Saiga .410 uses

[Hollywoodb6 0]

I'm was considering a Saiga rifle after having fired alot of rounds through a friends. I came across this forum and now I want one of each model Saiga. I'm new to shotguns and I was wondering what you used your .410's for besides plinking and for fun? What ammo do you use for it? Is the .410 sug just a big rifle bullet? What is the effective range of slugs and shot?

Thanks in advance for your answers. All of your Saiga's look awesome. I look forward to the converting just as much as the shooting.

[Bvamp 604]

join the club, hollywood.

 

im not a 410 guy, but I can tell you that you might want to put the s12 on the top or near the top of your list of "guns to buy".

[Twinsen 86]

The .410 slug is just like a tiny rifle bullet, actually. It doesn't have much power, and isn't considered humane for hunting out past 60 yards. A lot of guys will tell you that's ok though, they hunt at that range anyway.

 

I use my Saiga .410 to take up space in my safe, as the 4 round mags make it useless for competition shooting.

[drooling idiot 1]

useful for rabbit in thick brush.

A 12GA wouldn't leave enough rabbit to clean.

[turbo1889 1]

A Saiga-410 has a lot of uses:

 

~ Target, in this application one should be aware that the 410 bore is considered an experts gun when it comes to clay birds. Handles very well though compared to other 410 guns which are like trying to swing a toothpic around in leading the shot. The S-410 has a little more substance to it yet still offers advantage by being lighter then a lot of 12ga. guns.

 

~ Hunting, Largest game it is capable of taking at conventional shotgun shooting distances is about 100 pounds of deer or hog with the appropriate slug or buckshot load. Smallest game you can take without wrecking the meat is doves. If you choose your load carefully you can take just about any small animal without wrecking the meat. This is a very big difference between the S-410 and the larger guage shot guns (S-20 & S-12).

 

~ Defense, loaded with buck-shot in addition to it's rapid fire capabilities and minimal recoil the S-410 can hold its own in close quarters situations. As much or more power then just about any hangun and much easier to hit your target. Mag. capacitiy can be an issue however, at least until someone gets their drum mag on the market.

[dinzag 31]

The 410 slug weights are comparable to .380 ACP - about 95 grains.

 

I like the 3" breneke sabots, but I use a rifled paradox choke for those.

There's also the silver bear 2 3/4" sabots.

 

If you don't use a paradox choke, get rifled slugs.

 

For small game hunting I use 3" plastic exclusively - #4 shot.

 

I stay away from the 2 1/2". Cycling is hit or miss with mine.

 

I've used it for skeet too - it's good practice and a hell of a challenge.

 

[G O B 3,516]

Barnul advertises 95gr at 1400fps for their slugs. Even if the 1400fps is more brag than reality, it is still in 9mm+p+ range.

[Buck shott 0]

I don't own a Saiga .410 but I have owned a single shot .410 bore shotgun and harvested a lot of game with it. I cannot remember how many partridge, woodcock and rabbits I shot with it and I shot my first deer with it as well. Which was a 100 lb. Doe deer and the shot was taken from 50 yards away. The deer went down like a ton of bricks and never got up. My father in law has taken 3 deer with his .410 from 25-50 yards away or so and 75 yards seems to be the maximum range for decent accuracy. Though attaching a pistol scope on his shotgun increased accuracy potential significantly.

 

The .410 does have a few problems though and one of the most critical issues is matching the correct load for your gun. Foster slugs for example very greatly diameter, as some are made to be fired from cylinder bore gun and others from modified or full choke guns so they are smaller diameter. However most .410 shotgun are full choke because its assumed they are going to be used mainly with shot.

 

I have shot brenneke slugs from my father in laws .410 with poor results they almost alway key holed and accuracy was poor but this was a full choke gun and smooth bore so I think it is a case of the load not matching the particular gun. With 2 1/2 Remington slugs we where able to shoot 2-3 inch groups at 25-50 yards.

