poosh507 21 Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well I kinda polished and profiled the bolt 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 See that top picture you just posted? Take the bolt like that and drag your thumb nail along it. Feel the snag at the joint? That's how the front edge of a shell do... Now put the bolt in the gun. Hold a sharpie up the magwell and move the bolt back. See how it made a diagonal line on the bolt head? That's how the bolt needs to be smoothed to go over a shell as it rotates... ok well i think i will save the mag destruction for after the conversion and paint job. but definitely something i will try and play with one day. if you couldn't tell already im pretty young so i enjoy my lil projects and such, but my progress will depend on my funds...so once school is out i should be able to make more progress on this. i am quite excited! I keep telling myself something similar, but I am well out of school now and still just scraping by. I hope you do better. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey a piece of advice that cost me an S-12 bolt to learn... STOP trying to do this yourself and save up the money to send to a pro who has experience. GunFun it's awful nice of you to try and coach these people through re-profiling and polishing their irreplaceable parts but seriously bro... These newbies are not aware of the dangers of doing this kind of modification and do not have the experience, knowledge, proper technique, or ability that only comes from experience to know exactly how far is too far on the 4 to 6 main critical surfaces. But I guess you can just keep on happily grinding & sanding away til you learn the hard way. Will only cost you a whole new shotgun if you destroy the bolt.... no prob. I am NOT a fan of "tutorials" for noobs on this type of critical work. I went out of my way and pissed as many people off as I could when pauly tried that shit years ago. Yeah sure, many thought I was being self serving and just wanted people's money. Whatever... I know that's BS and that's all that matters. I don't care who they send their stuff to, even if my work is the best. That is their choice. I do however see it as MY moral responsibility to try my best to advise people on things I know as much or more than anyone about, that is why I've been doing these mods for close to ten years now. Carry on... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well how much do you charge? And how can I order/send parts in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 And I do appreciate your help gunfun. All your advice has helped tons. And I did grind and polish more of the bolt and the whole carrier. Once I get home I can post more pics but my thumbnail runs pretty seamlessly over the bolt now and I smoothed and angled the part of the carrier that cocks the hammer. It has definitely made the action smoother. And as far as giving advice and tutorials I think it's awesome that you do. Its your choice to make and it's other people's choice to follow them or to buy a service. I say keep doing what you're doing. And the people giving the service. Its awesome that you do but if people want to its there money and risk and I may buy the service. But I do think it's good to let people try themselves so they can gain that "experience" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey just to be clear here I wasn't fishing for business, but more so expressing a hard learned opinion on putting out DIY advice all over the web for just anyone to read one time then get overly excited and end up ruining a part or even worse, creating a very dangerous situation for some unsuspecting person who has to deal with the aftermath. It may not always be the one who mods the parts either. What often happens is after someone goes all DIY on something they end up selling it on the web to someone else who has no idea what they are getting, or what they might be in for... I get parts in for service all the time after people have read some post on here usually or seen something on youtube, then gone hawgwild with a dremel and made a huge mess before giving up. Sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes not. Just like building a house it's always best to take the job and do it correctly from the ground up, not take over an out of level, out of square, all screwed up structure at a later stage and try to get it to pass inspection. All that said I'll of course be happy to receive parts already started by others, and do it quite often, like a few sets coming in now started by "he who'll remain nameless". No matter what stage they are at, as long as the critical areas haven't been destroyed beyond safe, I can finish them better than anyone will. Send a PM if interested and pics please. What people don't realize when they go into all that grinding and such is for one, the pocket for the bolt head actually runs very deep inside the bolt body, and is very easy to break through into if you try and create a straight line from the neck (where the bolt stem stops) to the foot of the bolt head. That's just one of the first obvious problems too. There are many... Some will render the weapon completely useless, other very unsafe. I stand behind what I said about trying to tell strangers you don't know a thing about, how to go about making critical modifications to a machine that is made to handle and contain small explosions and sending projectiles flying. It's just not cool and it's not safe... or morally correct IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 GunFun it's awful nice of you You did that, before it was your business. Afterward too, for a while. Weird how that seems to change perspectives on what is DIY material... Are you sure you want to publicly lecture me about that? We're friends, and you do good work, but I won't be chastising people for taking things into their own hands and working to figure