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223 Recoil VS 7.62x39 Recoil?


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#1 ironhead7544

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:13 PM

Whats the difference in recoil between the two? I have the S-12, 308-1 and x39. Thinking of getting the 223. Thanks.

#2 -Indy-

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:37 PM

Very little difference...

I would say there will be a couple pounds more force from the X39... but its not anything really noticeable... there is very little recoil from either round in a Saiga...


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#3 ironhead7544

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:57 PM

Thanks, Indy. I notice little difference between the 308-1 and the 7.62x39 but want a gun for the recoil sensitive family members.

#4 uncle jerky

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 05:02 PM

I have both the 7.62 and 223 and to me, the recoil between the 2 rifles is significant; the recoil-sensitive members of your family will love the 223.

#5 inparidel

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 09:39 PM

I shoot the .223s and have shot the 7.62s. To be anything resembling competitive, you cannot run 7.62 against 5.45 or 5.56 mm. The recovery time for follow-up shots with the 7.62 s just too much too consider to even try to win a match.

Edited by inparidel, 09 January 2007 - 09:39 PM.

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#6 Bad Bob

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 06:29 PM

Whats the difference in recoil between the two? I have the S-12, 308-1 and x39. Thinking of getting the 223. Thanks.

This might be 'old hat' to you (in which case I apologize), but as a general 'rule of thumb,' recoil tends to increase with bullet weight (at any given velocity & any given firearm weight). The average .223/5.56 round will push a 55-60 grain bullet out the end of the barrel at 3,000 feet per second, or better (depending on barrel length). The 7.62x39 M43 will generally be loaded with a bullet that weighs about twice as much (123 grains, plus or minus), at about 2,300 FPS (again, depending on barrel length, etc.). There are equations you can use to calculate recoil (I think I've got one at work, which of course is not where I happen to be). There is also an online 'calculator' available:

http://kwk.us/recoil.html

With an input of 8.5 lb (rifle weight - based on my 16" .223 Saiga w/military folding stock, 6 compliance parts, sling, & empty mag), 3050 FPS muzzle velocity (ball park for 55 grain 5.56, 16" barrel), and 27.5 grain charge weight (ball park, from Lee reloading manual), the calculator gives 3 ft/lbs recoil for the 5.56. With an input of 8.5 lb (same rifle weight), 2300 FPS muzzle velocity (text book M43), and 25.5 grain charge weight (ball park, from Lee reloading manual), the calculator gives 6 ft/lbs recoil for the 7.62x39. In other words, if the equation & input are correct, the .223/5.56 will (in general) generate about HALF the recoil of the 7.62 M43.

FWIW (& as a way to double check the online calculator), I've got a copy of a published chart here at home that lists 7.62x39 (123 grain) recoil at 5.1 ft/lbs in an 8.5 lb rifle. The .223/5.56 unfortunately isn't listed.

Also, and again FWIW, muzzle brakes act on escaping propellant gases, not the bullet. With that in mind, I believe brakes tend to be most effective with the lightest bullets, driven at the highest velocities, with the largest propellant charges, generating the greatest volumes of propellant gases. So a muzzle brake (AK-74 or other design, if that's an option for you) would tend to be more effective with the .223/5.56 than with the 7.62 M43.

Finally, based on personal 'seat-of-the-pants' experience, with Mini-14s, ARs, AKs, SKSs, and bolt guns, I would guess that the .223/5.56 recoil is noticeably less than 7.62 M43 recoil, given comparable rifle weights, etc...

Obviously, your mileage may vary, etc., etc.,...
"He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike."

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#7 vjor

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 09:15 PM

The recoil of the 7,62x39 is heavier than the .223, now if you want all around
gun with a nice punch the 7.62x39 now ok to plink and ok when crap
can happens the .223

Ok my self love the 7.62 x 39 and it can do a lot of damage and recoil
to me is minimal, now wife likes the .223 recoil is light compare to 7.62 x 39
if all the family is to use the gun the .223 is the way to go, if mostly for you
and something that will quick some ass big time the 7.62x39.

Now like dick weed says, yea U can use the .223 for competition because of low recoil
compare to 7.62x39 but man that 7.62x39 with 30 rounders can do some real damage
in real world scenario.
Some people say I'm a grumpy, mean, old man.
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If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

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#8 Bad Bob

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 08:09 PM

...but man that 7.62x39 with 30 rounders can do some real damage
in real world scenario.


Not to mention an AK with a 75-rd or 100-rd drum - and 7.62 drums are a lot cheaper than .223 drums...

;>)
"He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike."

