M203 on a Saiga-12

[MikeD 541]

I just bought a m203 9inch LMT 40mm grenade launcher for my Colt M4. It mounts to rails and I was wondering. Does anyone know if it would mount to a Saiga-12 with a Halo rail? If so, I would have to get a halo just cause.

[scoutjoe 276]

I just bought a m203 9inch LMT 40mm grenade launcher for my Colt M4. It mounts to rails and I was wondering. Does anyone know if it would mount to a Saiga-12 with a Halo rail? If so, I would have to get a halo just cause.

 

 

Ya know I bought Headshot's 37mm off the board here with the same intentions....I don't have a Halo rail so I was going to start some WECSOG work on it over Christmas break (dang college getting in the way of tinkering)

 

So that being said if I come up with something I'll let you know

[gunboy69 50]

I just bought a m203 9inch LMT 40mm grenade launcher for my Colt M4. It mounts to rails and I was wondering. Does anyone know if it would mount to a Saiga-12 with a Halo rail? If so, I would have to get a halo just cause.

 

I like your style brother! M203..now thats a door breacher!

[icarus 3]

I like your style brother! M203..now thats a door breacher!

 

Just remember not to use HE rounds.

[scoutjoe 276]

I was thinking those oversized buckshot rounds

[beerslurpy 1]

I heard the 40mm buckshot rounds really sucked because the velocity was very low to keep the recoil manageable.

 

The main problem with owning the M203 is that the ammo is nearly impossible to get. If you could get rid of the stupid ammo restrictions, it would be trivial to make or purchase 12ga HE rounds. It would be 1/4 of the payload of the 40mm stuff, but you could shoot far more of it with a far greater range and accuracy.

[scoutjoe 276]

the 37mm stuff isn't exactly a walk in the park either. I can find some just not locally.

 

is the 40mm a DD?

[osprey21 5]

I was thinking those oversized buckshot rounds

How about a XM1822 - 18 .22LR fired simultaneously.

 

 

Or.. the downsized XM922?

 

[MikeD 541]

I was thinking those oversized buckshot rounds

How about a XM1822 - 18 .22LR fired simultaneously.

 

 

Or.. the downsized XM922?

 

I can't wait to try all of it out, especially the reloadable rounds that fire the .22lr. The 40mm is a DD, scoutjoe.

[beerslurpy 1]

40mm is a large-bore destructive device.

 

Individual grenades (or any exploding weapon or round) are DDs themselves as well. You also need special permits for storing the rounds. So you need licensing and proper storage facilities for the grenades and 200 dollars a grenade in transfer fees. Its really lame.

 

You have to remember that anyone storing or using explosives is subject to strict liability in civil cases- there basically isnt any defense if someone can show that your explosives harmed them or their property. It comes from decades of lawsuits against companies that were sloppy in using and storing dangerous materials. Obviously they would also be subject to criminal penalties for any misuse that destroys property or people. My argument is that these two legal factors are strong enough that we can allow people to own grenades without paying 200 dollars a pop and undergoing a separate background check for each one.

[icarus 3]

I heard the 40mm buckshot rounds really sucked because the velocity was very low to keep the recoil manageable.

 

That and a 3" 12 gauge has more buckshot than a 40mm.

 

Yeah... I know you are thinking "no f*%&ng way. 40mm rounds are so much bigger!" That was my reaction when a buddy told me. It turned out to be true though. (I carried one for about 9 months and my buddy carried it for about 6 months before I came along and he went to the SAW.)

[MikeD 541]

I heard the 40mm buckshot rounds really sucked because the velocity was very low to keep the recoil manageable.

 

That and a 3" 12 gauge has more buckshot than a 40mm.

 

Yeah... I know you are thinking "no f*%&ng way. 40mm rounds are so much bigger!" That was my reaction when a buddy told me. It turned out to be true though. (I carried one for about 9 months and my buddy carried it for about 6 months before I came along and he went to the SAW.)

I got to shoot a SAW once. It was great! Got a video if I knew how to post that shit!

[scoutjoe 276]

So the XM922 is a 40mm too?

[beerslurpy 1]

So the XM922 is a 40mm too?

Yeah, that's the whole point of it. It lets you use your 40mm toy as a weapon because without ammo it is basically a big paperweight. There is a reason you never see guys using anything but practice rounds, because thats basically all you can get for them.

 

And all of those beehive type shells suck because they have less power and mass than a 12 gauge shell while weighing and costing more than ordinary 12 ga ammo.

 

9 x 22 caliber projectiles < 12 x 33 caliber projectiles.

 

If 40mm HE rounds ever become available to civilians again, I will be the first person to get a GL, but until then, it is pointless IMO.

Edited December 3, 2006 by beerslurpy

[MikeD 541]

9 x 22 caliber projectiles < 12 x 33 caliber projectiles.

There is one that hold 18 x 22 caliber and also the velocity and range would be much greater.

[beerslurpy 1]

2 words: barrel length.

 

18 22 caliber pellets is still less mass then 12 pellets of 00 buck. Not to mention the saiga can fire 10 of them in rapid succession.

 

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. There's no reason to not own silly toys, but you should realize what youre getting into- this has zero usefulness as a weapon. ESPECIALLY mounted to a saiga 12. I'd even go so far as to argue that a saiga 12 with HE shells would be better in many ways than a 40mm weapon.

[MikeD 541]

2 words: barrel length.

 

18 22 caliber pellets is still less mass then 12 pellets of 00 buck. Not to mention the saiga can fire 10 of them in rapid succession.

