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The Complete U.S. Parts Count!!!


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#1 moxie1c

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:55 AM

Considering a conversion?? Not sure what parts count towards compliance? Hopefully this will help.
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#2 moxie1c

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:59 AM

And by the way, this was my first post and this is the best forum for Saiga's. With everything I have read here I feel ready to do my conversion 7.62x39. I have been reading for 2-3 weeks and just joined this week, it is great to be part of this community!

Edited by moxie1c, 10 February 2007 - 02:00 AM.


#3 -Indy-

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:00 PM

Good post Moxie...


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#4 Juggernaut

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:04 PM

Someone should Sticky this one!

I'm all about "keep it simple stupid!"

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#5 moxie1c

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 04:31 PM

Someone should Sticky this one!

I'm all about "keep it simple stupid!"

I agree with the sticky! Everything finally made a lot more sense when I had this infront of me and at once I knew I was on "a mission from God" to post it here. :blues:

#6 tritium

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 06:11 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.
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#7 scoutjoe

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 06:39 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.


http://soupbowl.kala....ru/page12.html

kinda like that one i put up on the tech section?
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#8 tritium

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:20 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.


http://soupbowl.kala....ru/page12.html

kinda like that one i put up on the tech section?

Yep. It does address Saiga shotguns by brand name but not the rifles. That list also doesn't give a parts count "out of the box" for Saiga rifles which I think confuses some (usually newer) people.

Edited by tritium, 12 February 2007 - 07:27 PM.

A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
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Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#9 scoutjoe

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 08:20 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.


http://soupbowl.kala....ru/page12.html

kinda like that one i put up on the tech section?

Yep. It does address Saiga shotguns by brand name but not the rifles. That list also doesn't give a parts count "out of the box" for Saiga rifles which I think confuses some (usually newer) people.


It does list the AK though, which is "close enough for goverment work"
"Additionally, I refuse to date a girl if she doesn't know how to proficiently load, unload, and operate any of my weapons"~AegisDei

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From the Skippy List
87. If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.

Gun owner in PA? You need to check this out http://www.pafoa.org/

#10 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 09:36 AM

of COURSE hes gonna want his topic pinned! LOL, come on now!

I think that that is a record though. first post from a new user pinned. that might be impossible to beat, that one. youd have to post twice with two new topics and have them both pinned, I think, to beat that.
Rockin the Saiga world since 2003

#11 tritium

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.


http://soupbowl.kala....ru/page12.html

kinda like that one i put up on the tech section?

Yep. It does address Saiga shotguns by brand name but not the rifles. That list also doesn't give a parts count "out of the box" for Saiga rifles which I think confuses some (usually newer) people.


It does list the AK though, which is "close enough for goverment work"

I still stand by my suggestion. Spell it out plain and simple, for out of the box SAIGAS specifically. Perfect example of why--this is a post from the .223 section today:

"This should be a short topic, though maybe not.
I've heard differing counts on the number of non-compliant saiga parts, some say 14 some say 11.
My confusion might just be due to people not being entirely clear on whether they are talking about shotguns or rifles or what...

So does anyone know the one true answer? rolleyes.gif

How many russian made, non-compliance parts does a retail saiga have (specify whether mag is included as non-comp or not).

Thanks!"

Edited by tritium, 13 February 2007 - 03:17 PM.

A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#12 DougG

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 03:29 PM

*tear*
You quoted my topic but still didn't answer it. Hehe, just kidding...
Sorry, I didn't realize there was already a hot topic on this subject. I do try to read around before I ask questions, but I'm still getting used to the forums.
I'm planning on getting a saiga and trying a compliance conversion soon, it will be my first gun. I've taken the complete trip from 0 knowledge to getting ready to make an attempt, and I agree that a solid compliance thread stickied would be a good idea. I will do the write up myself once I get some hands on experience with a gun.
In the meantime, a parts count for each different saiga would be handy as a stickied bullet, possibly in the tech/conversion section.

#13 moxie1c

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 08:35 PM

I'd suggest an accompanying stickie delineating the parts count out of the box specifically for a SAIGA brand shotty, and 7.62x39/.223/.308. Also a clarification on if a Saiga rifle has a trunion or not ( I say not.) This would eliminate many redundant posts.


http://soupbowl.kala....ru/page12.html

kinda like that one i put up on the tech section?



Right on Scoutjoe, when you put these two together you have a great print to work with.

#14 skud_dusty

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:08 PM

Ok, I'll admit I'm a total noob on the subject...but I just got my saiga yesterday, and would like to convert it. Is there anyway I can convert it without having to change the FCG? I don't really want to pay someone to do it, and I don't have the tools to do it. Can I change the barrel, bolt, stock, and put a pistol grip on it, or do I need more parts? Any suggestions? Manufacturers that I can contact for parts?

