XD45 7,124 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well, the exemption was removed but since the SS109 bullet doesn't actually meet the definition of armor piercing (being that most of the core is lead) it doesn't need an exemption. But facts and the law aren't really relevant in this case. Did I say "in this case"? I meant to say "to this government". 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Seems the public comment process is a complete sham... the surprise almost killed me. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 Edit: Basically the printed regs already show the round banned. THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Seems the public comment process is a complete sham... the surprise almost killed me. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 Edit: Basically the printed regs already show the round banned. THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!! Yes indeed they are That might help us! A reasonable honest person would think so as it does reveal intent. Are there any of those still in government? Edited March 7, 2015 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Just saw this on TTAG. It almost looks like the ATF is backing off and trying to play this all off as a misunderstanding. If that's the case, WTF. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/robert-farago/breaking-atf-claims-m855-ban-was-a-publishing-error Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well if that's the case, must suck to be one of the people that recently payed $0.60/rd for M855. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Basically, "we let the cat out of the bag too soon. Please return to sleep so we may try to sneak by again later" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Keep in mind the M2AP 30-06 Is no longer on the exempt list either. So the ATF Is killing 2 birds with one stone. While were all saying stop the M855 Ban, they're trying something sneaky with M2AP.http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdfIn the 2005 publication (above), pages 165 and 166, M855 and M2AP are NOT listed as AP ammo, and yet the ATF found it necessary to list them specifically as EXEMPT.Jump to the new publication where again M855 and M2AP are NOT listed as AP ammo, and now the ATF DELETED the section exempting M855 and M2AP completely.The ATF now claims it was all just a publishing error, and it will be cleared up ASAP.Will the M2AP be specified as exempt too? https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Publications/notice_of_publishing_error.pdfNOTICE OF PUBLISHING ERROROn Feb. 13, 2015, ATF released for public comment a proposed framework to guide itsdetermination on what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes" for purposes ofgranting exemptions to the Gun Control Act’sprohibition on armor piecing ammunition.Theposted framework is only a proposal, posted for the purpose of receiving public comment, and nofinal determinations have been made.Media reports have noted that the 2014 ATF Regulation Guide published onlinedoes not containa listing of the exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, and conclude that the absence of thislisting indicates these exemptions have been rescinded. This is not the case.Please be advised that ATF has not rescinded any armor piercing ammunition exemption, and thefact they are not listed in the 2014 online edition of the regulations was an error which has nolegal impact on the validity of the exemptions. The existing exemptions for armor piercingammunition, which apply to 5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 projectiles (identified by a greencoating on the projectile tip), and the U.S .30-06 M2AP projectile (identified by a black coatingon the projectile tip), remain in effect.The listing of Armor Piercing Ammunition exemptions can be found in the 2005 ATFRegulation Guide on page 166, which is postedhere.The 2014 Regulation Guide will be corrected in PDF format to include the listing of armorpiercing ammunition exemptions and posted shortly.The e-book/iBook version of theRegulation Guide will be corrected in the near future.ATF apologizes for any confusion causedby this publishing error. Edited March 8, 2015 by ChileRelleno 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Well, now that the 5.56 ammo is fixed, lets see them remove the ban on 7N6 since it doesn't meet the classification of AP as well. *Edit to add sarcasm is oozing from this post Edited March 7, 2015 by VR6Shooter 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sobrenegade 795 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Tin Foil Hat Time! Now that they have the names on the stop the ban public comment, they can update their list to see how many more new ones they have, compared to us regulars. Every time I have surgery I have to throw my name at someone. They must be treating me like the office joke. "Geez Bob, this guy really wants us to come get him, let's match this up with the representative's list". They knew all along since last year what they planned to do. I'd call them slimeballs, but that would be disrespectful of slimeballs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Looks like the atf started a fire under their own ass. Good for them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) This is a done deal. With the emperor pulling the strings behind the scenes, anybody think the atf puppets won't dance? https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150306/astroturf-in-the-rose-garden From Josh Earnest, White House Press Mouthpiece: Obama "has long believed that there are some common sense steps that we can take," Earnest said. "Everyone should agree that if there are armor-piercing bullets available that can fit into easily concealed weapons, that it puts our law enforcement at considerably more risk." https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150306/anti-gunners-lie-to-promote-batfe-ammo-ban From Obama Campaign Secretary Marjorie Clifton: M855 ammunition "has been used in every mass shooting we've had in the country over past years." This is only the beginning. With each oppression he gets bolder. There is no backbone in the "republican" congress. The democraps still run the show. 4 of the 9 "justices" on the supreme court will back ANYTHING he does and 2 more are squishy "moderates" that aren't governed by the Constitution. Edited March 8, 2015 by Darth Saigus 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 So if I recall correctly didn't the SCOTUS strike down the EPA lead bullet ban? (hope that's a dead topic) Because if not, and they can classify any amount of steel in a pistol bullet "AP"... that's end game for all ammo. Might as well declare guns illegal all together, and we know where a situation like that will lead us... