OK here it is!

[pistonring8 1]

First, let me say that this is just the way I did it. In my opinion nobody else should EVER do anything that I do. A bullet comming out of the barrel of a rifle is death incarnate. Any attempt to modify your rifle should be done by a professional. By incorrectly attaching a muzzle device, you risk severe injury and DEATH! (mostly death)

 

I will be adding in the segments as replies because I'm not sure how to post multiple pics. Please dont reply in between. Ill be done soon.

 

With all of that being said, here is what I did. First, I measured from the innermost lip (the one the barrel catches on) and found it to be 1/2" from the lip to the end of the brake. So I measured 1/2" to be taken off the fsb and marked it by wrapping masking tape around the 1/2" mark.

 

If you are planning on threading the barrel, mark the cut to be made as far back the fsb as you can go. You can only go as far as the sight itself. (the part sticking up that you look through.)

[pistonring8 1]

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[pistonring8 1]

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[pistonring8 1]

Next, I checked the thickness of the metal surrounding the barrel. It looked close to 1/8" but to be sure, Im not even going to go that far.

[pistonring8 1]

I can make the cuts with either a dremmel or wizzer (pneumatic cutting wheel) For this project, I used both. The dremmel makes a nice narrow cut. And the wizzer makes a faster/ wider cut that allows you to see better into the groove. Since I wanted to pay very close attention to how deep I was going, I used the wizzer to cut around the edge of the tape. Then used the dremmel to slowly and carefully deepen the cut. (thats my bead blasting cabinet)

[pistonring8 1]

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[pistonring8 1]

Now there are two ways to finish this up. If your lucky enough to have a bearing seperater, all you gotta do is slip it on, line it up, and tighten it down in different angles all around the barrel until it goes <<<POING>>> and flies across the shop.

 

If not you will need to cut very close to the barrel. Stick something small in the cut like a little drill bit or file. And use a pair of vice grips or a C-clamp to force the piece into the groove. This will help to crack and separate the sleeve.

 

You can also make a relief cut vertically across the sleeve from the cut around the barrel to the end. (be careful of the barrel crown) I made this cut to show the hard way of doing it. This cut will give the steel room to flex and crack. You can use heat on the very tip of the sleeve to help in the process. Just be careful not to direct too much heat on the barrel.

[pistonring8 1]

Shit! I forgot. Make sure you wear safety glasses when cutting metal! And ofcourse, NEVER work on a loaded rifle (DUH)

[pistonring8 1]

Getting the sleeve off is the hardest part. Luckily it is not pressed on like the rest of the fsb. Once it is off, inspect the barrel thorougly. Its ok if you ground into it a little here and there. The barrel is very thick and can withstand being threaded. If you used a bearing separater there should be no marks on the barrel, because you didnt have to cut as deep to separate it.

[pistonring8 1]

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[pistonring8 1]

Now, you can thread the barrel, your all set! This particular muzzle brake looks like it will slip over the fsb as far as I want it to. It has a notch at the top that clears the sight, and a bubble at the bottom that clears the press pin fitting. But the barrel catches the innermost notch only 1/2" past the outermost notch. This is good, because if I poked it through any farther, the end of the barrel would already start to cover the first little hole on top of the brake. This is why I didnt try to force it in any farther.

 

I lined up the brake on the barrel and marked where the pin goes. I double checked the alignment by shining a flashlight through the action and looking through the brake. I could see a perfect circle all the way through to the fireing pin. (this would not come out in pictures)

 

Then I used the wizzer / dremmel to cut a small groove in the top where the pin goes and widened it with a file. I had to go back and file several times until the pin would fit ALL the way into the brake.

 

<<<edit>>> The pin alone will NOT hold the muzzle brake to the rifle. In test fireing, the brake was blown off the rifle after only a few rounds. If you are useing a pin on style brake I would highly recommend welding it to the fsb. A threaded brake is just as cheap as a pin on style, and will be much safer!

Edited January 28, 2005 by pistonring8

[pistonring8 1]

Once the pin was able to lock down into the brake securely, I put a few drops of locktite on it and let it dry. The pin that came with the brake is ok, but allows for a little bit of play in the brake. Cobra used the end of a 1/8" drill bit to secure his. I might do this as well if I notice any play in the piece after test fireing it. Thanks Cobra!

 

This is the piece of sleeve that you cut off, too bad you cant tell how deep you are cutting until its already off. BE CAREFUL!

 

<<<EDIT>>> [/color]The pin alone will not hold on the brake. Test fireing blew the brake off the rifle. You MUST weld it or use a threaded brake.

Edited January 28, 2005 by pistonring8

[pistonring8 1]

And this is the end result. I havent test fired it yet, but when I do I will let you guys know if everything came out ok. Like I said, I may have to use a piece of drill bit to make the pin fit tighter. But I wont know until after a few hundred rounds.

 

<<<EDIT>>> Test Fire: Brake was blown off after only a few rounds. You must weld it in place or use a threaded brake.

Edited January 28, 2005 by pistonring8

[pistonring8 1]

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[jon elia 0]

i figure thats all the pics and i have a question for someone who would know...if you put a brake on the saiga...like say a pin on break like pistonring's.....would it be legal to shorten the barrel have it recrowned mount the brake and then have it welded on to make the barrel 16.5 inches again?

it looks good pistonring you did a good job it wont help your frontheaviness any tho lol

[pistonring8 1]

LOL! Thanks for reminding me jon. Yes, you can shorten the barrel and use a PERMANANTLY attatched muzzle device to make up the difference. Ive seen lots of guys do this, as long as its fixed permanantly. The way you described attaching it should be fine.

[racerboy6996 0]

Awesome post.

This is the kind of stuff I need to read (and see pictures of) to fully understand what needs to be done.