John Locke, 'Second Treatise on Civil Government,' 1690

#9 inparidel

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 12:26 AM

The recoil of the 7,62x39 is heavier than the .223, now if you want all around
gun with a nice punch the 7.62x39 now ok to plink and ok when crap
can happens the .223

Ok my self love the 7.62 x 39 and it can do a lot of damage and recoil
to me is minimal, now wife likes the .223 recoil is light compare to 7.62 x 39
if all the family is to use the gun the .223 is the way to go, if mostly for you
and something that will quick some ass big time the 7.62x39.

Now like dick weed says, yea U can use the .223 for competition because of low recoil
compare to 7.62x39 but man that 7.62x39 with 30 rounders can do some real damage
in real world scenario.


Veej. . .after a few PMs and my invites for you to come out and shoot with us at my club, I THOUGHT we were friends. . .but. . . I am pretty surprised to read the "dick weed" comment. Cobra asked me to get to know you to get you out of the house and shoot with my club, but. . ."dickweed????" What have I ever done to you? Forget about shooting with us. Our club is one of the largest and most important in the Southeast US. We have some of the best shooters in the SE and have ex and current mil, SWAT and spec ops people from this country and from abroad. You could have learned alot. We also at least wait for people to screw with us before we call them names. I am sorry you turned out to be. . .well. . .it takes one to know one. Your loss bud. I am on the BOD of the club and therefore, I would have easily let you shoot for free for a while because Cobra said you were cool and needed to get out and didn't have much cash. I was willing to do all that, but now. . . . enjoy yourself. See, 'ya!

P.S.

read and learn something:

http://home.snafu.de...d_patterns.html

Edited by inparidel, 22 January 2007 - 01:01 AM.

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#10 vjor

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:13 AM

The recoil of the 7,62x39 is heavier than the .223, now if you want all around
gun with a nice punch the 7.62x39 now ok to plink and ok when crap
can happens the .223

Ok my self love the 7.62 x 39 and it can do a lot of damage and recoil
to me is minimal, now wife likes the .223 recoil is light compare to 7.62 x 39
if all the family is to use the gun the .223 is the way to go, if mostly for you
and something that will quick some ass big time the 7.62x39.

Now like dick weed says, yea U can use the .223 for competition because of low recoil
compare to 7.62x39 but man that 7.62x39 with 30 rounders can do some real damage
in real world scenario.


Veej. . .after a few PMs and my invites for you to come out and shoot with us at my club, I THOUGHT we were friends. . .but. . . I am pretty surprised to read the "dick weed" comment. Cobra asked me to get to know you to get you out of the house and shoot with my club, but. . ."dickweed????" What have I ever done to you? Forget about shooting with us. Our club is one of the largest and most important in the Southeast US. We have some of the best shooters in the SE and have ex and current mil, SWAT and spec ops people from this country and from abroad. You could have learned alot. We also at least wait for people to screw with us before we call them names. I am sorry you turned out to be. . .well. . .it takes one to know one. Your loss bud. I am on the BOD of the club and therefore, I would have easily let you shoot for free for a while because Cobra said you were cool and needed to get out and didn't have much cash. I was willing to do all that, but now. . . . enjoy yourself. See, 'ya!

P.S.

read and learn something:

http://home.snafu.de...d_patterns.html



You know, first you have send me 2 Pm one I ask you for a part
and you tell me that go search on the forum after you tell me
you know people to do parts and stuff, pure crap of your part
second PM you send me was to ask me if Chris butler was
still doing .223 and talk shit about some other gun smith member
of this forum, something I don’t do because I don’t even know
the man, third the only time you invite my self to go there
was one time on the chat, don’t type crap like you were
offering me stuff all the time and were my friend at all, now
I am don’t going to bother to type any more because I am tired
and sick on bed, if I wanted to go there I will be there but I don’t
think so my friend, if I have to deal with people like you
I be damn if I wanted to be there.


Now I am going to leave it this way, I am not a bitch or woman
to keep going and going with the same crap.

be cool if you can.

Carlo.

Edited by vjor, 22 January 2007 - 09:33 AM.

Some people say I'm a grumpy, mean, old man.
That's not true.
I have the heart of a kind and gentle soul...
in a jar on my desk.


No man is a match for a woman's tears.
When in need! Use and RPG……

If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.

I don't care what people say as long as I get what I want.

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!

"One of the most horrible features of war is that all the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."
—George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia, 1938

I CAN HAVE THE WEAPON I REALLY ALWAYS WANTED !!!! I DO IT MY SELF,
WHY!!!!!! BECAUSE I CAN, CAN YOU?????

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#11 MD_Willington

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 05:59 PM

Go out and shoot a half dozen .30-378's.. then shoot the 7.62x39... you'll be thinking "recoil, what recoil".. LOL
If it is called common sense, why ain't it too common anymore?