things out-- i.e. the very basis of how EVERY pro builder or tech got started. There is still a good thread here on how to do it, with your advice on how to do that afterall. Moreover, I didn't give him a guide, so much as pointed out how to think about the project he already undertook on his own. It is a risky task that not everyone should take on, but it is not impossible either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Whoa brother back up some there I'm not trying to chastise you for helping folks. What I'm saying is there are some things I think are wrong to throw out there on the open web for just anybody to take on. Certainly a few critical things to do with this particular job that ANYONE attempting to do so needs to know first ALL the risks involved. That isn't likely to happen with folks who often come here the same day they get an S-12 then grab a dremel and start grinding away. Yes I indeed did give some advice very early on about hammer and B&C profiling. It was not until I did start doing it as a business and also realized the risks involved when some of these guys I saw posting certain comments here, as well as actually having to try and fix some of their bungled work that I decided not to ever encourage that again. Yes of course it does cost me and others in the business work and money every time we miss work because of a "tutorial" but that doesn't change the fact many many people have read things on the forum and elsewhere causing them to really screw up their guns. Around the same time I got some good advise from Jack and a few other well known builders that it was not a good practice to go around assuming just anyone can pick up a tool and read instructions, look at a few pics, and go to work on certain types of home "gunsmithing". You probably remember me getting into it heavily on here with "that other guy" and taking down a lot of pics I used to have posted as well. Yes we are indeed friends and I'm not lecturing you or trying to embarrass. What I'm attempting to do here is curb a problem I see happening again before it gets out of hand and another gun gets ruined. Those pics I saw (before "further grinding") tell me all I needed to see. Anything past there is too much already... I do seriously wish folks would learn the difference between what is safe DIY material and what is not. Many people I've seen post have barely even handled power tools before attempting this stuff and it's really sad seeing the results sometimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heartbreaker 1,085 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Cobra and Gunfun, I understand both your views. While it's good to learn by doing and making mistakes, it's better to do it on something common and cheap. You can also learn from the experience and advice of others who have already made the mistakes so that you don't have to. I myself don't feel comfortable modding such an important part (despite being mechanically inclined and having converted/slighted modded my Saiga 12), so I sent it to Cobra. Doesn't mean everybody has to, but to attempt such mods you should have previous similar experience for best results and safety. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with heartbreaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 True Was definitely not trying to start a pissing contest with you GunFun. That kind of crap costs me even more time I don't have when I'm supposed to be working on parts. I do hate seeing the results coming through my shop on a regular basis because people got in over their heads after reading some tutorial or watching some video. No doubt they cost me lots of work all the time even though some ends up here eventually anyway, but that still isn't my main reason for not wanting to post or see DIY stuff posted here for this one particular critical operation I happen to know about well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I will say that all of the videos I have seen with high traffic on saiga mods are at best misguided, and really are harmful advice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lambert58 22 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 As for sights and accuracy it shot 4in groups with slugs and the iron sights at 50 yards. And the tapco double hook seems pretty swee, And worth the time. It took me a bit to find the link because I check the forum on my phone and the signatures don't show up. But those posts are awesome and I will do the mods. Oh and for the furniture I think I will make my own. I already drew up some designs when I did the ones for the drum design. You can get more accuracy out of your S20 with a FSP near muzzle end.It creates a longer sight radius. I picked up one on Ebay from Russian Federation for 59 shipped.You just clamp it on the end tightening the screws.You then have an adjustable front sight. My S 20s will cut the center out at 50 yd. They are awesome shotguns and fun to tinker with! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ok well once I convert it I'll see about one of those. Sounds like a good idea. And I think I will stay clear of red dots Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Those are the only pictures I could attach. I will add more soon. But the conversion is finnished and runs perfect! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lambert58 22 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Good job young man! Its fun isn't it? What kind of paint you use on the receiver? