mavrick16o 6 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 i am looking to get a varmint riffle on an ar15 platform with a heavy barrel in 7.62, have been concidering either dpms or rock river arms. any one have any encounters with them or other ar15 varmint gun manufactures good or bad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 A buddy of mine had DPMS make him a 16" .308 Carbine and the thing is too painful to be enjoyable. One shot, one bruise. Kinda like the Texas Rangers of carbines. I had a .308 carbine years ago and tried to tell him, but no it was his dream. It is a great bragging rights gun, just not a lot of fun. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 Below I have listed standard specifications for both AR's I own. I love them both and they each serve different roles and I'm well versed in each as a Combat Marksmanship Coach within the United States Marine Corps. You should understand for all intents and purposes the M4 will do the job as long as your not trying to reach out and touch varmits at 500+ yards. The M4 will hold its own on a man size target out to that and probably a little further. My Bull will hold a 1/2" or less and sometimes touching 3 round group at 100 yards with a 55gr round. My Rock River M4 spec's: STANDARD CONFIGURATION CALIBER .223/5.56mm NATO Chamber UPPER RECEIVER Forged A4 CARRY HANDLE Detachable Tactical Carry Handle BARREL 16" Chrome Moly, 1:9 Twist MUZZLE DEVICE A2 Flash Hider / 1/2-28 Thread TRIGGER Two Stage Match SAFETY SELECTOR Star PISTOL GRIP Hogue Rubber HANDGUARD R-4 Handguard BUTTSTOCK 6-Position Tactical CAR Stock WEIGHT 7.5 Pounds LENGTH 36 Inches ACCURACY 1 MOA at 100 Yards INCLUDED One Mag, Safe Case, Manual, Warranty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ My DPMS Panther Bull spec's: Barrel: 20" Length, 416 Stainless steel bull barrel, 6 grooves, right-hand 1x9 twist, button rifled Chamber: .223 Remington Method of Operation: Gas operated rotating bolt Bolt & Carrier: 8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec, Phosphated steel bolt, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec Sights: Famous Maker 4-12x power Weight: Empty - 9.15 lbs. Length: 38 1/4 " Upper Receiver: A3 style flattop, Forged, 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy, Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black Dust cover, Shell deflector, Round forward assist, Right hand ejection Lower Receiver: Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy, Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black, Semi-Auto trigger group, Aluminum trigger guard, Aluminum magazine release button Stock: Standard A2 Black Zytel Mil Spec w/trap door assembly Handguards: Aluminum ribbed free float tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavrick16o 6 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 ive heard of aluminum AR uppers breaking after going through few hundred rounds, or a proofing round? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 ive heard of aluminum AR uppers breaking after going through few hundred rounds, or a proofing round? Are you serious? I have never heard of this unless a reload was WAY TOO hot. There are quite a few new comers to the scene and even though I personally wouldn't buy a off brand I'm sure if its made to MIL SPEC it should be more then reliable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 ive heard of aluminum AR uppers breaking after going through few hundred rounds, or a proofing round? don't believe it.. The AR platform has been around for 40+ years and has many more years to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RMTactical 0 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 They both have decent reputations. RRA is a little better, but their .308 isn't out yet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 i am looking to get a varmint riffle on an ar15 platform with a heavy barrel in 7.62, have been concidering either dpms or rock river arms. any one have any encounters with them or other ar15 varmint gun manufactures good or bad Be aware though that 7.62 AR mags are not too plentiful from what I hear . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 They both have decent reputations. RRA is a little better, but their .308 isn't out yet... Hello Called them a couple of weeks ago (tapping watch and looking at calender.....) and they said they were re-re-engineering their lowers. I've been waiting a couple of years, now. I have to hope that it will be worth the wait. From all reports, the delay is due to a "perfectionist" attitude from RRA. They would rather wait and offer a bug-free product, than rush a POS into people's hands and sully-up the reputation they have established at Rock River. Gotta respect that. Just hope they can beat Hitlery/Osama into office! Respectfully posted, guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I like Olympic Arms, oa2.org Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Have a DPMS here, does well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 7.62x39mm, or 7.62x51mm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roadblock1983 0 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 RRA 308 will be a good rifle. Im on the waiting list for one. As for the magazine issue RRA 308 uses bot FN FAL metric and standard magazines wich you can get plentaful abundance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 .308 varmint gun??!! How you gonna know you hit him? Look for a big wet spot??!! Interesting about the recoil 1911, I wouldn't have guessed it. My S-308 kicks less than my AK! