davidmdraege 0 Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ok. I'll be the first to admit that I went out and bought a Saiga without doing all the research. Can you blame me though? At the same time that I bought my brand new, just imported Russian American Armory CO. Saiga 12 with bolt hold open switch, the dealer had a Saiga mfg'd folding stock/ pistol grip combo in stock too. Naturally I couldn't refuse. Little did I realize the problem that I would have trying to install it because the one screw on the factory installed stock is hiding in the receiver. So I brought my still happy little ass online to find out what I was doing wrong. Boy oh boy oh boy, did I ever find out what I was doing wrong when the Google search started to take me to all kinds of links explaining how I could be expecting visits from friendly government officers if I did install it. To make a short story even shorter. I did not finish the install. Now the question is, since I actually like the looks of this stock compared to the others I have seen talked about in this forum, what parts can I change out to make this Saiga 922 legal and still be able to use it. I was thinking the trigger group (counts as 3 parts per Tapco), a Galil stlyle handguard (1 part), and a gas piston (1 part). Will this put me compliant or will I have to change out more? If so, what else is there to change? I think I could probably manufacture my own trigger guard,( I believe that I read somewhere that this would be a complant part) but would I have to stamp it "made in the USA" even though I made it myself? Just looking for suggestions from those who have been around this block before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) the problem with using the folding stock/PG combo while remaining 922 compliant is that when you swap out the FCG for the tapco, the trigger group is moved forward in the receiver several inches so the reach from the pistol grip to the trigger is practiccally impossible. The tapco trigger group is not a drop in replacement for the factory trigger group Check out Ace stocks. They have some pretty impressive stuff in fixed and folders, then just get a seperate pistol grip to use with it hope this helps HOOP Edited October 19, 2006 by hoop762 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 BattlerifleG3 has modified FCG's for just this sort of thing in the for sale section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Gentlemen, I thank you for the fast replies. Hoop, the reason I like the Saiga folding stock/ PG is because it is combined into one and is designed to fit right into the standard Saiga stock position. The reach on the trigger would have been a problem with a standard compliant FCG as you state, but as Conju pointed out BattlerifleG3's modified FCG, I might be looking into those too. Believe me, I am going to take my time deciding on parts so that I can do this right. The more compliant parts that I can find and use without having to do that many mods to the receiver, the better. I don't want to be out of a good long gun because I measured once and had to cut twice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
micah360 6 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Just have Tony convert it and save yourself the time and headache! Down the road you will want it converted anyways... www.tromix.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
epsylum 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Just have Tony convert it and save yourself the time and headache! Down the road you will want it converted anyways... www.tromix.com +1 They look better converted anyways. The grip/stock doohicky for the unconverted ones look goofy IMO. Not nearly as AK-like as a nicely converted one (like Tony does). I liked my S12 before, but ever since Tony gave it his touch, I friggin LOVE it now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I don't want to be out of a good long gun because I measured once and had to cut twice. measure once, cut twice...cause saws are more fun that tape measures Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 +2 For $350 it wouldn't be worth the headache to me to do it and then re-do it. Been there in years past and the damn project wound up at the gunsmith anyway and ended up costing me multiples of what it would have in the first place. Hope that's clear, cuz' now I'm confused. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Just have Tony convert it and save yourself the time and headache! Down the road you will want it converted anyways... www.tromix.com +1 They look better converted anyways. The grip/stock doohicky for the unconverted ones look goofy IMO. Not nearly as AK-like as a nicely converted one (like Tony does). I liked my S12 before, but ever since Tony gave it his touch, I friggin LOVE it now. Also would you really want to leave that extra 2 inches on the gun? That 2 inches could mean life or death in a zombie type situation. You sure you want to risk that? I wouldn't. The conversion really isnt that hard to do if you use a saw grip, cuz then you can just use the existing trigger slot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thanks for the kudos, guys! A link to the