Mephis 82 Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, The only reason the USAS is a DD is because it only has 10+rnd mags, and it has a PG, does this mean itll be declaired leagal to own after the ban drops? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Noob 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I don't think there is a whole heck of alot of precedence for ANYTHING coming off NFA...especially after it has become a Destructive Device and they have raped people for the $200 transfer tax or made those register theirs and forego the stamp. Once a DD always a DD...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 NO, the USAS-12 was declared a Destructive Device by the Treasury Dept in 1986... The USAS-12 is banned from importation. This has nothing to do with the AWBan... The Treasury banned the importation of these shotguns because of their lack if meeting the "sporting purposes" clause. Then they also regulated the ones that were already in the country by deeming them DD's and setting a date to have them all registered by... If you had a USAS-12 and did not register it with the ATF by the date they set, then you are now in possesion of a illegal weapon. The Saiga is imported into this country because it DOES meet the "sporting purposes" clause. Once we change the proper number of the foreign "imported" parts into US compliant parts then the Saiga is considered a "domestic" shotgun and not regulated by the silly "sporting purposes" clause. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Close LB but not entirely correct. The "sporting purposes" clause of the 1968 Gun Control Act says that the definition of a "destructive device" includes any gun with > .50 caliber that does not have "sporting porpses." Since "sporting purposes" is not defined in the statute, the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate (The ATF naturally) can arbitrarily determine that 50 caliber guns and 20 gauge or bigger shotguns of their choice are "not sporting" and therefore "destructive devices," subject to registration. Current 50 caliber rifles actually measure something like .498 from land to land and are thus not destructive devices, regardless of their utility for "sport." However, certain pistols were measured by the ATF from groove to groove and found to be over .5 inches in caliber. Thus, they were declared destructive devices. I havent found independent confirmation of this last bit, but I've heard the story enough times to beleive it is true. Pretty much anytime there is an ugly/military looking shotgun produced, the ATF bans it. They ban it doubly quickly if it is clip fed and even faster if it has pistol grips and the like. I would not be surprised if this is the first thing the ATF does if kerry gets elected. On the other hand, there is legislation in the house that seeks to repeal the "sporting purposes" clause and the brady bill. It is currently in the House as Bill # H.R.153 where it started life in the Judiciary Committee, got passed to a Homeland Security Committee and is currently in an "Energy and Natural Resources" committee. I think this means the bill is sort of in zombie mode- not quite dead but obviously not going to pass anytime soon. Remember to badger your local representative to support the repeal of gun control legislation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 (edited) specifically tell me where I was not completely correct..... I am not trying to be defensive, just trying to learn as much as I can.... they make these laws difficult to understand just for these reasons... ( I think what you are saying is incorrect is what I said about the Saiga not being part of the "sporting purposes" clause once it becomes "domestic". Now that you mention it I was thinking the "sporting purposes" clause was put in with the 1989 "import" ban and only dealt with imported firearms ) Edited September 13, 2004 by USMC_LB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 maybe we should hope noone ever makes 10 round mags for the s12? I smell something guys. how long do you have to declare and pay for your tax when you already have a weapon that is then deemed a DD? isnt it like ten days or something stupid? cash on the spot if you want to keep it? how does that all work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Where the heck did you get the 10 days thing from, Bvamp?? Can you link to the info that you read that gave you this impression? It woudnt matter if it was 10 round magazines or 10 round magazines.... There are only 8 round mags for the Saiga 12 10 rounders are for the .410 & 20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 when a weapon is newly termed a DD, how long do you have to turn it in before they come after you for it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 (edited) They don't come after you for it, you get to keep it, it is grandfathered in to the law, but you just can't buy any more of them and if you sell it, the buyer has to pay a $200 NFA stamp to buy it. I know because one of my friends has a Striker 12 Streetsweeper that is now a DD. Edited September 13, 2004 by hartzpad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 thats what i wanted to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Here you go, this spells it out. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-faqs.htm ~9th Question from the top: "Q. Does the expiration of the SAW ban affect firearms under the National Firearms Act? A: All provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA) relating to registration and transfer of machineguns, short barreled rifles, weapons made from rifles, short barreled shotguns, weapons made from shotguns, any other weapons as defined in 26 USC section 5845(e), silencers, and destructive devices still apply. However, it is now lawful to possess NFA firearms that are also semiautomatic assault weapons, as long as all provisions of the NFA are satisfied. USAS-12 and Striker12/Streetsweeper shotguns are still classified as destructive devices under ATF Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 and must be possessed and transferred in accordance with the NFA.(Bold added by me)" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Well here's a question... I thought the USAS-12 was domestic. Couldn't it be made again domestically and registered as a DD? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 USAS-12 was made in Korea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKATTACK 5 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I'll have to dig out the 3rd or 4th edition of Jack Lewis' book "Assault Weapons". He had an article on the USAS 12 in one of them and I believe at that time, the gun was made in Alabama, after it was declared a DD, the company was sold or moved offshore to Korea. I'm almost sure of this but I'll check it out. AKATTACK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
emclean 0 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 it dosent matter where it is made, it is bigger than .50 cal, and "unsutable for sporting" the weight and leangth are sighted as part of the reason, as well as the mag. cap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted September 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Ehh well, I just like how it looks. I guess the saiga is a better gun as long as you put a PG on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Theoretically, you could build a USAS-12 in the US by hand and register it. (assuming your CLEO signs your ATF Form, and the ATF approves). However, building something like that really wouldn't be worth the effort. I'm pretty much keeping my Saiga forever, DD or no. And if its declared a DD, then I can hack off the barrel to any feasible length w/o changing the legal nature of the weapon, I believe.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Control3 3 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 I'm pretty much keeping my Saiga forever, DD or no. And if its declared a DD, then I can hack off the barrel to any feasible length w/o changing the legal nature of the weapon, I believe.... Yes, the barrel length of the DD is not restricted. Ironically, it would almost be nice if I could voluntarily register my individual Saiga as a DD. Reason is, short-barrel shotguns are illegal in my state but DD's are not. I say *almost* nice because even if ATF would allow it, I would never risk that suggestion for fear that the DD classification would then apply to all PG-equipped Saigas. You guys would hunt me down and flay me alive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 i know i would Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 We are heavily armed, but NOT dangerous! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rowdy1124 0 Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 This is a bad group to piss off.... BTW guys... any ideas on how legal it is to assembel a pistol from imported parts??? i have seen a couple of places offering "parts kits" for a potentially full auto pistol i want (rhymes with suzy).... they are currently illegal to import, but from what i understand the parts arent... just a quick question... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Unless you are a Class 2 manufacturer or a Class 3 dealer it would be illegal for you to build or own that full auto pistol you are talking about... It is legal for civilians in the US to own machineguns. But the MGs that a civilian can own have to have been registered with the ATF On or before 1986.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rowdy1124 0 Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 ah, so if my grandpa had brought his BAR from Germany, then he'd have been legal? but my israeli buddy cant send me a gift.... damn... worth a shot i guess... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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