Mudsock 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Has anyone fired and compared the Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle against the S-.308? I've heard all kind of praise about the S-.308 but what about the Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle. Correct me if I'm wrong but is the 7.62 x 54 the same as the .308? I found a supplier that has the Dragunov for $629 with scope. Now I know the biggest argument about the S-.308 is that it is made in Russia. This Dragunov is Romanian but how does it shoot compared to the the Saiga? Is it worth to cut up a Saiga and add the FCG, Stock, Muzzle Break, Pistol grip/stock configuation and Upper\Lower handguards to make the Saiga look like a want to be Dragunov? The Saiga goes for $360 shipped plus conversion cost am I comming out in the end? Bottom line is how do they shoot against each other? Correction to title: SVD to PSL Edited March 21, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 The S-308 is a 7.62x51 round where the SVD is a 7.62x54 round... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric86GT 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) If it's Romanian, it's probably a PSL/Romak III and not an SVD. An SVD is a different design than an AK, whereas a PSL/Romak III has an AK action. Edited March 21, 2006 by Eric86GT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) If it's Romanian, it's probably a PSL/Romak III and not an SVD. An SVD is a different design than an AK, whereas a PSL/Romak III has an AK action. You're correct. This guys ad titles it a SVD but discribes it as a PSL. Edited March 21, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A|G 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Mudsock, I guess it depends what your intended uses are. I think that the Saiga in .308 would be a little more versatile. The PSL is best suited as a long range rifle. I picked up a PSL a while ago and researched it heavily beforehand. If you're interested, I can shoot you some links. On a side note: I also have to say that everyone has an opinion, and many SVD owners seem to look down on the PSL. I'm not the best shot in the world, but I can tell you that most people will never come close to maximizing the potential of that rifle. I am very pleased with mine. A|G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Mudsock,I guess it depends what your intended uses are. I think that the Saiga in .308 would be a little more versatile. The PSL is best suited as a long range rifle. I picked up a PSL a while ago and researched it heavily beforehand. If you're interested, I can shoot you some links. On a side note: I also have to say that everyone has an opinion, and many SVD owners seem to look down on the PSL. I'm not the best shot in the world, but I can tell you that most people will never come close to maximizing the potential of that rifle. I am very pleased with mine. A|G Yeah do that for me, links. How do you like your PSL? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A|G 0 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Some things about my PSL that might help you decide for or against. - I paid $700 for mine with one mag, scope and scope cover. Not a very good deal, but gives you a reference point. - Mine did not have matching serial numbers on any of the parts, a big no no for collectors and anal-types. Still, the thing shoots like a champ. - The trigger sucks, but can be replaced with a Red Star, or whatever you want. - The stock is a little short, but has a built-in shock absorber. Cool! - The scope is not the best, especially in low light. You'd be better off getting a PSOP 8x or a K-Var mount to put your scope of choice on it. - There are some .308 Para versions out there. I've been told to avoid these by owners. As for links; some general info here: http://www.dragunov.net/romanian_psl.html Nice little write up here, though I can't agree with everything he says: http://www.headsbunker.com/html/2005/05/fi...manian-psl.html For collectors: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Roma...SniperRifle.asp Ammo: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm Please, don't be turned off by those who tell you it's a wannabe Dragunov. It's a good rifle. With a couple more bucks, a great rifle. I am not the best shot. In fact, I wouldn't even say I'm a good shot. The first time I shot a PSL, it was at an orange colored 10" steel plate 700 yards away. After the sighting system was explained to me, I fired. To my suprise, I hit it my first shot! No bragging. Just a shooting system that works. That pretty much sold me. A|G P.S. - I still plan on getting a Saiga .308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Some things about my PSL that might help