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 I like Olympic Arms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 I had problems with the Wilson tactical uppers years ago and RRA uses them on their rifles. This is not the same as the quality Wilson that makes AR's shot gun and 1911's. I have not heard of RRA have the accuracy issues I experienced in the past but I still have a bad taste when it comes to Wilson Tactical. I have owned and built several DPMS AR's and for the money (especially when I could get the lower receivers for $100.00) you cuold not get a better rifle. DPMS is good quality. Colt is too expensive!!! They are proud of their stuff. Olympic Arms builds a good rifle. The lower receivers just have that ugly label etched in making them look in my opinion cheap. I know several guys that have them and love them. By the way Topmaul I know a distributor for these and can get them really cheap as compared to the others. (again, good rifles with ugly receivers). I dont beleive that about the receiver breaking unless they were poorly made by some off the wall manufacturer. The job of the upper and lower receiver is just to hold the parts together and keep them from falling out. The barrel, bolt and carrier handle all of the preasure which is then transferred to the buffer and spring. Just figure out what configuration you want and get a good name brand and you will be fine. I prefer to buy a striped lower receiver from a local shop. I then go to places like Del-Ton and get the rifle kit set up the way I want and then put the rifle together myself. The uppers come complete and head spaced. The lower is not hard to assemble and there is a site that will even show you step by step how to do the assembly without all of the specialized tools. I can find that site and give it to you later if you want it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 .308 varmint gun??!! That's what I was thinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 I might buy the Saiga in .223 but I'll never buy anything on the AR design unless I have the money to burn. Sorry, just my personal experience after putting that platform through its paces in Iraq. I know this isn't Iraq and I know I have the luxury of maintaining that weapon in pristine condition if I wanted but no thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quinci956 1 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) I might buy the Saiga in .223 but I'll never buy anything on the AR design unless I have the money to burn. Sorry, just my personal experience after putting that platform through its paces in Iraq. I know this isn't Iraq and I know I have the luxury of maintaining that weapon in pristine condition if I wanted but no thanks. Gunny, what do you think about the gas trap carbine (gas piston) uppers for the AR's? I know several companies are making them now. I was told by a sometimes reliable source that Colt was even coming out with one and calling it the M-5. Anyone else have anything good or bad to say about these. I was looking at getting the H&K 416 upper for my Department A-1.(A-1 that has been converted to a 10 inch Comando) This is full auto and I am wondering if it functions well and reliably in both semi and full auto. Edited November 15, 2007 by madmilo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Gunny, what do you think about the gas trap carbine (gas piston) uppers for the AR's? I know several companies are making them now. I was told by a sometimes reliable source that Colt was even coming out with one and calling it the M-5.Anyone else have anything good or bad to say about these. I was looking at getting the H&K 416 upper for my Department A-1.(A-1 that has been converted to a 10 inch Comando) This is full auto and I am wondering if it functions well and reliably in both semi and full auto. The HK416 I'd buy in a heartbeat. Colt and HK had a pissing contest about the research HK was doing on the M4 and the name they had for the prototype 416 (HKM4). Colt is supposedly coming out with their own design but I have not heard or seen anything along that front. I think they are the only two coming out with something like this but I could be wrong...I'm no longer in touch with some of the guys that do the cool weapons testing for the Marine Corps down in Quantico. The other thing that may offset the initial cost for your department is the projected length of service life for your weapon. They expect components to last longer because the gases are cooler using the HK416 upper and there is much less fouling. So if you can get one for your department I don't think it would be a bad investment. BUT...to date I don't think they are offering anything like the 416 in a semi-auto version. However you do bring up a good alternative and I might save my pennies for it until then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavrick16o 6 Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 what shell does the 308 varmints come in for the diffrent companies? 