 

As for shot I used 3" federal and I have always tried to use it more as if it was a rifle. Even when wing shooting I lead the birds very little, to not at all as the shot concentration is thin and spreads out fast. To be successful afield with a .410 you learn to be an accurate and fast shot. Incidentally when I moved up to shooting 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns I was surprised how much longer you could wait to shoot, and still hit your target. Shooting the .410 almost exclusively from age 10 -14 hunting afield made me a good shot on the skeet range. Initially I used my .410 but only had about 50% success Then I moved up to a 20 gauge and hit single easily. Carry the .410 hunting really increased my speed, learning to shoot as fast as I did made me able to shoot doubles with larger gauges shotguns fairly easily and I am able to shoot a triples with a pump action 12 gauge most of the time.

 

As far as its terminal effect I have never had a problem with that. It has killed all the game I have shot with it cleanly and quickly. Patterning your shotgun for hunting is important as I discovered my .410 had a denser patter close to the top shot pattern so I if shooting a target on the ground I aimed at the feet of the creature I wanted to shoot especially with partridge as they stand rather tall for a bird somewhat like a chicken. Most rank the slugs somewhere in the range of a 357 magnum fired from a pistol. I am not sure of that exactly but shooting the .410reminds me of shooting older straight walled black powder cartridges like the 38-40 and 44-40.

 

I have never tried a buckshot load mainly because 3 pellets isn't very adequate unless its fired from a handgun of some type but if you hand load you can make 6 ball load for 3 inch shells which isn't to bad.

 

While this insn't strickly about .410 saiga's I have always wanted to take a saiga 410 and rebarrel it 45-70 I think that would an awesome woods gun.

 

Buck Shott

[lenf 5]

I've been shooting my Saiga 410 for a few years now and have been happy with it. I bought it as a fun gun, being cheap enough buy at $250 and to shoot as much as I wanted. Ammo prices have gone way up in the last four years and for some reason 16 gauge shells are now about half to three quarters the price of 410's so I've been using that gun more lately. I got a bunch of 10 rd. mags and they add to the fun. After using it a while I figured it would make a great home defense gun too. Winchester, Remington and Sellier&Bellot offer 3" 00 buckshot. This gives you 5 pellets. I'm happy with the accuracy of the slugs. The only complaint being a couple of boxes of Rottweil slugs that were so feeble they wouldn't even cycle the gun. Don't bother with shot any smaller than #4 unless you're with 25 feet of your target. At 50' #4 shot gives you a pattern about 30" across and you can lay your hand on the target and cover two or three pellets. For squirrels, shoot twice. The buckshot is spread in an oval about 3 1/2" across at 50'. The gun is a little clunky for a shotgun and doesn't have the easy swing and targeting of a single shot or pump, but you get used to it. Buy one, try it out. If you don't like it you won't have any trouble selling it.

[Superhawk138 202]

I've been shooting my Saiga 410 for a few years now and have been happy with it. I bought it as a fun gun, being cheap enough buy at $250 and to shoot as much as I wanted. Ammo prices have gone way up in the last four years and for some reason 16 gauge shells are now about half to three quarters the price of 410's so I've been using that gun more lately. I got a bunch of 10 rd. mags and they add to the fun. After using it a while I figured it would make a great home defense gun too. Winchester, Remington and Sellier&Bellot offer 3" 00 buckshot. This gives you 5 pellets. I'm happy with the accuracy of the slugs. The only complaint being a couple of boxes of Rottweil slugs that were so feeble they wouldn't even cycle the gun. Don't bother with shot any smaller than #4 unless you're with 25 feet of your target. At 50' #4 shot gives you a pattern about 30" across and you can lay your hand on the target and cover two or three pellets. For squirrels, shoot twice. The buckshot is spread in an oval about 3 1/2" across at 50'. The gun is a little clunky for a shotgun and doesn't have the easy swing and targeting of a single shot or pump, but you get used to it. Buy one, try it out. If you don't like it you won't have any trouble selling it.