you decide for or against. - I paid $685 for mine with TWO mags, scope and scope cover. I thought it was a pretty good deal, but gives you a reference point. - Mine had ALL matching serial numbers on ALL of the parts. - The trigger is awesome... for an AK trigger, smooth, 2 stage breaks crisp. - The stock IS a little short, but has a built-in shock absorber. and with the POSP scope it puts you where you need to be for proper sight picture. - The scope is DECENT, even in low light. You'd only be better off getting a PSOP 8x if you are not used to making long range shots with low magnification. I am comfortable shooting my 4x out to 500+M. without any problems at all. - There are some .308 Para versions out there. I've not heard anything bad or good about them, I cant comment. Please, don't be turned off by those who tell you it's a wannabe Dragunov. It is *NOT* a dragunov... but it still is an EXCELLENT Rifle... My last time Out shooting, I was shooting at a crow at 400M. with a 20 MPH left crosswind. I missed the crow LITERALLY by 6 inches... watched the mud kick up and splatter the crow as he took off ass over teakettle to get the hell outta there, it was my fault, as I gave too much headroom for wind drift, and didnt need it.... That was with WOLF 148 grn. ammo. I LOVE my PSL, it is still my FAVORITE rifle of the 30 I own... I would take it over ANY of the others, EXCEPT were I to need MEGA ROUNDS in a hurry, it is limited to a 10 round magazine, and thats it... there ARE NO HICAPS FOR A PSL....then I would take the WASR10... for anything else... it would be the PSL... it gives you close quarters speed, and long range potential... with a bullet potential somewhere in the middle of a .308 and an '06... Sorry to hijack half your thread, A|G, but it was fitting and easy to use for my comments! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A|G 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Indy, Sounds like yours was made first thing on a Monday while mine was made at 4:30, Friday. I still love mine and like I said, I will probably never reach the full potential of the rifle. So Mudsock, what do you think? A|G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I think if you guys don't shut up I will be broke for the rest of my life. The local gun dealers aren't helping either. They are pushing a 12 months same as cash deal. Even though they are a bunch of jerks, I will probably end up buying from them again. My list of things to watch for at the gun show next month keeps getting bigger and bigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I know your pain, Jtodd, I feel it to the depths of my wallet... TODAY, I just bought a walnut stocked K-31 swiss carbine... and a Mosin Nagant M38 that will be the BANE of all crufflers out there... chromed, turned down bolt, scope mount, black ATI stock... Paid $149 for the K31 and $249 for the M38! I think I did OK! Pics to follow next week when they arrive! I STILL need a Hipoint carbine, a few more MN's, more Saigas, more WASR's, more this, more that, more of those, more of these... some of them, and some of those.... it NEVER ENDS!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) Sounds like hit or miss. You have provided a lot of information and I did get an education about this rifle. The attraction to the Dragunov is its sleak and evil look. The truth is, on Long Island I don't have many 500M shots to take (ha, ha). Sounds like a performer. I had a Browning 30-06 A-Bolt that was a tack driver but sold it because I don't hunt anymore and wanted something to have fun with. I got a WASR-10 and added all synthetic stuff to it to make it look more tactical. Fun to shot but the day of 1000 rounds for $100 seem to have fallen to the wayside. I was also looking into the Mosin Nagant Finish M-39's along with the Dragunov. Both using the 7.62 x 54R and still reasonable surplus with the knockdown power and crowd pleasing shock and awe. But for around here I think a S-308 is plenty. I am still wrestling with the cost analysis of converting a S-308 or just buying a Dragunov out right. Seems like for ego stroking the Dragunov would get lots of looks. When the civil war begins, door to door the S-308 would be the choice (joking). So just put your self in my shoes for a second. 30-06 to a WASR-10. The part of me that likes to make the shot count has been keeping me up late at night muling over this to much. Truth is I would like to have both the S-308 and the Dragunov. Which one is more likely to dry up first? I would guess the Dragunov. Jackasses around here don't even know that Saiga's are being imported again. That's a whole other problem. I'm trying to get a qoute from a local to have a Saiga brought here. Edited March 23, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hell... I just spent over a hundred bucks last night on RELOADING EQUIPMENT for the 54R round... 