

[Ronin38 2,117]

But... but... it's not their fault! You're racist!

 

 

[XD45 7,124]

I just have a tiny issue with the "don't want to be killed, let cops do whatever they want" argument.

 

But by all means, let's have this argument again. Cause we all appreciate the chance to beat the drums some more.

[magsite20 1,664]

By all means feel free to act in accordance with your beliefs when dealing with the police.

 

My point is there are at least 3 recent cases of people who made a decision to not comply with the instructions of the police and all three died for their choice, over petty crimes.

 

My personal belief is

1^st don’t commit crimes,

2^nd if your stopped for whatever reason (crime or no crime) your better off to fight it (whatever it is) in a court with a judge than on the street with a cop,

better chance of walking out alive anyway.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

In short...

 

Obey

 

... that about sum it up?

 

And this is how we got to where we are. Just an observation.

[magsite20 1,664]

choosing a battleground where you can win is something most military people are trained for.

fight on the street with a cop or cops doesn't come to mind as a good choice for most people, but if it works for you go for it.

 

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Problem is, most people don't trust the courts. Deck is stacked all the lawyers that work trivial cases are friends with the prosecution and judges.. They're looking for the highest profit potential,namely a plea bargain and probation

Edited December 4, 2014 by poolingmyignorance

[SmilinEd 364]

4D,

 

Rush vindicated (12:35-12:45) your argument with the whole story of Eric Garner's arrest..

 

Most times we do not have all the facts...

[thebuns1 4,323]

[Spartacus 1,619]

...............

 

Guy steals cigars, walking down the middle of the street, stopped by a cop, resists being detained, gets into a struggle with the cop, ends with being shot, dies.

 

................

Not even a campaign to get people not to commit petty crimes.

 

..........................

 

 

Let me re-word your narrative of the Michael Brown incident to more accurately reflect what happened:

 

Guy strong arm robs store (threatened shop keeper, felony, NOT simple shop lifting), walking down the middle of the street, stopped by a cop, resists being detained, punch to cop's face, felony assault on cop, fights for cops gun thereby threatening cop's life, another felony. Felon gets shot and dies in the act of a violent felony assault on a police officer.

 

Isn't that more accurate?

 

Let's not sum this up as "too bad the kid died over a petty theft".

That's not even close to what happened.

[magsite20 1,664]

granted yours is more accurate as to all the events

I wasn't thinking in terms of too bad

more along the lines of pretty damn stupid to get killed for a box of cheap cigars

but it was his choice/s that made the moment happen.

so now the focus is on training the cops not the choices the criminals make

guess they (elected types) know you can't fix crime so tell the public you're going to retrain cops till people of color don't get shot, seems like that may take a while if they keep committing crimes.

[SmilinEd 364]

more better...

 

http://www.sfbayview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/the-framing-of-mumia-cover.jpg

Edited December 4, 2014 by SmilinEd

[David Mark 2,452]

Did anyone else hear that Eric Garner (the New York "chokehold" guy) Had 31 previous arrests?

 

31 previous arrests!

 

Maybe after, say 10, we should stop letting these guys back on the street?

[Spartacus 1,619]

Did anyone else hear that Eric Garner (the New York "chokehold" guy) Had 31 previous arrests?

 

31 previous arrests!

 

Maybe after, say 10, we should stop letting these guys back on the street?

 

Yep, catch and release.

 

Would be nice to see violent felons especially do serious time instead of a slap on the wrist and being "sent out to play" again.

 

You have the bangers in Chicago and many other urban areas with long rap sheets for violent crime still out on the street.

Then when they start shooting cops and four year old kids in the park, there's a cry to "do something about the guns".

 

I've lived in my neighborhood since 1986 and everybody is armed (figured that out over the years). Never had anybody shot or killed. Never.

A few square miles in the city have shootings every day and the libs think the solution is to ban guns in the whole state.

 

Yeah, sure.... that's it, ban all the guns and let the bangers run wild.

 

Fuckin' criminals.... fuckin' libs.... fuckin' criminal libs....     

 

Sorry.... rant over.

[SmilinEd 364]

Yeah but, Mr. Garner wasn't a violent Felon. His arrest record was misdemeanors with the most serious crime being possession...

 

The cops showed up not to arrest him but to chase him away, you see he was selling lucies (single cigs) in front of businesses that sold cigs. The minority business owners called the cops, hurting their sales.

