Buckshot versus Birdshot at about 10 to 15 ft away

[expeditionx 1]

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-4.html

[1liter 20]

Very interesting!

 

I was amazed that the birdshot didn't penatrate!

[NoAim 0]

Very interesting!

 

I was amazed that the birdshot didn't penatrate!

 

"Birdshot is meant for birds."

[deerollman 0]

i would definitely rather have some 00, but 7.5 will DEFINITELY do something to the crackhead. i've seen the pictures of a #8 shot at that same distance- killed almost instantly. we done have steel plating between our ribs.

[kmoore 3]

i would definitely rather have some 00, but 7.5 will DEFINITELY do something to the crackhead. i've seen the pictures of a #8 shot at that same distance- killed almost instantly. we done have steel plating between our ribs.

 

I'm not a HD/SD expert, but I play one on the internet. When it comes to stopping a threat, we should all remember that the question is NOT what COULD work, but what is MOST LIKELY to work.\

 

I'm not as interested in all of the people who have been stopped by birdshot as I am about the ones who have NOT been stopped. By the same argument, I could probably google up a picture of someone stopped with a sharp stick. But I'm not planning on arming myself with any.

 

I won't argue that you shouldn't use whatever is at hand for defense, but it's your job to prepare and have sufficient tools for the job at hand. For stopping a threat, Bird is better than nothing, but buck is better than bird.

 

The accepted arguement against birdshot is its lack of penetration. This "computer case" demonstration highlights that weakness very graphically. We don't have steel inside, but we DO have 6 to 14 inches of tissue between the muzzle and the perps heart/spine. Throw in a leather coat? Or a door/window/wall or both? Buckshot gives you more options. Did I ever tell you of the time I shot balloons with birdshot @ 100 yards. Wouldn't break and I thought I was missing, till I looked and saw shot marks on the balloon. I wish I had thought to advance 5 yards, shoot, repeat till the balloon broke. I know this distance is extreme, but its another graphical demonstration. Don't make me bring out the Quail hunt and Cheney

 

As I said, a bloody shallow wound is better than nothing, a LOT better. But a deeper, bloody wound trumps that, and is more likely to stop faster.

 

May all of our deadly encounters be theoretical

[6500rpm 670]

Birdshot=bleed to death

00 buckshot=dead

[stokstad 4]

I like how he says that the sides of the computer case are 1/8" Thick. LOL is that an armored case or what. I will give him Maybe 1/16" Not an 1/8"

[G O B 3,516]

The best HD is #1 through #4 buck. Best all around combination of lethality and less overpenetration issues. Also the range for the MAXIMUM permanent wound channel.

 

G O B

[panaceabeachbum 0]

I like how he says that the sides of the computer case are 1/8" Thick. LOL is that an armored case or what. I will give him Maybe 1/16" Not an 1/8"

youre right , no way in hell thats 1/8", maybe 19ga looking at the dent , not really fair to compare lowbrass bird shot to buckshot

[NoAim 0]

I like how he says that the sides of the computer case are 1/8" Thick. LOL is that an armored case or what. I will give him Maybe 1/16" Not an 1/8"

youre right , no way in hell thats 1/8", maybe 19ga looking at the dent , not really fair to compare lowbrass bird shot to buckshot

 

My old PC case was about 1/8" thick. Damn metal cover weighed 10 pounds alone.

[Blaster 0]

People would do well to remember the difference between stopping power and killing power. The goal in any self defense situation should ALWAYS BE TO STOP your opponent. Death should be irrelevent. If I shoot a crackhead with birdshot and he dies tomorrow, but cuts my throat in the meantime I have actually defeated the purpose for shooting him in the first place. The issue is not whether I kill him, but whether I stop him before he hurts me or mine. Birdshot would have to suffice if its all I had but sanity dictates that I use the best tool for the job. Terminal balisticts is an imperfect science in which you only have limited control. You can control what weapon you choose to use, what load you choose to use, your ability to hit accurately and the tacticts you employ. What you haver absolutly no control over is the physicological reaction to your opponent being shot, his drug usage or psychological state. If you ever have the misfortune of having to shoot aonther human being in self defense there will be more than enough going through your head without worring about your load penatrating his clothes or not. Birdshot is for birds.

[GTwannabe 1]

People would do well to remember the difference between stopping power and killing power. The goal in any self defense situation should ALWAYS BE TO STOP your opponent. Death should be irrelevent. If I shoot a crackhead with birdshot and he dies tomorrow, but cuts my throat in the meantime I have actually defeated the purpose for shooting him in the first place. The issue is not whether I kill him, but whether I stop him before he hurts me or mine. Birdshot would have to suffice if its all I had but sanity dictates that I use the best tool for the job. Terminal balisticts is an imperfect science in which you only have limited control. You can control what weapon you choose to use, what load you choose to use, your ability to hit accurately and the tacticts you employ. What you haver absolutly no control over is the physicological reaction to your opponent being shot, his drug usage or psychological state. If you ever have the misfortune of having to shoot aonther human being in self defense there will be more than enough going through your head without worring about your load penatrating his clothes or not. Birdshot is for birds.