3 different flavors of bullets, 200 rounds of brass, a set of RCBS dies... I plan to take my PSL to the next level... Dragunovs will cower when I am done... the PSL will be able to outshoot them with ease when I get a load tuned up for my rifle... It may take some time and several tries to get a load worked out that it REALLY likes... but I am confident that I will get it to be the tack driver at 500M. I know it CAN BE! which means at 900M.... it will shoot DECENT GROUPS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stokstad 4 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Sounds like hit or miss. You have provided a lot of information and I did get an education about this rifle. The attraction to the Dragunov is its sleak and evil look. The truth is, on Long Island I don't have many 500M shots to take (ha, ha). Sounds like a performer. I had a Browning 30-06 A-Bolt that was a tack driver but sold it because I don't hunt anymore and wanted something to have fun with. I got a WASR-10 and added all synthetic stuff to it to make it look more tactical. Fun to shot but the day of 1000 rounds for $100 seem to have fallen to the wayside. I was also looking into the Mosin Nagant Finish M-39's along with the Dragunov. Both using the 7.62 x 54R and still reasonable surplus with the knockdown power and crowd pleasing shock and awe. But for around here I think a S-308 is plenty. I am still wrestling with the cost analysis of converting a S-308 or just buying a Dragunov out right. Seems like for ego stroking the Dragunov would get lots of looks. When the civil war begins, door to door the S-308 would be the choice (joking). So just put your self in my shoes for a second. 30-06 to a WASR-10. The part of me that likes to make the shot count has been keeping me up late at night muling over this to much. Truth is I would like to have both the S-308 and the Dragunov. Which one is more likely to dry up first? I would guess the Dragunov. Jackasses around here don't even know that Saiga's are being imported again. That's a whole other problem. I'm trying to get a qoute from a local to have a Saiga brought here. First off as explained earlier in this post It is NOT a dragunov so please stop calling it that. It just perpetuates the lie that someone started about those romaks. If you wanted a real Dragunov your going to be paying 5k easily. I believe only about 100 real Drags were ever imported to this country. You can get a Chinese Drag for about 1500-2k. I have wanted a PSL or Romak 3 for a long time now. I did a lot of reading on them as well. I wish I had the money for one but alas I do not. I also have looked around on the net and it seems to me that they have dried up where have you found them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) I stand corrected. Romak III not Dragunov. http://www.southernohiogun.com/newproducts.html Edited March 23, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 SOG doesn't have them. The website says they do, but if you call them, they're out of stock. Sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) That makes the choice much easier now Edited March 23, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) SOG doesn't have them. The website says they do, but if you call them, they're out of stock. Sucks. I don't think I'll ever buy anything from SOG, anyway. The one time I was going to, I asked what kind of shape the bore was in on a particular rifle. They said, "We don't inspect any of the interals on our firearms." Click. That was the end of the conversation. Edited April 4, 2006 by BlenderWizard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 (edited) What kind of action is on the romak? Is it a pumped up AK action and can it take shooting the snots out of it without hurting it? I have heard somewhere there are problems with one of these because of the weaker ak action(7,62x39) with the more powerful 7,62x54r round. I also heard there is a problem when the barrel gets hot the POI changes too. I was looking at buying one but i'd rather wait. I shoot my SVT-40 Tokarev but not as often as i would like to shoot it. Its a collectable and i would hate to hurt it. I wish SAIGA would hurry up with the saiga in 7,62x54r till then i'm hammering the snots out of my 308 saiga & .223 saiga. I've bought many toys so far from SOG with no problems at all yet. Samco and Century Arms have been ok too. The swiss k31's are the hottest buy on the surplus market right now. They are a swiss watch quality built rifle. While its very unique its very accurate too. And there still around $100 and under if you have your C&RFFL unless your going for an