7.62x39 or x51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Milo, We think a lot alike I just orderd a custom AR lower I do believe that that is going to be the next fad in ARs Custom Lowers, my new one has markings for three positions SAFE-FIRE-SHTF a Gator textured front of the mag well, a cool logo and best of all Greek lettering quoting King Leonitus translation Come and Take Them! I am also looking at Del-Ton for my parts. I said it would be the next fad in ARs because there was a Super Genious at the gun store when I was getting my FFL stuff delt with who was ordering one from a big name company that out sources there lowers and sneared at mine? I make it a point not to debat in gun shops. What ever Dude Edited November 16, 2007 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 ive heard of aluminum AR uppers breaking after going through few hundred rounds, or a proofing round? Are you serious? I have never heard of this unless a reload was WAY TOO hot. There are quite a few new comers to the scene and even though I personally wouldn't buy a off brand I'm sure if its made to MIL SPEC it should be more then reliable. I have heard of this. In EVERY instance it was a Hess/vulcan/blackthorn upper. The MD AR15 site had some actual reviews and pictures a few years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 I might buy the Saiga in .223 but I'll never buy anything on the AR design unless I have the money to burn. Sorry, just my personal experience after putting that platform through its paces in Iraq. I know this isn't Iraq and I know I have the luxury of maintaining that weapon in pristine condition if I wanted but no thanks. The number one neglected item for cleaning and/or replacement in regular maintenance is the gas tube. The 90-degree angle at the gas block can accumulate lots of carbon and sand, but it is rare. I don't know how often mil armorers replace the gas tube, but I heard it is rare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 I might buy the Saiga in .223 but I'll never buy anything on the AR design unless I have the money to burn. Sorry, just my personal experience after putting that platform through its paces in Iraq. I know this isn't Iraq and I know I have the luxury of maintaining that weapon in pristine condition if I wanted but no thanks. Gunny, what do you think about the gas trap carbine (gas piston) uppers for the AR's? I know several companies are making them now. I was told by a sometimes reliable source that Colt was even coming out with one and calling it the M-5. Anyone else have anything good or bad to say about these. I was looking at getting the H&K 416 upper for my Department A-1.(A-1 that has been converted to a 10 inch Comando) This is full auto and I am wondering if it functions well and reliably in both semi and full auto. I haven't heard any complaints about any of them, not real complaints anyway. Just purist saying that they are unnecessary and less accurate. Both arguments are BS. The HK416 is considered the best, but only because it is HK. It is in a limited amount of civie hands, but LWRC and POF have sold thousands with no problems. Ares Defense has the GSR-35 retrofit to convert any carbine-length system, and PWS is coming out with one this december. There are also less popular ones like ZM Weapons, Olympic has one, and Kurt's Kustom. They all work reliably in Full-Auto, as most were developed for that to keep the bolt cool, and increase reliability in short-barreled ARs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Milo, We think a lot alike I just orderd a custom AR lower I do believe that that is going to be the next fad in ARs Custom Lowers, my new one has markings for three positions SAFE-FIRE-SHTF a Gator textured front of the mag well, a cool logo and best of all Greek lettering quoting King Leonitus translation Come and Take Them! I am also looking at Del-Ton for my parts. I said it would be the next fad in ARs because there was a Super Genious at the gun store when I was getting my FFL stuff delt with who was ordering one from a big name company that out sources there lowers and sneared at mine? I make it a point not to debat in gun shops. What ever Dude Sounds like a Mega Machine Shop lower. I have build 2 ARs with Mega Machine Gator lowers. Hers my latest 18 inch: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7039 I am in on this buy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7039 I am in on this buy Maybe you should try your luck with a springfield M1A very nice and reliable rifle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavrick16o 6 Posted November 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) well its all over, i got the dpms .308 varmint with the heavy barrel. no kick, very smooth, i like it alot so far, now if i can just get my scope tuned Edited November 20, 2007 by mavrick16o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cryptkeeper 0 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 well its all over, i got the dpms .308 varmint with the heavy barrel. no kick, very smooth, i like it alot so far, now if i can just get my scope tuned kewl what specs did you get on the weapon,did you get the barrel cryo-frozen ...ect. PLZ give us a range report on your grpings I would love to hear what kind of grps you get out like 300++ yrds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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