site is in my sigline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I really need to get to work but let me say this about doing a conversion "IT IS EASY" the only hard thing about it is cutting the square pistol grip hole, and that is not hard I I just drilled a round hole and squared it up with a trianglar file it took about an hour of filing and checking and filing, I suggest you do a normal conversion. If you want a unique weapon talk to BRG3 about some custom wood parts. Good luck and I can't believe RAA is selling those stock sets. Ace makes an excelent stock and it will add to the re-sale price of your gun. Quality in makes Quality out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 If you want more parts, buy american magazines for the gun, that would ad 2 if not 3 new parts. You would just have to make sure that you only used those mags. COnverting would be better though..... Topmauls Son Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hungryjack 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Sad Saiga Story Read this thread: (with pictures) http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=12646 I went down the same path you are going down. It kind of sucked at first, but it has a happy ending. Your story can have a happy ending too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Here's a price comparison for you. The basic standard folding stock/pistol grip conversion parts are as follows: ACE internal receiver block $35 ACE Buttstock $65 ACE Folding Mechanism $60 Freight $8 Tapco Pistol grip $25 Tapco G2 FCG $45 Trig/Hamr retaining spring $4 Freight $8 Total Parts Cost $250 With a Tromix conversion, all the extra holes are welded up and blended out. There is no "adapter" used to mount the stock, rather a factory receiver back plate is welded in, and there are no screws and nuts holding the trigger guard in place. The barrel is cut down and gas ports resized, if required, and the mag well is adjusted for 8rd mags if required. Any Russian assembly screwups are repaired and the gun is sand blasted and bake-on moly resin applied. I think you'll find that's a pretty good value for a 100 bucks. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berszerk 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 If you want more parts, buy american magazines for the gun, that would ad 2 if not 3 new parts. You would just have to make sure that you only used those mags. COnverting would be better though.....Topmauls Son Top, I bought the folding stock too, and dont have alot of spare cash (gotta pay for the 10rndrs), so if I read correctly, the new mags put me in compliance with 922? Forgive me for my ignorance I just want to stay within the lines, and you seem to be a good source for info. BTW..... If any member has used BattlerifleG3's modified FCG I would like some feedback on this product, these should get me in 922 compliance. Thanks for your time. Here's a price comparison for you. The basic standard folding stock/pistol grip conversion parts are as follows: ACE internal receiver block $35 ACE Buttstock $65 ACE Folding Mechanism $60 Freight $8 Tapco Pistol grip $25 Tapco G2 FCG $45 Trig/Hamr retaining spring $4 Freight $8 Total Parts Cost $250 With a Tromix conversion, all the extra holes are welded up and blended out. There is no "adapter" used to mount the stock, rather a factory receiver back plate is welded in, and there are no screws and nuts holding the trigger guard in place. The barrel is cut down and gas ports resized, if required, and the mag well is adjusted for 8rd mags if required. Any Russian assembly screwups are repaired and the gun is sand blasted and bake-on moly resin applied. I think you'll find that's a pretty good value for a 100 bucks. Tony Damn, you make it sound so tempting, now if I could only get my money back from the 3 folding stocks I could make that a reality, not to mention the 2 russian hand guards and the 2 forward russian grips. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thanks for the feed back everyone. First to clarify, RAA isn't the company importing the Saiga stock/ PG combo to my knowledge. The one I bought was brought into the country by TG International, www.tnguns.com, out of Tenn. Second, I want to avoid any mod that doesn't need to be done to the receiver if possible. I figure an unaltered receiver might be worth more down the road, especially if everyone else are doing mods on theirs. Thus, the reason I want to keep the stock/PG combo since no mod would have to be done to the receiver. Tony, believe me, I've looked at your stuff on your site. My next Saiga is DEFINETLY going to be one of yours. With Christmas coming up though, I will have to wait awhile. By the way, I live in MO and I believe I can drive across the boarder and pick up a long gun in OK. I know I can in IL. If that's so, it would give me a chance to drool over your inventory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 (edited) After installing the ACE folding stock, and leaving the rest of the gun alone, IE, original trigger configuration, I would NEVER consider a true conversion, for one reason. About a week after the upcoming election, and the Democrats who are going to be in power start