 

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. There's no reason to not own silly toys, but you should realize what youre getting into- this has zero usefulness as a weapon. ESPECIALLY mounted to a saiga 12. I'd even go so far as to argue that a saiga 12 with HE shells would be better in many ways than a 40mm weapon.

Yeah, really it is a just cause thing. Bragging rights and shit. Not many people can say they have one. Also it was a steal at $1500 shipped! It is a new unused 9inch LMT and came with a Mossberg AOW, Knights Armament rail for the M4, a new rail attaching M203 sight, and 25 40mm practice rounds. I couldn't pass it up, even if just to resell it all. The grenade launcher is worth that alone. And will only go up in value. It will be on my M4 most of the time when mounted. It hooks to a rail so I'm just going to mount it to a saiga for S+G's. I plan to get some flares, teargas, the reloadable .22 rounds, buckshot.... Also I'm going to experiment with reloading my own buckshot and flecette rounds. I have a few pounds that has just been sitting around.

I would have to disagree on the zero usefulness as a weapon. It can fire lead down range. Or pump tear gas canisters. Light the area with flares. All kinds of great things. But I think I might have to agree with you on the 12ga HE FRAG rounds. Imagaine the shock and awe a couple of drum feed AA-12's pumping HE FRAGs could cause the enemy ranks!

Edited December 3, 2006 by Mike Davidson

[icarus 3]

Sorry but a 12ga HE round doesn' t have sh*t on 40mm HE round. Sure you could fire a few more but the 203 has more range, about 400 meters, and a much bigger explosion.

 

MD.. Nice score on the 203. Are you going to shoot those TPT rounds? They are pretty fun. HE rounds are avaliable but you will spend a fortune on them if you can find em.

[MikeD 541]

MD.. Nice score on the 203. Are you going to shoot those TPT rounds? They are pretty fun. HE rounds are avaliable but you will spend a fortune on them if you can find em.

I'll probably shoot a few of them. Do you have any idea where to even start looking for HE 40MM rounds? I would love to have some!

[beerslurpy 1]

If you can find them is the catch. You can't.

 

IMO your best bet would be to become an SOT and start manufacturing your own.

 

Manufacturing and storing explosives brings you into an interesting area of the law, doubly so if you screw up. Strict liability is a huge bitch to deal with. Lets put it this way- if someone breaks into your shop and decides to torch it to cover his tracks- you get to foot the bill for all your neighbors that get hit by the grenades as they cook off.

[MadMax 0]

If you have any intentions to manufacture or reload any kind of round for your M-203 do all your research first. All shoulder fired 40mm HE and practice ammo are very specialized loads. Instead of a single propellent charge like most firearms we know they are a dual stage, low-high pressure arrangement.

 

When they first tried to develop the 40mm round for the prototype which became the M79 they could not get uniform pressures with a single stage charge which was at a pressure low enough to not take your arm off. They found success by copying a system invented by the Germans.

 

This system initially launches the projectile down the barrel with a low pressure charge. A very brief time interval after that first charge ignites a second higher pressure charge ignites and accelerates the projectile to a higher velocity. Spreading the projectile's acceleration over a longer time interval significantly reduces the recoil impulse felt by the shooter.

 

Trying to garage build ammo for this weapon could severely damage both gun and shooter.

[325time 1]

This is 37mm but would work with a halo rail. http://www.firequest.com/catalog/FJ915moreinfo.html

[shaneman153a 39]

Ever see anyone shoot off a practice round with the sling wrapped around the front of the barrel? Or with the barrel of the AR resting on an object and the 203 barrel pointing straight at it? Funny stuff, always clear your barrel one last time.....

[beerslurpy 1]

Yeah, obviously one would have to be very careful in designing grenade ammo. It is the sort of item prone to failing in a very dramatic fashion.

 

I would have been more concerned about getting it downrange without exploding and then making it explode reliably even on glancing hits.

 

Didnt the soviets experiment with using caseless grenade rounds? Hold the charge inside the projectile itself. It wouldn't have the low charge density problem and it would end up front heavy once it left the barrel, which would enhance stability.

[THE_HUNTER 2]

The .22 firing shell for the 203 would be a hoot to play with and cheap!

[MikeD 541]

The .22 firing shell for the 203 would be a hoot to play with and cheap!

Hell yeah, I can't wait to disintegrate stuff.

[Conju 2]

Yeah, obviously one would have to be very careful in designing grenade ammo. It is the sort of item prone to failing in a very dramatic fashion.

 

+1

 

If you're interested in reloading....

 

GRAPHIC IMAGES WARNING!

 

http://www.freewebs.com/grog/safety1.htm

[beerslurpy 1]

That would pretty much be my number one worry of playing with explosive projectiles.

[THE_HUNTER 2]

Yikes!

[MadMax 0]

Didnt the soviets experiment with using caseless grenade rounds?

Yup. The Soviet version of the 203 uses the same two-stage, dual-charge propellant but the round loads from the muzzle and has no case to leave behind.

 

I hope that everybody who owns either a registered M203, M79, or any 37mm launching device takes a look at the photos in the above link. This is serious stuff and very dangerous.

 

When I was in the Marines I was on a firing line on the day another Marine in my unit had a 'malfunction' with a LAAW set up with issued sub-caliber practice ammo. It took a chunk out of his head just below and behind his ear and he was dead before he hit the ground.

Edited December 6, 2006 by MadMax