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks! I couldn't have done it without the help from this forum. And his is the paint, and I ground off all three external rivit heads but left one in (shown in pic) I didn't want an unnecessary hole...sadly I forgot to include how I did the "T-nut" for the grip. It was interesting without a cutting wheel on the dremel. I just drilled a large hole where it was going to go then used hand files. Pretty simple. And yes this is pretty fricken fun! And the finnished product Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Fun stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 FWIW, I've had poor results with VHT engine paint on several automotive projects. It only seems to hold up for 1-2 years where other brands I've used (that I can no longer easily find) have held up for 7-8. It may hold up just fine on your gun (in fact, it probably will as long as gun solvents don't take it off), but if you do another in the future or need to repaint, consider going with another brand. Nice job on it though. Sounds like you've got it dialed in. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 cooked off of my bike exhaust in minutes too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 My Saiga 20 is a perfect girlfriend gun. Less recoil than my 12, and honestly I think it is less sensitive to ammo variance than the 12. I use the CSSPECS mags, they work great. As for red dot, a side-rail mount is the best way to go, but there are a lot of product options and all are pretty crappy. The "best house in a bad neighborhood" is the GG&G model, but you can probably get by with a UTG for 1/3 the price since it IS just a shotgun and doesnt really require pinpoint accuracy. Also, mine came with no muzzle thread; I'm in the process of ordering tooling to rectify that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thanks for the info on the paint. I think I'll just sandblast the whole gun when I go to do the paint job. I'm not sure about any muzzle device at the moment. I was thinking about one of those bolt on shotgun brakes but I haven't seen any reviews on them. But at this point I'm just going to bring the gun into the shop sometime and sandblast it so I can get to work on the paintjob. Oh and is there anyway to drift the rear sight? It's shooting to he right by alot. It groups well but not were I want it to... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 If you mean the SGM clamp on things, those look clunky as hell. I would steer clear of any muzzle device that isn't either direct thread or permed on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I was looking at the wittmachine brakes. But I could see why I would want to stay away from them.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's only a 20 anyway. A choke is going to be way more useful than a brake/comp. Put that shot where it needs to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yeah sounds more practical. I'll have it threaded for rem choke 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I have a poly choke on my S12 (has the long barrel). It's ok, but if you go to www.saigastock.com you can buy a set of Russian thread-on chokes that use the factory metric muzzle thread. I'm actually planning to set mine up as a home def shotgun, so I'm putting a dinzag brake on mine (also ordered the tooling to thread my muzzle), but I've been debating replacing my S12 poly choke with a set of fixed choke and just putting on whatever one I need at the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Rem choke would be far preferable to me. IIRC, his 20 is not threaded. If I were adding threads to a shotgun, and put on external threads instead of internal, you could assume a horse finally succeeded in kicking me in the head. Way more options, superior choke geometry, chokes are cheaper, looks better, internal flush fit means you don't necessarily have to add length to your gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) My Saiga 20 is a perfect girlfriend gun. I find the girlfriends don't always go down on the first, or even second, round out of 20ga... This is why I have a .45 in my nightstand. (I kid! I kid!) Thanks for the info on the paint. I think I'll just sandblast the whole gun when I go to do the paint job. I'm not sure about any muzzle device at the moment. I was thinking about one of those bolt on shotgun brakes but I haven't seen any reviews on them. But at this point I'm just going to bring the gun into the shop sometime and sandblast it so I can get to work on the paintjob. Oh and is there anyway to drift the rear sight? It's shooting to he right by alot. It groups well but not were I want it to... I don't see any reason to sandblast the entire gun for a more elaborate paint job. I say that as a guy that used to have access to a few hundred horsepower of air compressors, a MASSIVE blast cabinet, and full legal permission from the company to use them as much as I wanted on my own time... Even given my situation in those days (which sounds sorta like yours) I'd hit it with a robust wire wheel on an angle grinder to knock off any loose stuff, scuff it with some 80 grit, and hit it with some filler primer. It will take 1/10th the time and be fine. I think the notion of using grill paint and shit like that on semi-autos is far overblown (it's never going to get that hot anyhow). Plus, you DO have a stamped steel AK in your hands when you're doing that... Gonna put some ivory grips on it too? Part of me just wants to tie my AKs to the bumper of my truck and drag them around in the gravel for 20 minutes, then clear coat. If you just want to sandblast stuff for the mindless "joy" of sand blasting, I'm about to have an entire pallet of dissassembled TJ on my hands. I'll pay postage for as much as you want to blast! ---- Jokes aside. Sweet gun! Do it up however you like, but I don't think "new" metal needs that level of prep to hold a good paint job. Edited July 5, 2015 by Maxwelhse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poosh507 21 Posted July 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Well I work at a shop where I can sandblast whatever I want. So I figured why not just get it down to bare metal to do the paintjob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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