Gunsmiths, Saiga shotguns, and the AWB

[1st Ranger 0]

Does anyone know if any specific smiths are tooling up to be ready to handle all the folding stock, PG conversions come mid September (please, please, please)? I imagine that there will be a lot of people out there, myself included, that will want to have their shotguns converted. Does anyone here recommend a good smith that specializes in Saigas? Thanks for the info.

 

1st Ranger

[PvtPyle 0]

I have already done nearly a half dozen for other dealers waiting for the ban to sunset. They are faily straigh foreward once you have the parts. You just need todecide if you want screws or rivets to hold the trigger guard on.

 

I am also going to sell my LEO version with the side folder and shorter barrel already done for about $600. She has less than 100rds thru it. If anyone is interested let me know.

[hardcorps1775 1]

so, you're gonna be our go-to-guy?

 

what'll you charge and what do you need to do the deed?

[Silverfox 0]

sure would be nice if we could find a U.S. manufacturer for the mags...that would account for 3 parts off the "imported parts" list...then with a U.S. made FCG , grip and stock we would have more U.S. parts than we need..by my count we will still need either a U.S. made piston or handguard otherwise and i havent seen either of those parts for sale for the s-12 anywhere ...

[Mephis 82]

Heres an idea, get some metal, carve "Made in USA" on it and stamp the mag. The difference=0.

[beerslurpy 1]

I have already done nearly a half dozen for other dealers waiting for the ban to sunset. They are faily straigh foreward once you have the parts. You just need todecide if you want screws or rivets to hold the trigger guard on.

 

I am also going to sell my LEO version with the side folder and shorter barrel already done for about $600. She has less than 100rds thru it. If anyone is interested let me know.

I already have someone lined up to do the 18.5 inch barrel conversion, but I need a source for PG/FS conversion and an affordable source for drum mags or high cap box mags.

 

If it really comes down to it I can break out the metal shears and make my own, but I would obviously prefer the convenience of getting a high quality mass produced part.

[Molefortress 0]

Please forgive my lack of knowledge on this particular subject, but I have some questions reguarding the AWB and importation laws. Would it be possible to order a 12 with all the "goodies" on it (folding stock, pistol grip etc...) after the AWB sunsets? Will the new SWAT model be available for civilian purchase or is it still to be LEO. If the answers to any of these questions is yes who can I talk to about making a purchase?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Chris

[KySoldier 2]

The ones with the "goodies" are also 100% Russian parts and therefore aren't compliant with the '89 ban.

[Panzerschreck 0]

I'm not trying to open a can of worms, but the 89 import ban had nothing to do with shotguns or pistols. Only rifles were affected. The 94 ban introduced restrictions on shotguns, imported or domestic. If 94 goes away, there's still nothing about shotguns in the 89 import ban.

 

There may be some specific import restriction on pistol grip mag fed shotguns such as the SPAS-15 or mag fed M3 that is not as widely known. For instance HK SP 89s and other "assault pistols" were banned from importation by a Clinton executive order.

 

Shotguns that were affected by the ban such as a pistol grip Benelli with a full mag tube were importable until 94 with no US parts. Why would it be any different if the so called assault wepaon ban sunsets?

[Bvamp 604]

because it is based on a kalishnakov action? just throwing that one out there.

[kmoore 3]

because it is based on a kalishnakov action? just throwing that one out there.

 

Well throw it back

 

Panzer, thanks a lot, I now need to go reread those sections.

 

I know you well enough to know not to doubt your firearms knowledge, but if this is the case, why would the ATF rule on the parts make up of the Saiga Shotty?

 

Is it possible that the ATF merely answered the question of what it considers foriegn parts, and whether the firearm in question was restricted from import? AKATTACK shared this link elsewhere. ATF list of parts in a Saiga

 

Or is it possible that the interpretation of what was considered sporting changed (like their views on thumbhole stocks?)

