Soon 0 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Just ran across the SAIGA brand of firearms on another site and have become interested in the shotguns and rifles and looking to purchase several of the of the SAIGA 12 gages if a good firearm. Why are the advantages of the SAIGA 12 gage over the 20 gage and over other semi's? What magazines work best? Durability? Longevity? Thanks, Soon, as in the war is coming soon................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 As far as 12 or 20, I'd say simply personal pref. The Kalashnikov design is rock solid! and Saiga puts out the best firearms of that design. IMO Welcome aboard! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
73cj5 1 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 saiga 12, more power that than the 20:) and there are 10 rd usa made magazines...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nycGUNguy 61 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Get both, that way if the significant other or any kids want to get into it, the 20 is a good prelude to the 12 ga. Speaking from experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuAside 2 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 two ways to look at it: .410 easy to handle, good to learn, kids stuff 20 gauge, playing with the big boys 12 gauge kickass or alternatively: 12 gauge, you cant shoot for shit so you need a lot of buck 20 gauge, alrighty, narrowing it down! .410 your aim is solid, no longer need to spray and pray! (or with other words: whatever you prefer... everyone will have an opinion, but opinions are like assholes: everyone has got em & they all stink) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 The S20 takes a little more lovin' to make it as reliable. I'd suggest not messing with the barrel length--leave it around 20" or you'll get a headache. The biggest downside is that the ammo is more expensive. There aren't domestically made high-cap magazines, but you can get your hands on some 5rnders and franken-mag them together. The up side is that it's a much tamer beast. Carrying ammo is lighter and follow-up shots are quicker. The S12 is basically ready to go from the start, and it's ammo is cheaper. There's no extra work in franken-magging magazines together--just call AGP. And you get more shot, so you don't have to be as accurate. The kick is more manageable than any other 12ga I've shot, so it's not like the recoil is a problem. And the difference between carrying 75rnds of 20ga and 75rnds of 12 gage isn't that noticeable (1.5lbs). The S20 is a more delicate gun. Takes TLC and more money to keep happy, but it's gentle in return. The S12 is the epitome of testosterone. It just needs food and it will be happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) The saiga gas system is a good design, and the stick magazine allows much of the weight of the shells to be toward the back of the gun, with a tube magazine you have basically two barrels going out front. The barrel is lower due to the gas tube above, this aids in recoil absorption and helps the user to recover quickly for a follow up shot if needed. The saiga-12 is one of the more modern designs of auto loader and it is much cheaper than many of the older designs. I paid 399.00 for my saiga 12, you can buy a Remington 870 pump gun for that. I would go so far as to say that the saiga-12 (when converted to use AK stocks and pistol grip) is one of the most modern shotguns on the market and one of the few advancements made in hunting and sporting shotguns in the last 20 years. Edit: the only down side is the safety which I find to be a bit slow to turn off for hunting grouse. Edited April 2, 2007 by csspecs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) Haven't seen anyone mention the statistical fact that a S-20 has slightly better 'penetration' than the S-12. ... What more might I say? Naturally... I'm a S-20 owner. Edited April 2, 2007 by Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 12ga. ammom is cheaper, and there are many more types of ammo available. Anyone know where to find 20ga bird bombs? How about door breachers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) In an end of the world scenario... which are you more likely to find/trade for? boxes of 12 gauge or .410 ? .22 caliber /.223 / .308 / and 9mm ....vs.... 7mm / 10mm / .38 caliber and so forth. I think you can realize the more common rounds out there and its an investment to have some of those types in your inventory. Of course, much of this is geographic. You might be in a heavy 7.62x39 region. Etc etc. Nothing wrong with a 20 gauge or whatever.... but certainly something to consider when you look at replenishing supplies. Lastly, a simple litmus test. SHTF... OH SHIT.... You head to the safe/closet/whatever ....GRAB~!! ... which one would you choose? (of course for sake of example, rule out the "whatever I grabbed 1st will be enough" answers. We all know "something" is better than nothing). ~S Edited April 2, 2007 by whatmanual Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soon 0 Posted April 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Thanks to all for the info..... the Saiga 12 it will be........ next round of questiions best place to purchase??? looking for at least two. am in God's Country - Texas, but will order even from yankee land if necessary..... csspecs said got his for $399, wonder how long ago......... what barrel length is best??? not for bird shooting....... are barrels changeable???? easily or pitb....... what spare parts should you keep??? which mods are worth making??? folding stock and hand grip??? conversions required??? who makes the best kit??? Tromix looks like a good firearm, but pricey...... Soon...........as when the wife says you can expect some soon.............and if you believe that........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Just ran across the SAIGA brand of firearms on another site and have become interested in the shotguns and rifles and looking to purchase several of the of the SAIGA 12 gages if a good firearm. Why are the advantages of the SAIGA 12 gage over the 20 gage and over other semi's? What magazines work best? Durability? Longevity? Thanks, Soon, as in the war is coming soon................ i see no one mentioned the fact that ZOMBIES LAUGH AT THE SIGHT OF 20 GUAGE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Tromix looks like a good firearm, but pricey...... Go with Tromix...it'll save you the headache of having to do much work. It's worth every penny for the perfection received. i see no one mentioned the fact that ZOMBIES LAUGH AT THE SIGHT OF 20 GUAGE boo. Gary and I will show you what a 20ga can do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 (edited) Got mine last week at a gunshow in Florida. I have been playing around with other saigas for about three months. Edited April 3, 2007 by csspecs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 this one piece of evidence that shows the saiga12 rules. check this topic I wrote up a couple winters ago. I dont think you will find another shotgun that will do that.... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=3522&st=0 keep in mind the picture I posted of the spent shells is of some of the BETTER ones. a few shell, I think i went into it in the thread, actually broke apart while feeding or ejecting. my saiga12 handnt been cleaned for a long time prior, and had had many many shells down it at that point, and it literally would have laughed at me if it could have, after I tried to choke it to death on these shells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 There's also a chance that the S20 won't go DD if the S12 does. It's a slim chance, but I doubt anyone will manufacture a NLFD for the S20. I am residenced in a county that won't allow me to own DDs, so I'm boned if the unthinkable were to happen. My only saving grace is that I might get to keep my S20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KyleWeiss 0 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 i see no one mentioned the fact that ZOMBIES LAUGH AT THE SIGHT OF 20 GUAGE Heh. KW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 best place to purchase??? looking for at least two.am in God's Country - Texas, but will order even from yankee land if necessary..... csspecs said got his for $399, wonder how long ago......... I'd order from yankee land if I were you, "God's country" is the most overpriced place I've ever found to buy guns. But, in Temple, TX about 3 weeks ago I saw a S-12 19" w/choke (the desireable one) for $499. I didn't feel like getting raped that day so I passed. I bought mine in Killeen in a LGS 2 years ago for $360 (22" IC choke). I think they're currently $399 at that particular shop. Find a shotgun news and a cheap FFL if you want a good deal. And welcome to the forum, whatever you get, you'll love it. jmho Shane Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gatorgunner 0 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 (edited) best place to purchase??? looking for at least two.am in God's Country - Texas, but will order even from yankee land if necessary..... csspecs said got his for $399, wonder how long ago......... I'd order from yankee land if I were you, "God's country" is the most overpriced place I've ever found to buy guns. But, in Temple, TX about 3 weeks ago I saw a S-12 19" w/choke (the desireable one) for $499. I didn't feel like getting raped that day so I passed. I bought mine in Killeen in a LGS 2 years ago for $360 (22" IC choke). I think they're currently $399 at that particular shop. Find a shotgun news and a cheap FFL if you want a good deal. And welcome to the forum, whatever you get, you'll love it. jmho Shane I saw the same model one (S-12 19" w/choke) recently for $489 in central Florida. The guy didn't know much about Saigas, except that they have a "cult following" and are rare right now. Edited April 4, 2007 by GatorGunner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 The guy didn't know much about Saigas, except that they have a "cult following" and are rare right now. Thats a understatement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jcfreak9901 0 Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 it's the same up here. I saw the saiga in my local 4 years ago and wanted one ever since. They've been around for a while and still haven't caught on much. I started reading here a month ago and finally got mine two weeks ago. When I went in to purchase I knew more than the dealer did about saiga. Still pretty unknown up here, and $478 with tax. Welcome to the best forum on the face of the Earth fellow newb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 they have a "cult following" we're a cult? well i guess that church thread in the funny section now makes sense Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Yes... started by "He who must not be named". ~S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soon 0 Posted April 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 the soccer mom said "why would anyone need a gun?". I don't think she knew that I heard her but I replied "Because beating people to death is alot of work" ~ Jmateer there are some wise, but sick people on saiga 12......................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quest84 22 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 am in God's Country - Texas Where at in Texas? If you're able to hit any of the houston fun shows I've seen a few 19er's going for about $400. I got a commercially converted for $700 last show. via MGS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soon 0 Posted April 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 am in God's Country - Texas Where at in Texas? If you're able to hit any of the houston fun shows I've seen a few 19er's going for about $400. I got a commercially converted for $700 last show. via MGS Thanks quest84..... in dallas.......... will be going to the next local gun show............. what is MGS Soon...............like the wife said come to bed soon and she would have a surprise........yeah none again........what a surprise............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 different types and models of guns are priced differently across the USA at any given time. FYI. Ive seen, as an example, someone offer 600$ for a 1500$ winchester levergun in the southwestern USA, that would have gotten a 70% of 1500$ offer if they were in somewhere like new york, the same WEEK. it has to do with how long it sits on thier shelf, really. that is a little bit different of a market compared to something like the saiga-12, but its the same thing, for the most part. NOW, about the GODS COUNTRY comment. let me tell you something about the gods country in new york where I live. and I do mean live........well just look at the picture, instead........sorry for the sloppy two second picture edit and the misspelling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 What? No Zombie plinking meadow? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 you see it in both the picture and my avatar. its there, trust me. just gotta know what yer lookin at, there, bubby. frosty the snowman comes around and get his ass shot every year, and I cut firewood with an ak47. the zombies know better. and if any come out of hiding, thats the "bronx boys' " problem, not mine. almost all of the land in that picture will be or is, for sale this year, sadly, and will be bought by the "cidiots". it wont be flattened, but many houses are about to spring up in the immediate area. where we live here is like a state park. its gonna be painful to watch, and Im going to find myself a new "home" when it happens.....where I can get class 2 and 3 tax stamps...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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