akdog 3 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I got an email from Aim saying they are likely to sell Russian steel cased shotgun shells in the near future. Barnaul or some kind of bear ammunition. If you are interested, email or call them and let them know you are. These shells won't deform like plastic shells do when kept loaded in a Saiga magazine up against the bolt. Aim 3801 Lefferson Rd Middletown, OH 45044 Fax 513-424-9970 Phone 513-424-9960 www.aimsurplus.com http://www.aimsurplus.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I got an email from Aim saying they are likely to sell Russian steel cased shotgun shells in the near future. Interesting, but I wonder what effect steel cases will have on the extractor and chamber? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I got an email from Aim saying they are likely to sell Russian steel cased shotgun shells in the near future. Interesting, but I wonder what effect steel cases will have on the extractor and chamber? I can't imagine that the steel in the shotshells is harder than the steel of the extractor I missed the last time I saw these in this country, I won't miss it again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mira263 0 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 aren't saiga shotguns made to fire steel cased rounds? I wonder if they will get 20ga as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Ak type guns shoot steel cased rounds just fine. Saiga shotguns are no different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frr 1 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 interesting... Id be interested in these from what I have read, the top round is the one being deformed. For home defense purposes, do you think you could load ten rounders with 9 standard plastic rounds and then top it off with one steel round? or would it be best to have the entire mag filled with steel rounds? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 interesting... Id be interested in these from what I have read, the top round is the one being deformed. For home defense purposes, do you think you could load ten rounders with 9 standard plastic rounds and then top it off with one steel round? or would it be best to have the entire mag filled with steel rounds? That could work too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Telly458 0 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Yea,the 'brass' part of a standard (u.s. made) shotshell is plated steel anyway.Samey-same!. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
surfmaster 5 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Building upon Azrial's comment, does anyone know whether you can damage the extractor claw by pulling the bolt back and manually insert a round in the chamber and closing the bolt as opposed to using a loaded magazine to chamber a round? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 THE Saiga shotties are made for steel hulls. That is my ONLY HD loading. I am no fan of abusing any weapon by forcing the bolt to close on a chanbered round. ALL OTHER DISCUSSIONS ASIDE-THAT IS JUST GUN ABUSE. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-308 2 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) I just talked to Eric and he says they probably won't get them? Edited March 2, 2007 by AK-308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) The steel hull ammo is suppose to prevent top round deformation. It had been cosidered low priced stuff kind of like the other steel cased AK Russian ammo. I did have a case of Barnual 12G 00 Buck that was the Over All Length was too long for the Russian mags. Especially the 8 rounders. It didn't matter how much material I removed from the mag they would not feed worth a crap. I considered trying to trim down the cases, but I never got anywhere with that idea yet. I'm wondering how risky it would be to use a monster size case trimmer on a live round.? Any ideas on this issue is welcome. The times I was able to get the five rounders to feed it, was interesting to see the looks on the faces of others at the range. Edited March 3, 2007 by cscharlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) The steel hull ammo is suppose to prevent top round deformation. It had been cosidered low priced stuff kind of like the other steel cased AK Russian stuff. I did have a case of Barnual 12G 00 Buck that was the Over All Length was too long for the Russian mags. Especially the 8 rounders. It didn't matter how much material I removed from the mag they would not feed worth a crap. I considered trying to trim down the cases, but I never got anywhere with that idea yet. I'm wondering how risky it would be to use a monster size case trimmer on a live round.? Any ideas on this issue is welcome. The times I was able to get the five rounders to feed the stuff was interesting to see the looks on the faces of others at the range. The Email I got came from Bryan @ Aim. Barnaul has 70mm 2 3/4 inch shells http://www.barnaulammunition.com/shotgun.htm Im confused how these would not fit being only 2 3/4 inch. CSCharlie you mentioned the ones you had were 3 inch? Did your box of shells say 70mm? Are these the same? I want a few cases of the slugs. Edited March 2, 2007 by dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
osprey21 5 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 From the horses mouth..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 From the horses mouth..... that steel cased Barnal was great stuff when it was around. The boxes said 2 3/4", but they were longer than some of my 3" US ammo. Would not even fit into my 8 round mags. Worked like clock work orange in my 5 rounders though, and no deformed anything but my shoulder. Had a case of 250 rounds at one time and loved it all. Never saw the pipe shut down until it was too late. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Im confused how these would not fit being only 2 3/4 inch. CSCharlie you mentioned the ones you had were 3 inch? Did your box of shells say 70mm? Are these the same? AIM says they're getting 7.5cm shells. That's 2.953". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 3"is the CHAMBER length. 3" shells are only 3" after shooting. The steel hulls do not unfold a crimp. Therefore the chamber length is 1/4" shorter for the steelhulls - even tho the unfired shells are 2 3/4"-the same as paper/plastic 3" shell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Im confused how these would not fit being only 2 3/4 inch. CSCharlie you mentioned the ones you had were 3 inch? Did your box of shells say 70mm? Are these the same? AIM says they're getting 7.5cm shells. That's 2.953". Thats weird. The Barnaul site says 70mm = 7cm And http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM876-3274-1968.html these 410 shells appear to be 2 3/4 inch 70mm same size length as on the barnaul factory site matched to 70mm for the 12 gauge In any case, its a good start. Ill be buying as many cases as I can afford. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 (edited) From the Barnaul website : http://www.barnaulammunition.com/shotgun.htm The cartridges for smooth-bore armor produced by our plant are used for professional and amateur hunting, safeguard business and stand shooting. Cartridges are equipped with shot as well as with bullets. Cases and wads we use are of own origin as well as of foreign companies. The caliber 12 with steel seamless case has attracted hunters because the case can be used repeatedly and continuously, more than 20 times and it has a good price. Plastic case cartridges do not have the same qualities. When a magazine sticks, it causes delays and leads to trouble when shooting. Plastic case cartridges are not good for security structures, which require strong and simple cartridge. Barnaul manufactures .410 cartridges with steel seamless case that don't have any of the above mentioned defects. These are popular in Russia and abroad. Edited March 2, 2007 by dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAC_TEK 0 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I'm going to try and add some light with this ammo when used with an 8 round mag, and the new 10 rounder. I have found that the 10 rounder will only allow 3 rounds to be loaded into the mag before the shells start to bind. How you see it in the picture is how it sets on the follower. I had to push the nose of the shell down to load the second the the third. I was able to fill the 8 rounder all the way as you would normally. The only problem I found was the weight of the rounds. The spring has a little problem pushing up the weight of the loaded mag without giving it a little shake. However this was only cycled by hand out of the mag and (I have not tested yet) may not be a problem at all when shooting, due to the shock of the recoil. As you can see in the pics the Barnaul fits in the 8 rounders quite well. I had no problems loading a 8 rounds, however I did see a plastic shaving or two when I removed the shells from the mag, but did not have any resistance either way. Here is a pic of the box. Sorry for the poor picture quality. The macro function on my camera is shot. I hope this helps you all out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 (edited) Barnaul makes both plastic and steel cased shot shells but the Russians seem to prefer the steel cased ammo. They feel that plastic cases cause binding and reliability problems. This is from their website: Plastic case cartridges do not have the same qualities. When a magazine sticks, it causes delays and leads to trouble when shooting. Plastic case cartridges are not good for security structures, which require strong and simple cartridge. Barnaul manufactures .410 cartridges with steel seamless case that don't have any of the above mentioned defects. These are popular in Russia and abroad. Leave it to AIM Surplus to find this ammo. They're my favorite toy store, I enjoy going to Middletown, Ohio to shop there. Edited March 3, 2007 by uzitiger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 (edited) I was able to fill the 8 rounder all the way as you would normally. The only problem I found was the weight of the rounds. The spring has a little problem pushing up the weight of the loaded mag without giving it a little shake. Stronger springs might be in order. Wolff springs could potentially create a market for Saiga Mag extra-power springs. http://www.gunsprings.com/ Ak mags do wear out. I bought some used 40 round romanian mags a few years ago that wouldnt feed right till I put new springs in them. I can see the need for Saiga mag springs if you shoot alot. All parts wear out eventually. Edited March 3, 2007 by dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimhickey 0 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Any reloaders here? How do you reload the Barnaul shells? It seems I've seen it mentioned somewhere, but "oldtimers disease" has kicked in and now I can't find the reference! Help? jh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAC_TEK 0 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Dog, The springs like the mags are new. They work great with anything but the steel case. Have you loaded an 8 rounder full with Barnaul shells ? It is one heavy mag. I'm sure some dry lube in the mag will fix the problem. I'm just surprised that the steel cased shells don't cycle well or fit more that the 3 rounds in the 10 rounders. Feed angle? Jimhickey, The steel cased shells are not ment to be reloadable. I have hear of people trying and using wax to cap it off, however I have seen no range reports. Is silence the answer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Thats weird. The Barnaul site says 70mm = 7cm And http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM876-3274-1968.html these 410 shells appear to be 2 3/4 inch 70mm same size length as on the barnaul factory site matched to 70mm for the 12 gauge In any case, its a good start. Ill be buying as many cases as I can afford. I thought it was weird too. Maybe he didn't mean to say 7.5cm, but I don't know what else 7.5 could mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-308 2 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I thought it was weird too. Maybe he didn't mean to say 7.5cm, but I don't know what else 7.5 could mean. 7.5K shells? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I thought it was weird too. Maybe he didn't mean to say 7.5cm, but I don't know what else 7.5 could mean. 7.5K shells? Quoting him "i have the 7.5 coming in a week" Perhaps their starting out with 7.5 birdshot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 (edited) I thought it was weird too. Maybe he didn't mean to say 7.5cm, but I don't know what else 7.5 could mean. 7.5K shells? Quoting him "i have the 7.5 coming in a week" Perhaps their starting out with 7.5 birdshot Well that would make more sense. Here's another tidbit of information: My FBMG package arrived today, and the sheet that comes with the 5-round mags says they will take "total cartridge length of 59...68 mm". So 70mm would be too long for these mags according to the specs. Edited March 3, 2007 by XD45 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 definitely guys, hes talking about shot size when he said 7.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvin42 2 Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 hope the get some 00 12ga in too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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