 

Now I'm good and confused again. Just like when I shoot ... heh

[Panzerschreck 0]

The ATF letter defininig the parts in a Saiga shotgun looks like it was a response to Wes at Soupbowl. I believe he was the one who came up with the idea of adding US parts to imported rifles to allow evil features as domestically produced rifles. It looks like he just happened to ask about Saiga shotguns in addition to the rifles. I don't think it has any more signifigance than asking that the parts of a Beretta autoloading shotgun be defined. He was trying to work on a Saiga 12 at one point with a pistol grip and proprietary mag, but ATF vetoed his design.

 

Unless there is an ATF ruling I don't know about, once the 94 restrictions go away, the shotgun restrictions go away. There were no specific restrictions on imported shotguns prior to 94. The Benelli M3 was imported with a pistol grip, folding stock and 7+1 capacity.

 

The US parts were a way to make imported rifles into domestic rifles to get around the 89 import ban. Shotguns were never a part of the 89 ban.

 

I don't think EAA would be able import full blown Saiga 12s with pistol grips and folders because they wouldn't be suitable for sporting purposes and would risk being declared destructive devices. However, since shotguns were never a part of the import ban, I don't think parts content is critical for converting Saiga 12s to a pistol grip configuration. It could be a case though that it wouldn't hurt to have the US parts to avoid any questions.

[kmoore 3]

I don't think EAA would be able import full blown Saiga 12s with pistol grips and folders because they wouldn't be suitable for sporting purposes

I thought I read that we can't build what couldn't be imported (without taking care to get under the parts count). I don't know that I was careful to see if it was speaking directly about rifles, or any firearm at all?

 

 

and would risk being declared destructive devices

I'm with you there.

[AKATTACK 5]

Panzerschreck, if I remember correctly, the 1989 Ban is known as Section 922r, this is the ban that is gonna stay as it has NO sunset provision. Section 922v is the Assault Weapons Ban and it is set to expire on Sept. 13, 2004. I did a little research in the ATF Rulebook, then found a link to the section. The 1989 import deals with BOTH rifles and shotguns! I thought you might be on to something as I couldn't remember myself and had to look it up, LOL. Here's the link:Click here. Scroll down to page 28. Notice it is titled:Assembly of Nonsporting Semiautomatic Rifles and Shotguns From Imported Parts. AKATTACK

Edited September 11, 2004 by AKATTACK

[Integratedj 1]

Derek @ AZEX arms in Arizona will be doing them. You can contact him on his sight or at gunsnet.

[beerslurpy 1]

Derek @ AZEX arms in Arizona will be doing them. You can contact him on his sight or at gunsnet.

For those of us that dont live in AZ, could you provide contact information? Actually, would sending him the gun across state lines count as a "transfer?" Would you need to have an FFL send him the gun and then have him send the gun back to an FFL? God I have the fucking ATF.

[hardcorps1775 1]

Derek @ AZEX arms in Arizona will be doing them. You can contact him on his sight or at gunsnet.

For those of us that dont live in AZ, could you provide contact information? Actually, would sending him the gun across state lines count as a "transfer?" Would you need to have an FFL send him the gun and then have him send the gun back to an FFL? God I have the fucking ATF.

derek huffman

 

azex

723 w. commerce

unit bay 2,

gilbert, az 85233

 

(480)507-0200

 

azexarms@hotmail.com

 

http://www.azexarms.com/

 

he has an ffl. you don't need one to ship to him or get yours back.

Edited September 11, 2004 by hardcorps1775

[Integratedj 1]

Thanks of rshowing the contact info, I fell asleep before I could post it. He does good work from what I have seen, and is one of the more honost guys I have talked too. He is a little more expensive than some, but then again so is Krebs. But you get what you pay for. As for my conversion I will be doing it, and then either having derek refinish the metal, or I will do a moly resin job on it. just depends on available funds this coming week. I just bought the Saiga and an SVD, so funds are short. I can't wait to have the grip on this thing though.