Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I've shot steel shot through my Saiga 12, but never any lead. Is lead shot okay for it? I would think it would be, considering you can shoot lead slugs. I'm not exactly rich right now, so lead is more economical... What kind of things do you guys blow up? I have a 19" threaded Saiga 12, and all it seems good for is home defense and shooting slugs. I'd get the chokes, but as I said, I'm poor right now... Oh yeah, what's the Paradox choke? Has anyone shortened their Saiga barrel to 16"? Were there any adverse effects? I've been thinking about making a thumbhole stock, is there any other wood I could use besides walnut?(for some reason I can't find this crap) I bet pine would split, right? Does anyone else think that the saiga 12 would be the perfect weapon for zombies? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 hahahaha i'm not sure i wanna see zombies roaming the land with saiga12 shotguns! (joke) i think one of the leo's shortened his barrel with no probs. for the rest of us slaves, that's a no-no... lead is fine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 hahahaha i'm not sure i wanna see zombies roaming the land with saiga12 shotguns! (joke) i think one of the leo's shortened his barrel with no probs. for the rest of us slaves, that's a no-no... lead is fine... Actually, I was thinking a Saiga 12 would be best for "defeating" the zombies. =D But, even if the zombies all had Saiga 12's they probably wouldn't know how to use them... so that would be kinda cool because then you'd have a replenishable source of ammo! ...and everyone in your group of zombie defeating marauders would be able to arm themselves with Saigas! That would be uber cool. So, is 19" the legal limit on a shotgun barrel? I figured it was 16" for all "long guns"... Great, so lead is okay! Cool, my 14 bucks to Walmart didn't go to waste. XD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaltPeter 6 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Actually, the Title I barrel limit for long guns is 16" for rifles, 18" for shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Actually, the Title I barrel limit for long guns is 16" for rifles, 18" for shotguns. Ahhh.... I guess it wouldn't be worth it for that one inch. That does make an internal choke tube mod much more desirable. Can you shoot anything like trap or skeet with the open choke(no choke) or is it too wide of a spread? I bought my saiga because I thought it was cool and would be a good HD weapon, but I've had it for a year and only went shooting with it twice. I want to shoot it, but I have no reason to... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 My 12 is 19" with improved cylinder choke. I shoot lots and lots and lots of skeet with mine. quite fun. use smaller shot sizes, though, is the only thing you should think of doing. the normal trap loads with the extra little bit of shot in em work great for me. just dont shoot lead shot over waterways or protected floodlands, is all. Ive put about 3000+ rounds through my 12, and have had zero adverse effects that werent my own doing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 My 12 is 19" with improved cylinder choke. I shoot lots and lots and lots of skeet with mine. quite fun. use smaller shot sizes, though, is the only thing you should think of doing. the normal trap loads with the extra little bit of shot in em work great for me. just dont shoot lead shot over waterways or protected floodlands, is all. Ive put about 3000+ rounds through my 12, and have had zero adverse effects that werent my own doing. So, I guess your saying, that I've got to get a choke in order to do anything fun with my saiga. I'm poor and can't afford the chokes right now. You don't have a threaded 19" right? What would be the best choke for trap and skeet then? Does cylinder mean no choke? So what then is Improved Cylinder? What are the purposes of Modified and Full? As you can tell, I don't know shotguns, I'm more into rifles... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Salmonaxe - You bon't need chokes to shoot anything.The choke is to make the shot pattern tighter. Also'paradox'choke is actually a short section of rifled barrel extension to shoot slugs more accuratly(paradox=a rifled SHOTGUN). Shoot lead no problem. It is steel that splits barrells. That is why you always want some kind of screw choke(even open) when shooting steel. When the end splits, just replace the choke! LOL G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 All the chokes you mentioned controll the rate of spread of your little lead soldiers. So use depends on what you are doing. Skeet is a game of close fast birds , so the less choke the better (you want it to open up fast). Trap is a game of longer distance with birds that fly directly away, so you want your pattern to open up more slowly. Turkey shooters prefer extremely tight chokes. Also, loser chokes often produce more accurate slug shots (second hand knowledge). Sporting clays offers a wide variety of clay presentations (close to far and all angles imaginable) and I know many shooters who made an effort to concentrate on the shots and not the shotgun set up. Most of them just put a Modified choke in and rarely changed (except for extremes). You can break close targets with full choke, it's just more of a challenge and a whole lot less forgiving. For instance, I've shot skeet with full choke before (all I had) and it probably cost me a few birds. (I'm not an accomplished skeet shooter). A fellow shooter is proud to let us all know he has a "compound mitre" choke. Took his shotty to the shop, cut the end off with a cm saw at one of the rib connections and blued the results. Pretty open pattern!!! But you don't have a lot of bbl to cut off before you commit a big no-no. Your shotty is set up fine for Trap. But don't think you can't do more with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaltPeter 6 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 If you're looking for some kind of fun to be had with your shotgun, check local gun clubs for an "action shotgun" type of competition. They are usually informal and very fun. They consist of contestants trying to move through a course and blast steel silhouette targets that fall down when hit hard enough. The Saiga 12 works great for that kind of thing because a reload or two is usually required during the course, and the Saiga's box magazines make it easy (once you practice a little). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Also, for HD, you don't want your choke too tight or too wide. Too tight and the advantage of a shotgun at range is negated. Too loose, and at medium range, your shot will not be concentrated in the vitals/torso area. Of COURSE the zombies need to have Saiga's as well, even if they can't use them. SOMEONE has to drop the ammo every time I make a kill! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Thanks for all the info guys! (Though I still don't know the difference between all the different choke types, why don't they use a numbering system? ... it would be easier to interpret.) Sounds like trap would be a lot of fun! Though, it seems that most of the places around here (Washington) require you to be a member of their club to shoot trap.... Saltpeter, that action shotgun competition sounds awesome! I'll have to look around to see if any places locally do that, because I don't think the range I go to is into that. I've been getting the impression that Washington is a bit uptight when it comes to firearms and it seems like Florida and Nevada are much cooler about it. So steel shot will split your barrel, even on a saiga? I don't understand the point of steel shot, it's more expensive, not as heavy, damages shotguns... is it just for environmental reasons? So, what's the best choke for blowing up watermelons? (joke) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 steel shot is for waterfoul. it is purely environmental. chokes...lets see, there is cylinder, which is no choke, there is improved cylinder, which is a tiny bit, modified, improved modified, then full. there is a full full choke too. basically, if you were to "pattern" your gun as its called, with cylinder at 10 feet, you might get a 12" pattern. imp. cyl. you would get a 10" pattern , mod about 9" imp mod 8" full 6" and full full or extra full is about 4-5" at ten FEET. it all depends what you do with your gun, and how finiky you are about it. turkey guns use full or extra full chokes, and the chokes have porting on them. these give the tightest patterns you can get really, and they put 3 1/2" buckshot loads out of them. this is to take that turkey's head clean off, or to place every pellet into its body. a turkey can take quite a wallop and still look at you like you are mad, and run on off. For fun and casual shooting, anything is fine. a full choke with buckshot will DEVASTATE a watermelon, but so will no choke at all....depends how far you are from it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Umm, (interjecting againwhere I'm not wanted, I'm sure ), but I thought pretty much all chrome lined shotguns were okay to use with steel shot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Does cylinder mean no choke? So what then is Improved Cylinder? What are the purposes of Modified and Full?I went out to a site that has a lot of shotgun info. I'd read specifics on chokes there a long time ago. Shotgunreport.com (no antiques, and no tactickle stuff, completely devoted to clays and hunting) Choke is defined by actual performance, not by measuring any constriction (although they are related). And different shells will throw different patterns out of the same gun. Anyway, this is the scoop. You measure choke by the percentage of pellets (so it's independant of shot size) in a 30 inch circle at 40yds. He has a lot of good advice. He goes on more about the chokes and their uses. Here's the link http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/Tech...e/9-Jun-03.html Some highlights: choke % in 30 inch circle at 40 yards improved cylinder 50% modified 60% full 70+% Since 70 % of pellets in a 30 inch circle is pretty effective, here are the rough distances that you should get 70% pellets in that circle. cylinder 20yds improved cylinder 25yds modified 30yds improved modified 35yds full 40yds (of course) Problem is that choke performance differs with each shell. I canabsolutely guarantee you that I can take a gun with a "modified" choke and get improved cylinder (50% into a 30" circle at 40 yards), modified (60%) and full (70+%) performance out of it by just changing shells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salmonaxe 0 Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Wow, that's some really useful information! Thanks guys!!! I never knew that different chokes were effecting spread over such a small distance. It seems like the only two you would need, would be cylinder and full chokes. Everything else seems like it would be too subtle to notice. The difference between shells and their effect on shot density makes sense. I would assume, that heavier shot will probably have a tighter pattern, as well as magnum loads. Sounds like my saiga would be perfect for eliminating watermelons! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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