#15 tritium

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 02:37 PM

Ok, I'll admit I'm a total noob on the subject...but I just got my saiga yesterday, and would like to convert it. Is there anyway I can convert it without having to change the FCG? I don't really want to pay someone to do it, and I don't have the tools to do it. Can I change the barrel, bolt, stock, and put a pistol grip on it, or do I need more parts? Any suggestions? Manufacturers that I can contact for parts?

Welcome to the forum!

There are no US made Saiga barrels or bolts, and besides replacing a barrel is a giant PITA. Your most ecoomical and best documented way to convert is with the FCG/PG etc. and enough other parts to get you at or below ten foreign parts as outlined in the soupbowl letter. You have available US made stocks, foregrips, gas pistons to replace foreign ones. There are many sources for US parts including Tapco, Copes, Kvar, Centerfire Systems, CDNN, Midwest Armory to get you started. Conversion tutorials are in the Guest Section of the forum under the Technical Section.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#16 skud_dusty

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 09:42 AM

Approximately how much would it cost to have someone convert the FCG for me?

#17 tritium

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 09:53 AM

Approximately how much would it cost to have someone convert the FCG for me?

Well a US G2 single hook FCG would cost somewhere between $26-$38 depending where you buy it. You need one other US part (besides the PG), so look at some stocks, handguards, or less preferably a gas piston (since it's a little more of a pain in the butt to swap out.) Moving the FCG doesn't take very long itself and can be done with a drill and Dremel tool. You may or may not need to cut a hole for the PG. A gunsmith could do the swap and cut a hole and assembly probably in an hour or less.. What's their going rate? Varies from individual to individual. It is a project that you can do with a little studying of the conversion tutorials and some patience, and the forum is always around if you have questions.

Edited by tritium, 20 March 2007 - 09:54 AM.

A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#18 skud_dusty

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 02:37 PM

I've got a tapco folding stock and pistol grip, so with the FCG I should be compliant correct? What does PG stand for? Sorry for all my amateur comments and questions, figured this would be the correct thread to post in but if not, feel free to correct me =)

Thank you for the info!

#19 tritium

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 05:19 PM

I've got a tapco folding stock and pistol grip, so with the FCG I should be compliant correct? What does PG stand for? Sorry for all my amateur comments and questions, figured this would be the correct thread to post in but if not, feel free to correct me =)

Thank you for the info!

Yep, with the stock, PG (pistol grip), and FCG you should be ready to roll.

There are a couple posts in the not too distant past on several common abbreviations used on the forum. Try a search for them and the mysteries will be solved. You'll pick it up quickly anyway. ;)
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#20 skud_dusty

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 10:35 PM

Thanks for the quick response and all the info, I'm still figuring out if I want to sink some money into the saiga or go to the dark side (gasp) and get an AR. Guess I need to head to my local smith this weekend and see how much he'll charge me ;)

#21 tritium

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 12:30 AM

Thanks for the quick response and all the info, I'm still figuring out if I want to sink some money into the saiga or go to the dark side (gasp) and get an AR. Guess I need to head to my local smith this weekend and see how much he'll charge me ;)

Even if you convert a Saiga 7.62 it will still be less than a decent AR, and the Saiga is much less finicky re: cleaning and ammo.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#22 skud_dusty

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 01:09 AM

Cleaning isn't an issue for me...If I put a single round through any one of my firearms it gets cleaned. I'm pretty bad about it, but then again I also really enjoy cleaning them. You do have a good point with the ammo though, from looking aound it seems 7.62 is a lot cheaper than .223 :(

Don't get me wrong...I love my Saiga, but I'm not sure if I want to sink more money into it or not :P

#23 BillTX

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 04:19 PM

Here's a nifty worksheet from Survivor's SKS Forum, and which was actually stored on a Star Wars board :eek: .

It'll help get ya up to snuff on your scary assault weapon of mass destruction! :rolleyes:

Bill

ETA: Updated worksheet... I think I have it correct now! If not, please let me know! B

ETAA: OK, I can't upload an xls file, how about in zipped form? Yep!

Attached Files


Edited by BillTX, 24 April 2007 - 07:20 AM.

Please check out the Posted Image at their website, and if it makes as much sense to you as to me, please ask your representatives to support it!

#24 vjor

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:24 PM

Here's a nifty worksheet from Survivor's SKS Forum, and which was actually stored on a Star Wars board :eek: .

It'll help get ya up to snuff on your scary assault weapon of mass destruction! :rolleyes:

Bill

ETA: Updated worksheet... I think I have it correct now! If not, please let me know! B


Were is the worksheet, I dont see it.
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Posted Image


#25 Juggernaut

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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:51 PM

Not to go off topic, I'm moving this to Tech Section.