Any chance of parting with 1 10round mag?

[lenf 5]

I've been shooting my Saiga 410 for a few years now and have been happy with it. I bought it as a fun gun, being cheap enough buy at $250 and to shoot as much as I wanted. Ammo prices have gone way up in the last four years and for some reason 16 gauge shells are now about half to three quarters the price of 410's so I've been using that gun more lately. I got a bunch of 10 rd. mags and they add to the fun. After using it a while I figured it would make a great home defense gun too. Winchester, Remington and Sellier&Bellot offer 3" 00 buckshot. This gives you 5 pellets. I'm happy with the accuracy of the slugs. The only complaint being a couple of boxes of Rottweil slugs that were so feeble they wouldn't even cycle the gun. Don't bother with shot any smaller than #4 unless you're with 25 feet of your target. At 50' #4 shot gives you a pattern about 30" across and you can lay your hand on the target and cover two or three pellets. For squirrels, shoot twice. The buckshot is spread in an oval about 3 1/2" across at 50'. The gun is a little clunky for a shotgun and doesn't have the easy swing and targeting of a single shot or pump, but you get used to it. Buy one, try it out. If you don't like it you won't have any trouble selling it.

Any chance of parting with 1 10round mag?

Mmm.. best not, you never know what's coming. The rumors around here are that rusmilitary will have more in January, and that's where I got mine, $60 each as I recall. And when MD Arms releases their 15 (?) rd mag and/or drum mag, I'm buying at least two of each. Before I learned of MD Arms I was planning to make molds for casting the magazine head and follower in a filled epoxy. I hadn't worked out the details for the body, but have had some experience in forming springs so I figured it was a matter of time before I had a working model. A lot of work to go through and of course life keeps barging in, but it illustrates the real need for these magazines. If rusmil or MD fail us, I may consider producing them myself. There's a need for 2 1/2" mags as well. I know there are 4 rd ones available and maybe that's enough given that the loads are small to start with at 3". Maybe if we all got together and yelled real loud.

[Superhawk138 202]

I've been shooting my Saiga 410 for a few years now and have been happy with it. I bought it as a fun gun, being cheap enough buy at $250 and to shoot as much as I wanted. Ammo prices have gone way up in the last four years and for some reason 16 gauge shells are now about half to three quarters the price of 410's so I've been using that gun more lately. I got a bunch of 10 rd. mags and they add to the fun. After using it a while I figured it would make a great home defense gun too. Winchester, Remington and Sellier&Bellot offer 3" 00 buckshot. This gives you 5 pellets. I'm happy with the accuracy of the slugs. The only complaint being a couple of boxes of Rottweil slugs that were so feeble they wouldn't even cycle the gun. Don't bother with shot any smaller than #4 unless you're with 25 feet of your target. At 50' #4 shot gives you a pattern about 30" across and you can lay your hand on the target and cover two or three pellets. For squirrels, shoot twice. The buckshot is spread in an oval about 3 1/2" across at 50'. The gun is a little clunky for a shotgun and doesn't have the easy swing and targeting of a single shot or pump, but you get used to it. Buy one, try it out. If you don't like it you won't have any trouble selling it.

Any chance of parting with 1 10round mag?

Mmm.. best not, you never know what's coming. The rumors around here are that rusmilitary will have more in January, and that's where I got mine, $60 each as I recall. And when MD Arms releases their 15 (?) rd mag and/or drum mag, I'm buying at least two of each. Before I learned of MD Arms I was planning to make molds for casting the magazine head and follower in a filled epoxy. I hadn't worked out the details for the body, but have had some experience in forming springs so I figured it was a matter of time before I had a working model. A lot of work to go through and of course life keeps barging in, but it illustrates the real need for these magazines. If rusmil or MD fail us, I may consider producing them myself. There's a need for 2 1/2" mags as well. I know there are 4 rd ones available and maybe that's enough given that the loads are small to start with at 3". Maybe if we all got together and yelled real loud.