adding guns to the list to ban, and if the Saiga with an integral pistol grip gets added, or worse, they declare any mag fed shotgun with a pistol grip a destructive device, Ive got about a two minute switch time to put mine back in original configuration. It may be sporting, but it will still put a lot of buckshot on the target, and it will be legal. Getting the "Look" of an AK is secondary, the gun functions the same, and for what, a permanent conversion for 2 inches of overall length when folded? Its totally front heavy to begin with when you have a full 8 round mag, a flashlight and a grip mounted, and the extra length only helps to balance it. Naah, when I was 18, and having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger, I may have considered it, now, ease of installation, and unconversion trumps it, because I have lived through 10 years of a gun ban, I dont want to be turning in a permanently converted gun when the time comes, I'll keep my "Sporter" instead, and wait them out. Again..... Oh, dont get me wrong, I love you guys that do the conversions, and I am COMPLETELY hoorahhing the fact that we can again make previously banned weapons, its just that I smell that nasty cunt from NY lurking around the Presidential elections, and I KNOW they want the gun control victories back. They fear us, the gun owners, dont ever forget that, thats why its tantamount to be in a position to keep what you have, IF, they decide to ban again, based only upon looks. Edited October 24, 2006 by frick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 After installing the ACE folding stock, and leaving the rest of the gun alone, IE, original trigger configuration, I would NEVER consider a true conversion, for one reason. About a week after the upcoming election, and the Democrats who are going to be in power start adding guns to the list to ban, and if the Saiga with an integral pistol grip gets added, or worse, they declare any mag fed shotgun with a pistol grip a destructive device, Ive got about a two minute switch time to put mine back in original configuration. It may be sporting, but it will still put a lot of buckshot on the target, and it will be legal. Getting the "Look" of an AK is secondary, the gun functions the same, and for what, a permanent conversion for 2 inches of overall length when folded? Its totally front heavy to begin with when you have a full 8 round mag, a flashlight and a grip mounted, and the extra length only helps to balance it. Naah, when I was 18, and having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger, I may have considered it, now, ease of installation, and unconversion trumps it, because I have lived through 10 years of a gun ban, I dont want to be turning in a permanently converted gun when the time comes, I'll keep my "Sporter" instead, and wait them out. Again..... Oh, dont get me wrong, I love you guys that do the conversions, and I am COMPLETELY hoorahhing the fact that we can again make previously banned weapons, its just that I smell that nasty cunt from NY lurking around the Presidential elections, and I KNOW they want the gun control victories back. They fear us, the gun owners, dont ever forget that, thats why its tantamount to be in a position to keep what you have, IF, they decide to ban again, based only upon looks. Although I understand your reasoning I think it is basically flawed. I have pre-ban H&K, Steyr-Aug and Uzi weapons. They were all banned from future importation but nobody came to take mine away. Anybody that already had them kept them and watched as the price went through the roof. My reasoning is not "having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger", my reasoning is that they are what I enjoy. Of course I enjoy many things that might make folks want to make the same accusation about me. To each their own. Good and valid reasoning for your choice. I make different choices with what I beleive to be valid reasons. Enjoy life and good shooting with your weapon of choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Although I understand your reasoning I think it is basically flawed. I have pre-ban H&K, Steyr-Aug and Uzi weapons. They were all banned from future importation but nobody came to take mine away. Anybody that already had them kept them and watched as the price went through the roof. My reasoning is not "having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger", my reasoning is that they are what I enjoy. Of course I enjoy many things that might make folks want to make the same accusation about me. To each their own. Good and valid reasoning for your choice. I make different choices with what I beleive to be valid reasons. Enjoy life and good shooting with your weapon of choice. +1 Even if they do put a ban in, what you have now will get grandfathered, and guess what, you'll still be able to convert it then, because it will be a pre ban weapon. If it ever comes into question they'll be able to check the import date/sale date and find out exactly that. case closed. I'm not a lawyer, YMMV, etc. etc. Edited October 25, 2006 by Conju Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 +1 And might I add there is nothing PERMANENT about a Saiga conversion. If that