 

Rush said the Black Female Sgt that was on the scene gave the order to take Mr. Garner down.

 

Minority Business owners + Black Cop = dead black guy.

 

If we are going to hold the police responsible for Mr Garner death, then we should also hold responsible those who bought lucies/cigs from Mr. Garner.

 

Rush said in the yr 2013 NYPD made 228,000 misdemeanor arrests in the city and no one died in those arrests 

 

Just saying   

[thebuns1 4,323]

I have no sympathy for criminals, but I also have no respect for kingshit cops that demonstrate poor self control, have a shitty moral character and expect me to kiss their ass simply because of their job.

 

They can both fuck off imo.

[JoeAK 337]

Not a great picture, but just want to add an example.

 

One of these is real, the other is a "toy" (airsoft).

 

As far as looks go, there are only very minor differences, and to even notice those you have to pretty familiar with the real thing.

 

I've heard of several stories of people being shot because they were screwing around with airsoft guns, so far all of the shootings were justified imo, you just don't have the time to take a closer look to find those tiny differences.

 

[SmilinEd 364]

Hero,

 

I confess, I live in the sticks, any LE that I have any exposure to have been pleasant and have reduced my speeding tickets so I won't receive points ... No exposure to big city LE.

 

But I also treat ppl with respect whether they have a badge or not. 

 

Some become who they associate with, cops/criminals. But I believe not the opposite.

 

AKJoe, Thats why I asked who sacrificed that 12yr old over in Cleveland..??? I would want to know who sent him outside with that piece...???

Edited December 4, 2014 by SmilinEd

[thebuns1 4,323]

I don't mind cops so long as they are not assholes or hypocrites, but I won't trust them.

[DogMan 2,343]

Whether anyone should "obey" a cop depends on the situation. If you are acting a fool you should do it. If  a cop wants to feel your wife's titties in exchange for letting her off the hook with something she should not. There are a lot of other examples. Don't get me started.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Exactly, make it count and dont be foolish. 

 

If this shit were easy all countries would be free, it aint and so very few ever were and none of them are any longer.

 

The list of legitimate grievances against the State has grown very long and everyone has been affected at some time.

 

Some citizens choose paths others deem unwise, some are every bit as evil as the State itself, most of us just wonder what we can do when our point is reached.

 

Tough question and I aint running down anyone that reaches their's. 

 

The time is upon us all where being labeled "law abiding" does not mean what it once did.

God save us from that bunch.

[Spartacus 1,619]

Yeah but, Mr. Garner wasn't a violent Felon. His arrest record was misdemeanors with the most serious crime being possession...

 

The cops showed up not to arrest him but to chase him away, you see he was selling lucies (single cigs) in front of businesses that sold cigs. The minority business owners called the cops, hurting their sales.

 

Rush said the Black Female Sgt that was on the scene gave the order to take Mr. Garner down.

 

Minority Business owners + Black Cop = dead black guy.

 

If we are going to hold the police responsible for Mr Garner death, then we should also hold responsible those who bought lucies/cigs from Mr. Garner.

 

Rush said in the yr 2013 NYPD made 228,000 misdemeanor arrests in the city and no one died in those arrests 

 

Just saying   

 

Yep, fair enough on Garner having only minor offenses if that's the case.

 

In his case, it still wasn't the cigs that were the problem. It was the resisting arrest.

From the video, it would seem to be "resisting without violence", very different from the Michael Brown case.

 

Also to be fair, there is a problem with cops dog piling on a suspect and crushing the air out of him.

 

If you ever watch COPS, the suspects say "I can't breathe!", and the standard response from the

cops is, "If you can talk, you can breathe.". Smart-ass response and not true. Just because the perp

can squeak out a few words doesn't mean he has enough oxygen to stay conscious.

 

I'm no legal expert, but I can see some problems with how Garner was treated.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

The cops in this country need to be knocked down several notches. By that I mean they need to stop thinking they are the MILITARY. They don't need 95% of the military hardware that they currently have. They don't need to be wearing K-pots or multi cam. They don't even need select fire weapons or MRAPs. They are civilians just like you and me. No different and no special privileges. Their job is to keep the peace and extend law and order. Not play Gestapo. Yes, they do usually have to deal with the shit segment of our society and that is a hard thing to do.