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#26 BlackBear

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:49 PM

Here's a nifty worksheet from Survivor's SKS Forum, and which was actually stored on a Star Wars board :eek: .

It'll help get ya up to snuff on your scary assault weapon of mass destruction! :rolleyes:

Bill

ETA: Updated worksheet... I think I have it correct now! If not, please let me know! B

ETAA: OK, I can't upload an xls file, how about in zipped form? Yep!


Damn, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about making just last night! But then I worked.
Working always gets in the way of the important things, don't you think?

Anyway, thanks for that, that helps a lot!


The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution,
the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?

~Semper Vigilans~


Posted Image




#27 LESchwartz

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:12 PM

A stamped-receiver AK has 15 922® parts (16 if you have a muzzle brake -- see Note #6 below).

A milled-receiver AK has 14 922® parts (15 if you have a muzzle brake).

A OEM Saiga hunting rifle has a stamped-receiver, no pistol grip and no muzzle brake (14 parts)

  • Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
  • Barrels
  • *Mounting blocks (front trunion on stamped-receiver AK)
  • *Muzzle attachments
  • Bolts
  • Bolt carriers
  • Gas pistons
  • Triggers
  • Hammers
  • Disconnectors
  • Buttstocks
  • Pistol grips
  • Forearm handguards (upper and lower together count as 1 part)
  • Magazine body
  • Followers
  • Floorplates

The following US-made parts are readily available to substitute to acheive the required number of ten or less imported parts to be 922®-compliant:

  • buttstock
  • pistol grip
  • upper and lower handguards (upper and lower together count as 1 part)
  • muzzle brake
  • gas piston
  • hammer
  • trigger
  • disconnector
  • receiver
  • Magazine body
  • follower
  • floorplate

NOTE #1: The upper and lower together count as 1 part. Here's the reference: ATF letter posted on the Soupbowl Enterprises web site.

NOTE #2: On the AMD-65 & AMD-63, there is no upper handguard. However, the lower handguard and forward pistol grip together are one counted part. For more infomation see: AMD Info from ATF.

NOTE #3: Caution should be used when using US-made followers, floorplates, or magazine bodies. The following quote was taken from an ATF letter posted on the Soupbowl Enterprises web site: “However, if the modified rifle were possessed with an imported magazine that does not have a domestically manufactured follower a violation of § 922® would occur.”

NOTE #4: If you're building up a parts kit that came with a full-auto FCG, it needs to be replaced no matter what.

NOTE #5: Acording to ATF a thumbhole stock counts as two 922® parts -- a buttstock and a pistol grip. For more infomation see: Saiga Drag Stock Letter from ATF.

NOTE #6: The nut used to protect the muzzle threads is likely considered a "muzzle attachment" by ATF. This means the muzzle nut should be considered a "muzzle break".

NOTE #7: "Trunnion" is an old cannon term that refers to the cylindrical projections on either side of a cannon barrel that allows it to pivit. Only front "trunnion" fits this description of a barrel mounting block. The answer to question #2 in this letter clearly states that the rear trunion is uncounted.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I am not a 922®-legal specialist. The above information is simply a summary of the consensus of AK-47 owners & builders of the 922® regulations as available by a search of the Net.
For more info see my SKS FAQ: http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html

#28 LESchwartz

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:14 PM

I have never owned a Saiga shotgun, but I would think that it has a front trunnion and that the letter from ATF referenced above is in error . . .

Larry
For more info see my SKS FAQ: http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html

#29 piperbret

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 06:56 PM

Help!!
I am a new forum member and a new owner of a Saiga .308 sporter rifle with a 16" barrel. I must admit that after reading and re-reading the posts, I am totally confused on the 922r requirements. In a nutshell, it appears that if I want to use 20 round magazines with my Saiga, I need to replace a part with a USA made part. This being said, I ordered a gas rod from a good, on-line store. The add says that the part counts as 1, 922r replacement part. After receiving the part, I saw on multiple threads (this forum) that this in not true after all, and Tapco is going to remove the statement from their website. So, what can I do, as a minimum, to be compliant with extended magazines? Can I just replace the forward handguard? Is that enough. I like my rifle and I am really not interested in putting on pistol grips or moving the trigger and etc.

I admit that I am not knowledgeable about the subject and thus need your help.

This forum is great and I thank you for the opportunity to read and learn from your posts!!!!

Cheers

#30 nalioth

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 11:05 PM

I saw on multiple threads (this forum) that this in not true after all, and Tapco is going to remove the statement from their website.


Tapco doesn't make the law, they just make the junk we have to use to abide by it.

First off, what, exactly is the part you're referring to? Please let us know and we can provide more insight.
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.




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