excellent condition one. The excellent condition swiss k31's don't look too good anymore as they once did too. Out of my 5 or so swiss k31's my last "fair" condition one cleaned up the best so far. I refinished the stock and steamed out most of the dings and dents and i took a sows ear and made her into a bueatiful swiss looker. Even the little surface rust it had cleaned up with some fine 0000 steelwool with no pits on her at all. At one time these were not really wanted because of the supply of ammo there was like none to be had for quite sometime. Now we have some swiss 7,5mm surplus ammo which is suppose to be a near match quality ammo and we have Prvi-Partizan and Wolf Gold offering us new boxer primed ammo now thats affordable too. If you like and collect guns there's no reason not to have a quality, affordable and accurate swiss rifle. I also heard the POA/POI doesn't change between 200yds to 300yds too this swiss miss is that accurate. With some accessories from St Marie like a muzzle brake and a scopemount you can surely build a quality long range target rifle that you always wanted for very little cost too. POA- Point of Aim POI- Point of Impact BTW; I have heard some of the swiss rifles don't shoot that accurate like they may shoot a tad larger group than the others and that can easily be fixed by recrowning. Some guys just use a round head screw in a drill with some lapping compound. Edited April 9, 2006 by Unknown Poster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 What kind of action is on the romak? Is it a pumped up AK action and can it take shooting the snots out of it without hurting it? I have heard somewhere there are problems with one of these because of the weaker ak action(7,62x39) with the more powerful 7,62x54r round. I also heard there is a problem when the barrel gets hot the POI changes too. I was looking at buying one but i'd rather wait. I shoot my SVT-40 Tokarev but not as often as i would like to shoot it. Its a collectable and i would hate to hurt it. I wish SAIGA would hurry up with the saiga in 7,62x54r till then i'm hammering the snots out of my 308 saiga & .223 saiga. Sure, it is a AK action...a bit elongated. That is no problem with the AK action as it does that/adapts to that easily. Consider the Saiga.308...it has no problem with the chambering which compares very closely to the 7.65x54R. For that matter, there have been 8mm Mauser & 30-06 AK firearms made. Yeah, groups go to hell, I understand, with hot barrels...that is not unique to the PSL. And, it was not intended to be a "sniping" weapon in the western sense -it has a tactical intention as a squad support weapon -capable of some extende range. It is notable that there is a .308 version. I struggled with consideration of the PSL type weapon, and may yet get one. For now, after being turned off by the antiquated rimmed round and lack of hi-cap mags, I just elected to effect much the same purpose utilizing the .308 Saiga. I'm not unhappy with that. Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I didn't rule out getting one in the future either and I probably will get one in 7,62x54r but i will retune the recoil springs in it to take some of the recoil out of it. From what i just heard the russians at Izhmash have no intention of manufacturing a Saiga Sporter in 7,62x54r I guess I wasted enough time sending emails sometimes the ignorant just don't get the message about what the consumer is telling them with positive feedback and about the market demands that aren't met. I know there is a company in the USA who manufactures AK's and i love to see them put out a AK sporter in 7,62x54r. Trust me if the saiga didn't have a chromed lined barrel i'd have one already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) Mudsock, I'm not sure if you've made your descision, but I thought I'd throw in my .02. There are a couple different versions of the PSL/Romak, I opted for the SSG-97 from interordnance.com. I ordered it in Feb last year and it finally came in at the beginning of May. Check out this forum : http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=8 Check the "sticky" threads, there's a review for a 7.62X54R PSL, and one for a .308 SSG-97. Both are pretty good range reviews, and the conclusion I got was that the SSG-97 was a better gun. I got the 7.62X54 version because of what the range review said about the .308 version about the plastic magazine (Which looks gay and defeats the purpose of the gun). Additionally, the mags for the .308 are way more expensive. Interordnance claims that PSL's and ROMAK III's are parts guns and this one is not. A pawn shop chain in my town stocks a PSL with a 4x POSP for 1000.00. I've compared mine to theirs, and mine seems to be better quality. It also