bitch got in office I could easily put the gun back into it's originally imported "Sporting" configuration and the only difference would be two peened rivets and a different set of plugged holes. After installing the ACE folding stock, and leaving the rest of the gun alone, IE, original trigger configuration, I would NEVER consider a true conversion, for one reason. About a week after the upcoming election, and the Democrats who are going to be in power start adding guns to the list to ban, and if the Saiga with an integral pistol grip gets added, or worse, they declare any mag fed shotgun with a pistol grip a destructive device, Ive got about a two minute switch time to put mine back in original configuration. It may be sporting, but it will still put a lot of buckshot on the target, and it will be legal. Getting the "Look" of an AK is secondary, the gun functions the same, and for what, a permanent conversion for 2 inches of overall length when folded? Its totally front heavy to begin with when you have a full 8 round mag, a flashlight and a grip mounted, and the extra length only helps to balance it. Naah, when I was 18, and having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger, I may have considered it, now, ease of installation, and unconversion trumps it, because I have lived through 10 years of a gun ban, I dont want to be turning in a permanently converted gun when the time comes, I'll keep my "Sporter" instead, and wait them out. Again..... Oh, dont get me wrong, I love you guys that do the conversions, and I am COMPLETELY hoorahhing the fact that we can again make previously banned weapons, its just that I smell that nasty cunt from NY lurking around the Presidential elections, and I KNOW they want the gun control victories back. They fear us, the gun owners, dont ever forget that, thats why its tantamount to be in a position to keep what you have, IF, they decide to ban again, based only upon looks. Although I understand your reasoning I think it is basically flawed. I have pre-ban H&K, Steyr-Aug and Uzi weapons. They were all banned from future importation but nobody came to take mine away. Anybody that already had them kept them and watched as the price went through the roof. My reasoning is not "having a bad ass gun made my dick bigger", my reasoning is that they are what I enjoy. Of course I enjoy many things that might make folks want to make the same accusation about me. To each their own. Good and valid reasoning for your choice. I make different choices with what I beleive to be valid reasons. Enjoy life and good shooting with your weapon of choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 If Hilary runs, she'll likely not get into office based solely on sex. Theres just waay too many christians floating around to let that happen. If she was conservative then maybe, but she's not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Add in the fact that Bush still has 2 more years in office, there is no way that he would sign a gun ban bill since he is starting to loose support not only from the public but from the Republican elected officials as well. So the next two years should be ok. After that, in my opinion, it will be a crap shoot as to who will take the White House depending on how pissed of the citizens get with what happens in that time period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Lets be clear about Bush, he said if they put a renewal of the AWB on his desk, he would sign it. I dont think for a second he would hesitate in the future, all that saved us this time is having a Republican Congress. Being a Republican is NOT always being "Pro Assault Weapon", and as far as the polling goes, the majority of the public does think they should be banned, and if you are just whoring for votes, guess what wins them, giving the people, even if they are wrong, what they want. True, a situation like the USAS 12 and the Street Sweepers would allow you posession, of a registered destructive device, and like it or not, you are on a list, forever. Not to mention the prohibitions about taking them out of the state, etc. Also, did you ever hear of the "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun" rule as applied by the BATFE? Its what prohibits the Military from converting M14's into legal semis to be sold via the DCM/CMP, and what made the "Three hole" AK's contraband, I dont want to chance "Officially" taking an imported "Sporter" Saiga, and making it, a US compliant "assault weapon", just in case, they decide to determine that once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon. Like I said, I have no problem with younzes all doing what you want, I personally think that the true conversions look better, but for me, 10 minutes to take a stock off, and bolt another one on, with the same in reverse, to achieve the same practical results, was just a no brainer for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Basically Tony does the entire job for a few bucks more than it would cost you in parts. On top of that, he does an outstanding job. Never had anything but happyness from a Tromix product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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