 

Hey no problem at all. thanks for replying back. i'm going to try Rusmilitary i saw where they said mid Jan. I wouldn't let them go either.

[Zoub 0]

I bought my .410 back in 99 or 2000 strictly because it was .410 and under $200 and to get a rise out of my hunting buddies when I showed up to shoot over their beagles with an AK. The reaction was great but the damn gun really surprised me how well it handled.

 

It will NEVER replace my Winchester Model 42, but it is not bad, just not a great wingshooter. If you are walking and hunting, considering the game you are likely to see the .410 will do it's job if you do yours.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Zoub

[tomovich 0]

I have slugs (Silver Bear I think) that I shoot in mine but for a home/self defense role it's 3" OO BUCK.

[Conklin 0]

Im not a saiga .410 guy...yet, but i am planning on getting both a saiga 12 and a saiga .410 soon. Im from the .308 winchester camp...and am waiting for a x54R saiga though its not too likely we will see it in the states.

 

Anyway back to the point....For years the only firearm i ever fired and maintained was an old stevens .410 break action that has been handed from my grandfather, to my father, to me. This old gun has some stories....i have taken COUNTLESS skeets, partridges, rabbits.... In the right hands it is deadly accurate. The little .410 is just so easy to bring to shoulder, site in on the targer, and take the only shot your going to need.

 

 

Alot of guys find .410 useless, but those are the same guys who enjoy wasting high dollar ammo for an hour when i get to plink all day with a few scatterguns and my trusty 10/22. Its a great "stater" shotgun, and is exceptionally useful and accurate in the right hands. As was said by another poster.... it simply leaves more meat. Real important if your hungry and broke, or worse.

[tomovich 0]

Last time I was in Russia I got to play with this at the local gunstore. This weapon (the .410 Saiga) is used a lot by private security forces as it's easier to acquire legally.

 

[G O B 3,516]

Tomovich-- I want the guns in the case behind him!

[Joe Blasco 1]

Yes correct, it's the commie laws regarding a rifled and an unrifled barrel. By the way what you hold in your hands caiga 410K it's the standard saiga offered for sale in these parts of the world.

The other is model Caiga 410-version 2. Both are not imported to US . Interestingly I never saw the long barrels models of saiga 410 in a gun shop, I think they are mostly for export, if somebody is interested for long range hunting in Russia would probably pick the Tigr rifle or a Mossin Nagant not a saiga 410. Do you remember any prices and which town were you exactly?

Joe

 

 

Last time I was in Russia I got to play with this at the local gunstore. This weapon (the .410 Saiga) is used a lot by private security forces as it's easier to acquire legally.

 

[tomovich 0]

Last time I was in Russia I got to play with this at the local gunstore. This weapon (the .410 Saiga) is used a lot

 

There were a few cool toys there (like the .410K and those VEPR's). The funny thing is there were also a lot of SKS's with the bayonets removed!

Edited December 30, 2007 by tomovich

[tomovich 0]

Yes correct, it's the commie laws regarding a rifled and an unrifled barrel. By the way what you hold in your hands caiga 410K it's the standard saiga offered for sale in these parts of the world.

The other is model Caiga 410-version 2. Both are not imported to US . Interestingly I never saw the long barrels models of saiga 410 in a gun shop, I think they are mostly for export, if somebody is interested for long range hunting in Russia would probably pick the Tigr rifle or a Mossin Nagant not a saiga 410. Do you remember any prices and which town were you exactly?

Joe

 

That's not me..........that's the proprietor, Vladimir. I don't have a gap in my teeth like that............

 

I'm very familiar with the gun laws over there. I even have a book (pamphlet) of Russian gun laws. I went to several gunstores there and in St. Petersburg. I went shooting at a target range there with .22 Biathlon rifles. The city was Veliki Novgorod (Novgorod the Great), between St. Petersburg and Moscow. It's my wife's home town. I've been there a couple of times, got baptized there, got VERY drunk there, you know..........the usual.