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 So if I recall correctly didn't the SCOTUS strike down the EPA lead bullet ban? (hope that's a dead topic) Because if not, and they can classify any amount of steel in a pistol bullet "AP"... that's end game for all ammo. Might as well declare guns illegal all together, and we know where a situation like that will lead us... There is part of me that says "let them, over reach is ever the bane of tyrants". Its the same part that tires of trying to keep the train from going over the cliff and says hell lets just push the bitch over and get down to it... Not all ammo and of course dont sell innovation short, not that any of that political treason is acceptable. Right now I am very impressed with what is happening with other alloys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Innovation can't overcome the pen of the tyrant. Things that were tinfoil fantasy a few years ago are happening every day. Shit that you expect from third-world dictators is happening right here, right now. The entitlement mentality has blinded the populace to tyranny. As long as the government checks don't bounce the tyrants will keep getting reelected. The sheep won't risk losing their dole for over something as meaningless as freedom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 So if I recall correctly didn't the SCOTUS strike down the EPA lead bullet ban? (hope that's a dead topic) Because if not, and they can classify any amount of steel in a pistol bullet "AP"... that's end game for all ammo. Might as well declare guns illegal all together, and we know where a situation like that will lead us... There is part of me that says "let them, over reach is ever the bane of tyrants". Its the same part that tires of trying to keep the train from going over the cliff and says hell lets just push the bitch over and get down to it... Not all ammo and of course dont sell innovation short, not that any of that political treason is acceptable. Right now I am very impressed with what is happening with other alloys. If it's not made of lead, it's got to be made of what? Ceramic with a copper jacket? Hmmm... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Innovation can't overcome the pen of the tyrant. Things that were tinfoil fantasy a few years ago are happening every day. Shit that you expect from third-world dictators is happening right here, right now. The entitlement mentality has blinded the populace to tyranny. As long as the government checks don't bounce the tyrants will keep getting reelected. The sheep won't risk losing their dole for over something as meaningless as freedom. Well pretty much my point concerning a lot of things to do with government, those sharing a state of mind to hold liberty dear are woefully outnumbered by those willing to live life as cattle. It may well be pushing that sucker over the edge is the only way out, the longer it goes on seemingly the worse it will be. There has been plenty of time to get ready, if that is even possible. Innovation has always provided that which would be denied. Sometimes it's all ya got. Yeah copper and surprisingly brass and god only knows what, so not all ammo. Until the Europeans ran out of wood no one thought of burning coal. Thats about as hopeful as I can get Edited March 9, 2015 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Powdered steel mixed with a bake hardening resin as a bonding agent would not be AP as it is not steel but rather a plasticized compound.. The law only bans cores completely made from steel, if you mix the steel with something then it becomes something else as a sort of cement, then it is something else. I have a swagged twisted steel wire cored projectile I'm still mulling on. Basically my idea is to use the wire as a sort of expanding core thus getting to a different exemption. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Guys don't forget this is happening too! https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/378 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NM0 586 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Without hijacking the thread...how is "enhanced body armor" dangerous? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 The only incident I can recall where a major crime was committed while wearing armor was the north Hollywood shooting back in the 90's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Citizens wearing armor is a scary idea. To tyrants. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NM0 586 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Citizens wearing armor is a scary idea. To tyrants. That's it huh? Always thought body armor was designed for safety...not for fear mongering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Guys don't forget this is happening too! https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/378 Six Dems have signed on so the bill is pretty much political chattel with no chance. For no other reason than it would make private security subject to loss of it's use, remember that is fairly important to the privileged elite. The only incident I can recall where a major crime was committed while wearing armor was the north Hollywood shooting back in the 90's. There have been many others just none that were live on TV. Unless all those no-knocks are considered crimes. Still a couple of sets of IIIA wouldnt be a terrible idea, IV better. Stuff is a real pita to wear though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I guess the idea is someone could buy armor that makes them completely bullet proof from police rifle rounds.. Having looked around a LOT yesterday.. I can tell you that this is not something that is even a likely event let alone something a law is needed for. Armor that is over Level III is pretty much insanely heavy and limits you to covering small areas.. So its a non-issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Maybe they are afraid of someone building their own iron man suit? What did Tony Stark call it? An "enhanced prosthesis". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Maybe they are afraid of someone building their own iron man suit? What did Tony Stark call it? An "enhanced prosthesis". Here's a start: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/raytheon-xos-2-exoskeleton-us/ http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/hulc.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Look we all know it HAS NOTHING to do with safety from crime in general. This is about gutting the second amendment. They know how hard it is to kill bunch of goat farmers and rice growing villagers who are broke as fuck. Imagine how impossible it would be to defeat a US uprising. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SmilinEd 364 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Look we all know it HAS NOTHING to do with safety from crime in general. This is about gutting the second amendment. They know how hard it is to kill bunch of goat farmers and rice growing villagers who are broke as fuck. Imagine how impossible it would be to defeat a US uprising. Hopefully we do not have to reach the level of a bunch of broke ass goat/rice farmers to turn this ship. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hopefully we'll fight as hard as the goat herders and our own founding fathers if it comes to that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 No surprise this is coming, but it sure sucks to see it in print..... 52 senators warn of sweeping ammo bans, say Second Amendment 'at risk' http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/52-senators-warn-of-sweeping-ammo-bans-say-2nd-amendment-at-risk/article/2561295 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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