#12 Bad Bob

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 06:39 PM

Go out and shoot a half dozen .30-378's.. then shoot the 7.62x39... you'll be thinking "recoil, what recoil".. LOL


If you're shooting .30-378's, sir, you're way, way out of my league (talk about 'HIGH performance').

Now, I do know a gent who has a .50 BMG (haven't gone shooting with him yet, dang it, even though I did offer to buy some ammo for the excursion when he has the time ;>). But most of those puppies weigh as much as your favorite dog, and come equipped with muzzle brakes the size of a pop bottle, so I'm not sure how the recoil would compare to your 'mega-30'...
"He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike."

John Locke, 'Second Treatise on Civil Government,' 1690

#13 -Indy-

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:39 PM

Most 50 BMG's with any decent brake will have very mild recoil, comparative to what you would expect from a round that big.

Mine doesnt have a super high tech brake, just the machined "shark gill" brake, and it is far more comfortable to shoot than any pump action 12 gauge, with 3" shells, and many high power bolt actions.

I would rather shoot my .50 BMG than my buddies .416 Remington magnum, or his .308 Lazzeroni Warbird. Both of thouse have some serious OUCH factor... I can shoot the .50 all day long and enjoy it, without worrying about any sore shoulders! :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#14 macbeau

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:17 AM

I seem to recall that, throughout my military career, Army small arms trainers refer to the recoil of the 5.56x45mm NATO (.223 Rem) as a "firing impulse". To me, that more accurately describes the recoil of a .223 AND 7.62x39. In my experience, muzzle-rise is slightly more of a problem with 7.62x39, but neither one are big kickers.

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#15 craig110

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:28 AM

IMO, comparing the recoil of a 7.62 and 5.56 is the equivalent of comparing tiny versus tinier. My advice would be to let your family members shoot both to see that recoil is a non-issue with those calibers (hopefully!) and then pick the caliber you purchase based on the characteristics other than just recoil.

#16 MD_Willington

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 03:24 PM

Go out and shoot a half dozen .30-378's.. then shoot the 7.62x39... you'll be thinking "recoil, what recoil".. LOL


If you're shooting .30-378's, sir, you're way, way out of my league (talk about 'HIGH performance').

Now, I do know a gent who has a .50 BMG (haven't gone shooting with him yet, dang it, even though I did offer to buy some ammo for the excursion when he has the time ;>). But most of those puppies weigh as much as your favorite dog, and come equipped with muzzle brakes the size of a pop bottle, so I'm not sure how the recoil would compare to your 'mega-30'...



A buddy from college had one... I wouldn't call shooting it an enjoyable experience.
If it is called common sense, why ain't it too common anymore?

#17 Bad Bob

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:11 PM

...I would rather shoot my .50 BMG than my buddies .416 Remington magnum, or his .308 Lazzeroni Warbird. Both of thouse have some serious OUCH factor... I can shoot the .50 all day long and enjoy it, without worrying about any sore shoulders! :up:

:smoke:

Maybe I'm just a wimp. I used to have a friend who had a .300 Win Mag (built on a Mauser action) and a .375 H&H (or ".375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express," as the Brits used to call it, which name I prefer, because it kind of rolls off the tongue, and because it's almost as long as the cartridge case ;>). The .375 was a Sako, with an appropriate low-power Leupold scope mounted, that my buddy bought off a guy, who had purchased it (after much research) because it was the 'PERFECT' combination of hunting rifle/scope/cartridge. The guy fired half a box of ammo, realized a .375 H&H was not 'PERFECT' for him, and then planted the works (the Sako, with Leupold scope, & the remaining half box of cartridges) in his closet for 15 or 20 years. My friend got it for $600, in mint condition, including the 'spare' 10 cartridges.

Being an old fart, I'm running on like Grandpa Simpson (sorry). Bottom line: I've fired a light-weight(?) .300, and a medium-weight .375, and didn't much care for either one (.30-06 is fine by me). My opinion might be different, of course, if I had some critter with "blood in it's eyes" comin' down my throat (in which case I might wish I had your friends .416 in my hands ;>).

By the way: where do you live? If you can shoot a .50 BMG all day, you must have piles of ammo (and probably guns ;>), which means any number of guys here would love to go shootin' with you...

(Just funnin' you, sir... ;>)
"He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike."

John Locke, 'Second Treatise on Civil Government,' 1690

#18 Bad Bob

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 06:13 PM

A buddy from college had one... I wouldn't call shooting it an enjoyable experience.

I can identify - even a .375 was a bit over my limit (see above)...

;>)
"He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike."

John Locke, 'Second Treatise on Civil Government,' 1690




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