looks more evil with the 6X "Hubble telescope". Hint: If you extend the sunshade, it looks even more intimidating! Here's the link to the gun on interordnance, and of course they are currently out of stock: http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/mer...SG97%2F7.62X54R Mine came coated in cosmoline, with a 10 rd mag, 5 rd mag, sling, cleaning kit, owners manual, and 6x POSP scope. (The kind that takes AA batteries as opposed to the impossible to find kind ) It came with a target with a 3 rd 1.5 inch group shot at 100 meters on the iron sights from the factory. This is a gun made in a factory, with an owners manual and a serial number. It has another name for the gun in the owner's manual, but I can't remember what it is. I paid 694.00. To be honest, I don't think the gun is worth that much. I think for the quality, if it were made here, it would be in the 350 range. But that's not what I paid for. I paid to have a really cool lookin' sniper rifle. Just like the above review says, the finish is crap. I sanded all parts down and put linseed oil on it. I also took the dremel to the handgrip part of the buttstock and put some finger grooves in it. (It didn't fit my hand well in stock config, and looks much cooler this way) I eventually am going to shave off some wood in the handgaurds (Read that forum, supposedly makes it more accurate), duracoat it, and replace the trigger. (I second that the two-stage, gritty-ass 6 lb trigger sucks, and is prolly 50% of my accuracy problems.) I'm just going to put a G2 in it, the RSA is adjustable and all that, but it's 80 dollars! The gun is very accurate, and I have noticed that there is truth about the POI changing when the barrel heats up. If you rapid fire it then try to shoot match, you will get some fliers (about 1 out of 5 are 1 inch out of the mass when it's hot.) And ammo is the key. When I shoot the Chech silver tip, accuracy suffers and you have to clean the crap out of it. The best ammo I've found is the 148 grain Wolf. The only long range shooting I've done was at 400 yrds, prone unsupported, laying on a steel platform in 100 degree weather. I hit a brake drum 3 out of 4 shots, and then got the hell off that platform. At 100 yrds, I'll consistantly shoot 1.25 to 1.5 inches in 5 shots. That's not the gun though. 4 of those rounds will be less than an inch, and then I'll yank one off to the left everytime. Recoil is next to nothing with that spring loaded butt plate. It kicks about like an AK. Unknown poster, I think what you refer to when talking about the action being too weak is when someone tries to chamber a 200 grain bullet. If you get into forums about these guns, the owners will all tell you to shoot nothing bigger than 160. My biggest gripe about the gun is that every time you clean it, you gotta take the scope off, and on a rail mount it's hard to get it mounted the same everytime. But, the scope's reticle moves inside the tube, so it's super-easy to zero. Just shoot it, move the reticle to the flying dirt, and you're all set. Being able to see that reticle move in the tube is a great visual reference. It has never taken more than 3 shots to zero, even the first time I shot it. Another thing I don't like about it is that it took 3 f%^ing months to get delivered. Overall I am very happy with it. But to me, the purpose was to have a really cool sniper rifle that is unique and shoots well. It's a real attention getter at the range. Babies cry when I pull it out of the case. It looks evil, it's fargin loud, and it kicks shells out like 20'. It has a huge birdcage flashider on it that really makes for some lovely concussion all around you. I love the scope on it. It picks up a lot of light, it looks like a damn telescope, and the reticle w/rangefinder is just cool looking. I personally only buy a gun if it is very unique, historically significant, or rediculous by nature (caliber, price). This one falls into both the unique AND rediculous category (pricewise) If you want something that looks looks fuggin' evil and doesn't have much practical purpose, get it. It's worth the wait, and you won't be disappointed. My .02 Quick edit: P.S. Does anyone have NOTREASON4's email address? I've got some pics of my crewchiefs throwing stuffed animals out the window over baghdad that he could use as evidence in his lawsuit. Ha! Sorry to open an old wound, but I was trying to search the forum to find a picture of the SSG, and I kept running across his posts! I had completely forgotten about him! Edited April 10, 2006 by shaneman153a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hey Mudsock, How about an update? Are you goin for the PSL? Shane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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