 

Thank you for taking the time to document this.

[vulcan762 0]

Damn that looks like a lot of work for a pin on muzzle break.

 

Wouldnt it just be easer to pull the whole front sight, cut as needed and re-install?

 

For that matter if you pull the front sight you may as well replace it with a Bulgy threaded sight base and just screw on a real 74 type break. But then you would need a press which your not using here.

 

Well, it looks nice and doable with minimum tools. Nice rifle.

[pistonring8 1]

Yes, I would have just pressed off the fsb and put on a good one, or cut and reinstalled it. But so many of my comrads here have expressed thier desire to install a brake or thread the barrel without advanced tools. So I took a little extra time and did it the old fashioned way. I hope it helps. I will probably get tired of the Saiga fsb in the future and post a tutorial on pressing it off, to press on a thread adapter or something without a sight on it. See the post titled "whatever ton press" to see what kind of press you can use that is relatively cheap.

[hartzpad 0]

Good job. I wrote a thread on threading my 2 Saigas' barrels a few months ago. I didn't have the tools you have (just a dremel) but I was able to thread both of them and get them to look great. I took my pics down already, but you can see both them here in this pic:

 

 

Here is the thread:http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2004

[stokstad 4]

Looks good Pistonring. I was kinda hoping that thing would slip over the whole works. By the time you get all that cut off your just one step away from threading the barrel. Can you show a side view pic please. Looks good

[pistonring8 1]

Here is a side view for Stokstad

[pistonring8 1]

close up.

[racerboy6996 0]

just thought of something... am I still S.O.L. using this method because mine is a .308

 

2nd gunman told me I wouldnt be able to swap out to Bulgarian threaded FSB because it is too small for a Saiga 308.

 

The Bulgarian FSB is 14.5mm ID vs. 16mm ID (Saiga 308).

 

There's not enough material to ream/hone it out.

[ricardomagana 0]

Say if you buy those adapters that are $15 from

 

http://www.dynasystems-ltd.com/threadingkits.htm

 

You still need to do all the steps above, right? or do you just put it over the uncut part of the FSB?

 

Also, I know it's called FSB, but what does it stand for?

 

Ricky

Edited January 14, 2005 by ricardomagana

[pistonring8 1]

Holy Crap! What was that link supposed to be to? Anywhoo, FSB means Front Sight Block. I havent been able to find anything to fit OVER the Saiga FSB. So this is how to get to the bare barrel without a press or fancy tools. Honestly, it would be better to cut all the way back to the sight and have the barrel threaded. I dont have a fancy barrel threader and had already bought the muzzle brake hoping that it would fit over the fsb, so thats how I ended up doing things the hard way. You can cut off the entire fsb on the Saiga, but you would probably still have to press on your new muzzle device.

[pistonring8 1]

OK, got the link straight now. That looks like a great tool for threading. I would love to hear from someone who trys it. Although after the combined tool cost and shipping, I think I will stick with my good old pin on.

[Doerdie 0]

Friggin Stupid Bastards! Sorry, but thats what they are for not setting it an inch back .

pistonring8, what do you think of enlarging the brake to the FSB size, then pinning it on? I am wondering if the sleeve can handle the stress. You got the machining knowledge, whats your opinion? And what do you do for a living (ever thought of gunsmithing?)?

[pistonring8 1]

Ha Ha Ha! Gunsmithing?! Gee, I could get an online degree and stay home all day half assing muzzle brakes and piecing together shotgun stocks!

 

I wouldent try reaming out a muzzle brake. This one I used was very thick and heavy but it was machined very carefully on the inside. For a brake to do its job, the bullet has to just barely slip through the hole at the end (like a silencer) If you reamed it out with a lathe or drill press, you would run a risk of making it just enough off center to ruin it. Besides that, you still have to find a way to attach it.

 

Lets say you DO ream out a threaded or pin on style brake. And lets say that the alignment is perfect to the hole at the end. Now you have to attach it to the barrel somehow that wont allow it to pop off from catching and redirecting the muzzle blast.

Set screws are no good, you only have less than 1/8" to thread into. I have seen it done before, but dont want to try it on my rifle. How many threads can you get in a hole that deep? Or you could thread the fsb and the inside of the brake to match. Does that sound like more or less work than cutting off the fsb? And there is always weld or silver soldier. I dont know how well soldier holds, Ive seen it done alot. But remember, that will be the ONLY thing holding on your brake. Without a pin or threads I assume it would give over time. And welding is ...well... hot! Very hot! Weld is used alot on muzzle devices, but honestly it makes me nervous. I have a mig in my shop and a tig at work. I see an aweful lot of welding. I am always amazed at how much metal warps and twists when its welded. I guess I just dont have the balls to try it yet.

 

I'll leave all of those options to the professionals. I felt comfortable cutting off the little piece of fsb. I would be happier if I had one of those funky barrel threaders. But so far, I have a grand total of $13.00 wrapped up in my muzzle brake. And that is probably the main reason I chose the path that I took. Perhaps if I ever get more hard core about shooting, I will invest in a funky threader or press off the fsb to add a thread adapter.

 

<<<edit>>> The pin will not fit back in right if you ream out the inside diameter of the brake. It is the shape of the slots that hold the pin in tightly, and the pin depth is affected by the inside diameter of the muzzle brake. Therefore your pin will not go deep enough to hold the brake in place.

Edited January 14, 2005 by pistonring8

[hartzpad 0]

OK, got the link straight now. That looks like a great tool for threading. I would love to hear from someone who trys it. Although after the combined tool cost and shipping, I think I will stick with my good old pin on.

Piston, I used that exact kit. I rented it for $15 from a member of AK-47.net

 

It was very easy to thread the barrels with it.