[Joe Blasco 1]

Usually what I see are Saiga shotguns, 410 and 12, Vepr's, imported Benellie's and from rifles IZ, Mossin Nagant's, Tigr's, sks and Steyer AUGs! I asked you about the prices and town because

I have noted that prices according to town and region can be double and triple! I rarely go these years in Moskva anymore and was wonedering for prices there. Best price's I ever found retail

were in Izvesk, wonder why he- he, but it's a long train ride...

Joe

 

 

Last time I was in Russia I got to play with this at the local gunstore. This weapon (the .410 Saiga) is used a lot

 

There were a few cool toys there (like the .410K and those VEPR's). The funny thing is there were also a lot of SKS's with the bayonets removed!

[turbo1889 1]

Since this thread seems to have been taken over by a couple of individuals with intimate knowledge about Russian gun laws I quess I'll pop the question out. How difficult/expensive would it be for an American to get a hunting tag, trip, and local guide for example lets say tundra deer in Siberia ??? I'm a meat hunter mainly so we are talking basically any large edible game animal would be just fine -- tundra deer is what first came to mind. Could I bring one of my own guns or would I have to buy/rent one up there?

[tomovich 0]

Since this thread seems to have been taken over by a couple of individuals with intimate knowledge about Russian gun laws I quess I'll pop the question out. How difficult/expensive would it be for an American to get a hunting tag, trip, and local guide for example lets say tundra deer in Siberia ??? I'm a meat hunter mainly so we are talking basically any large edible game animal would be just fine -- tundra deer is what first came to mind. Could I bring one of my own guns or would I have to buy/rent one up there?

 

Didn't mean to take over anything. I thought I was commenting on the uses of the .410 Saiga.

 

As to a hunting trip. I'm sure it's possible. All things are possible with $$$$$.

 

I would think the ONLY WAY you could do it however would be to get hooked up with a hunting "tour" or safari type deal. You still need to have a Russian VISA to go to Russia and if you don't have family there you need to do it via Tourist Agency, etc.

 

Udachi.

[Joe Blasco 1]

Ok i hope moderator won't jaga - jaga me for the off topic...

Yes hunting is very interesting one can shoot deer, wild boar etc.

Note that I am not a hunter but these are the basics:

Being a foreigner you can do it two ways:

a. the hard way is to try to get your gun in the country, sign several forms, go back and forth and in the end you will be still viable to any blackmail by anybody in a uniform once inside the country.

I wouldn't suggest that...

 

b. the other way is to have a local friend . Even if he doesn't own a gun he will have a friend who does preferrably from dierevnia. There with the cost of some bottles of vodka (or gorilka he-he) you will shoot whatever you wish plus you may meet some interesting devuski also. Hunting season is from August to March if I remember correctly. but that depends on the locality also..

 

Udachi toze...

 

 

 

 

 

Since this thread seems to have been taken over by a couple of individuals with intimate knowledge about Russian gun laws I quess I'll pop the question out. How difficult/expensive would it be for an American to get a hunting tag, trip, and local guide for example lets say tundra deer in Siberia ??? I'm a meat hunter mainly so we are talking basically any large edible game animal would be just fine -- tundra deer is what first came to mind. Could I bring one of my own guns or would I have to buy/rent one up there?

[turbo1889 1]

Thanks for the info -- No accusations were intended as far as thread jacking. Just thought I'd take advantage of the presence of those who would be able to answer the question. I've always wanted to go hunting in Siberia and I figured it probably would be cheaper then going to any of the other usual foreign rich mans hunting play grounds. I ain't rich but I might be able to scrap together enough funds to make a middle class vacation afair out of the idea some day. Also much perfer cold weather to hot weather so Russian hunting is much more apatizing idea then god forsaken heat of some god forsaken savana or jungle. Forty below zero is no problem for me but anything above about ninety degrees (F) and I'm not so happy camper.

Edited December 31, 2007 by turbo1889