Having said that, face down brown was a violent criminal. When he had his hand on officer Wilsons gun HE WAS NO LONGER UNARMED. At that point he was an armed felon attempting to kill a peace officer. He got what was coming and so did ex fukhead trayvon. Fat ass garner died because he was a fat cardiac impaired diabetic. If he was saying "he couldn't breath" he was in fact breathing. Can't breathe, can't talk. If he got a face of pepper spray the results would have been the same. He was still breaking the law and resisted arrest knowing he was breaking the law. I have no problem resisting if you are NOT breaking the law or using deadly force if the JBTs are in your house with a gun in your face after they just killed your dog and they are in the wrong house. If you point a fake gun at me I will shoot you because that is a threat, implied or not. Don't do that shit unless you can deal with the response and the "child aspect" is bullshit on several levels. When we were kids and we actually looked like kids, we had real looking toy guns and bb or pellet guns. We knew then that you were batshit crazy if you pointed one at a cop because his gun WAS real. We also respected law enforcement and didn't break the law unless you could deal with the consequences.

Bottom line, the cops need to be just cops again and people need to take personal responsibility for their actions. If you're a fuck up, plan on getting fucked up. The rest of us give zero shits about what you did or didn't get. Life ain't fair but that doesn't give you Carte Blanche to be an asshole.

[sccritterkiller 473]

Joe AK is correct not much difference in airsof and the real thing other than the blaze orange tip. Removing it or painting it is just asking for trouble IMO. I told my son when he got his if the orange tip comes off it will be my airsoft gun. Little easier to tell the "toy" in the photo below.

 

 

[termite 463]

County sheriffs pulled a guy over today out in our parking lot, (black dude, 3 white sheriffs 1 black), the guy got out of the car, raised his hands, then put them on the hood, ALL the sheriffs seemed to "respect" him, and it seemed that the guy even returned it, even though they did find a shit load of xanax, lortab, and oxy in his car. Wasn't no yelling and screaming and slamming to the ground, it was all civilized (for a change). The guys mother even drove up and parked to watch it all from her car, the sheriffs went up and talked with her and I guess explained what was going on, because she was nodding her head and then shaking it side to side.

 One of the sheriffs even walked up into the shop to talk with us, when we asked him about what was going down, he said that they had warned the dude lots of times, but he wouldn't listen, and this time it bit him in the ass, so evidently they had cut him slack on other stops.

 Just wish that BOTH parties could always act like this, things would go a lot better for all, and those interested, I was next door in the muffler shop that's beside my shop, which is owned by a black guy, and EVEN he said that the black dude was in the wrong and that the sheriffs worked this one correctly.

[vulcan16 971]

[SmilinEd 364]

Okay

[lumberman 116]

There are many good police officers out there. Got to spend some time this afternoon with some from my town who ran the DARE program at the kid's school today. Good people who love their community. I'm happy we have officers like this here.

However, that's not always the case. It really is in selection and training. I had a friend who became a deputy sheriff back in the 90's. As a rookie he told me he couldn't wait to get in his first firefight. He got his job through political connections. Enough said.

At my final interview to become a state conservation officer with several rather intimidating gentlemen drilling me with questions that might make many cave, I got the "one".

"In this job it may be necessary to take the life of another human being. What are your feelings about that?"

I told them about my friend and that I felt anyone with this attitude had no business being in law enforcement. I then told them that to preserve other's lives, including my own, might necessitate doing just that. I certainly would never want to take another's life. It would be the most terrible thing to have to do but to preserve other's lives, unfortunately, I would.

I was hired.

I fell in love with the most wonderful woman in the world and quit.

Long story short -- There are many good cops. Please don't fixate on the bad ones!

[Ronin38 2,117]

JoeAK- I'm familiar with many types of firearms, but the only "AK" I own is my S-12. I have no freakin' clue which one of those is the real one! 

 

sccritterkiller- I've heard "rumors" (not confirmed) that some goblins were painting the tips of real guns orange to "fool the cops." 

 

 

And don't get me started on the Duracoat paint-jobs available these days. The idiot-Libs want to "pass a law that all toy guns be painted bright colors."  BWAHAAHAAA!!

[magsite20 1,664]

I've hit a point where if I was giving a child a toy gun it would have to be clearly a toy, by shape and color, Nerf comes to mind. Pretty sad state when even a Red Rider BB gun might get a child shot by mistake.