 

Actually, in a home defense situation, you should aim to kill. If you don't and the perp survives, be prepared to deal with a big lawsuit for medical bills and "pain and suffering" damages. Dead men tell no tales (or lies, or hire sheister lawyers)

[Gaddis 1,689]

Dead men tell no tales (or lies, or hire sheister lawyers)

 

Unfortunately, their surviving family members usually do.

 

That's what sucks about having a legal system run by bleeding heart liberals.

 

But if you are going to pay (in the least) $50,000 in defending your good name in court anyway, It'd be a real shame if Mr. Turdball didn't finally find a real vocation (besides preying on innocent victims) at least pushing up dasies.

[expeditionx 1]

Dead men tell no tales (or lies, or hire sheister lawyers)

 

Unfortunately, their surviving family members usually do.

 

That's what sucks about having a legal system run by bleeding heart liberals.

 

But if you are going to pay (in the least) $50,000 in defending your good name in court anyway, It'd be a real shame if Mr. Turdball didn't finally find a real vocation (besides preying on innocent victims) at least pushing up dasies.

 

I wonder how many farmers in the past realized that they could get into a civil law-suit against them for dropping a bad guy and then just decided to feed the hogs rather than call law enforcement and report it.

Im sure, some of the law enforcement guys that read this post might have comments regarding unsolved cases with stuff like this happening.

[Bravo 26 2]

I can GARUNTEE you that there are LOTS of 6' deep holes near the border in texas. Friend of mine used to work for the border patrol over there and from time to time they would jsut find a body or two with some 30cal holes in them. If the texas farmer finds himself facing a machete armed illegal, think he's gonna call 911, nope, he will bury him then go eat a sandwich

[Blaster 0]

GT Wannabe...my comments are based on what is legal. If you say " I tried to killl him because..." in court you have just sealed your fate. The law allows you to do whatever is necessary to STOP your assailent, if he dies in the process of you stoping him, so be it. If your stated goal is to kill, then the death was premeditated. It might seem like technical mumbo-jumbo to you, but 40 yrs with bubba the faggot in a 5X10 ft jail cell might make you wish you had used different vocabulary. In this country soldiers to my knowledge are the only ones who have a right to kill. Even law enforcement officers at the city state and federal levels do not have a legal right to kill, only a legal right to STOP. Ignore my warning at your own peril, bubba will be glad you did.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Blaster

[Bvamp 604]

I skipped down from the initial post.

 

I havent read your responses (yeh, bad moderator, I know), but I will tell you what. frosty the snowman? remember him at my place? dont remember my posts and pics? well, birdshot dont do fuck all, but take an inch off the surface, and BUCKshot absolutely blasts it, as do slugs. buckshot, even 000, the good stuff, barely destroys a snowman. SLUGS go completely through, where no pistol or rifle round out of any trench gun will go through it, save 308 30.06 762x54 or anything big enough to take game at 3000 yards. (is that SPROTING by the way???? shoot it FURTHER? come on, asshole lawmakers, give me a f'n break now)

 

this leads me to believe: load 15 pellet buckshot alternating with 3" slugs. I prefer this loading, and I would bet YOUR life on it vs intruders of most all types. up close? that 15 pellet 1 1/2 oz load will CRUSH the person.

 

....

 

I am no expert, but that is my logic, and my thinking, and I just wanted to share it, in view of the topic title...

[GTwannabe 1]

GT Wannabe...my comments are based on what is legal. If you say " I tried to killl him because..." in court you have just sealed your fate. The law allows you to do whatever is necessary to STOP your assailent, if he dies in the process of you stoping him, so be it. If your stated goal is to kill, then the death was premeditated. It might seem like technical mumbo-jumbo to you, but 40 yrs with bubba the faggot in a 5X10 ft jail cell might make you wish you had used different vocabulary. In this country soldiers to my knowledge are the only ones who have a right to kill. Even law enforcement officers at the city state and federal levels do not have a legal right to kill, only a legal right to STOP. Ignore my warning at your own peril, bubba will be glad you did.

 

Well, a close-quarters center of mass hit with 00 buck will definitely stop the intruder... permanently. If you were to use a handgun instead of a shotty, you'd have be careful as well. If you drop him with one shot to the head or with a double-tap to the chest, it'll look premeditated. You're better off (legally) pumping him full of lead in a panic until he drops.

 

Getting back to the original topic, the problem with birdshot is that it doesn't have the penetration to reliably stop an intruder (especially if they're high). So if you're forced to shoot somone, you'd better use ammo that will do the job.

[Bvamp 604]

the cops dont have the right, but often will get away with a few months of paid leave when they do kill someone, for whatever reason.

 

the military has no right to kill our own citizens, except in times of declared martial law, I believe, but they have to revoke Habeous Corpus first.