What to buy first?

[Elkhound 91]

About two weeks ago I convinced my better half that I should start a modest collection of weapons. (She's still not completely wild about the idea). So, as all married guys know, when the spouse gives permission, you've got to move quickly before they try to change their mind and claim they never said what they really said.

 

So, moving with haste, I started a small buying spree. Then, I discovered the Saiga brand. I did not even know that it existed a few weeks ago. As soon as I learned about russian rifles, I got on Tony's list for 2009. I'm planning on buying a rifle and a shotgun from him (list number 392 for 2009!). While I'm waiting, here is the plan for 2008. I'd appreciate your comments and suggestions for the 2008 plan:

 

1. I plan to buy a Krebs custom in mid to late January when they produce some additional rifles. From my initial research, they seem to have a pretty good reputation. The alternative would be the Red Strike (?) guys down in Louisiana.

 

2. The second 2008 purchase (likely the last as I don't think the budget or the wife will allow more than two rifles per year,) is one I need help with. What are your thoughts about a Molot VEPR 7.62x9 with the 20.5 inch barrel. I'm leaning toward it, but the alternatives are a Saiga .308. The VERP seems to be about $125.00 more, though it appears that the furniture and other work is supposed to be nicer. The new VEPRs seem to be disappearing, and the sellers are telling me that there may not be many more available. Gilberts guns is getting in some .308s but Jason Gilbert said the VEPR really is nicer and higher quality. I've not seen either one in person.

 

I admit, these rifles will likely be "safe queens" however, even though they may not get fired very often, I still want performance and value.

 

I look forward to learning more about these interesting russian rifles and joining you as an owner.

[jbremount 0]

I think the unconverted Saiga rifles are the best deals on AK's available to the public. Therefore, I would recommend buying the unconverted Saiga rifles.(linky) You can later convert the pistol grip/etc on the rifles and save quite a bit of money. It is not that hard to do with tools most have around the house and you still have a very good rifle. There is plenty of info on converting the Saiga rifles on this web site. I think the Saiga rifles shoots as good or better than most AK rifles. I prefer 7.62 rifles myself. Just my two cents, but your call.

Edited December 19, 2007 by jbremount

[loki0629 55]

About two weeks ago I convinced my better half that I should start a modest collection of weapons.

Good luck with that.

 

I think I have a "modest" collection (3 rifles, 1 shotgun (soon 2), and 2 pistols) and my better half calls it an "arsenal". So whatever you do, don't let her define "modest".

 

I bought the Saiga .308 with the 16" barrel because it was the least expensive NEW semi-auto .308 that I could afford. However, I currently limit my shooting on it because of ammo prices. Personally I prefer to get as much "gun" as I can for the money and the Saiga .308 is exactly that. If you have the time, track down each rifle you are thinking of and hold it.

 

I was ready to pay 1400 on a JLD PTR-91 at the same shop that had a Saiga .308. I had both rifles in front of me and took my time hefting each one. In the end, I couldn't justify paying the higher amount for a weapon when another one just as reliable was available for a lot less. The PTR is probably more accurate and has more mags available for it but again, the price was a deal breaker when compared to the Saiga.

[UnidenStew 1]

May I also suggest that you strongly consider putting a portion of your budgeted allowance into buying as much ammo as you can, even before you purchase a rifle. All it takes is the stroke of King George's pen, or whomever precedes him to stop all imports of affordable ammo and accessories.

 

The guns are worthless without something to feed them.

[BobAsh 582]

In my opinion, get the 12-gage. It will gain in value (if that's a consideration) more than the others.

 

Also, there's nothing else like it.

[loki0629 55]

In my opinion, get the 12-gage. It will gain in value (if that's a consideration) more than the others.

 

Also, there's nothing else like it.

 

Thanks to micah I managed to get one the other day.

 

You and your evil brotherhood failed to stop me!

 

(ducks as bvamp throws ashtray)

[BobAsh 582]

Curses, foiled again!

[Elkhound 91]

Curses, foiled again!

 

 

I think the 12 gauge is the way to go with the shot gun. I just don't know which model I'll want. All of the choices on Tony's site look great. I guess I've got at least 14 or so months to think about it.

 

I suppose for 2008, I could go with a rifle and a shotgun from one of the other builders, and then go with the same combination in '09 from Tromix. What a wonderful country! We've got lots of choices here in the good old U.S.A.

 

I hope you guys in Oklahoma are doing better now. I met my wife in beautiful Muskogee. We lived through a few ice storms there before we started moving all over the country.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

A decent basic "arsenal" for the common joe would be a remington 870 12 ga ($250), a stevens 200 in 30-06 ($250 plus another $200 for basic tactical glass) and a utility handgun such as a ruger in 40 cal. You can get all that for less than the price of any one of the custom jobs you mention and you won't have to sell them in a divorce.

 

The 870 is less upscale than the saiga, but it is also tough as nails, under 300 bucks, and does a better job passing as a sporting gun. The saiga 12 is more money for starters and you'll want to convert it and add mags. All told, that's maybe $800 for just one gun (albeit a damn cool one). 12 gauge ammo is available everywhere, but you can go with the 20 if you're recoil sensitive. Anyplace that sells 12 gauge ammo is likely to have 20 on the shelf. Consider this your "homeland security" go to gun.

 

The stevens 200 in 30-06 with glass such as a bushnell 3200 10x tactical will really be able to reach out and touch someone for less than $500, you can also consider a mossberg or savage. Learn how to use the scope's adjustments and shoot at different distances as often as you can. I pick 30-06 because any corner hardware store in any logical part of the country will have ammo on the shelf to feed it. Between available decent ammo and knowing how to use the scope to range in a target, you're good to at least 600 yards. By comparison a saiga 308, home converted, with 4 hi cap mags will set you back about $800 and that's before you add another $150 worth of glass on top of it.

 

The handgun is pretty much your choice, but in my mind the ruger is a pretty sort of ugly, and it's as reliable as anything else out there. If you are fortunate enough to live in a concealed carry state then you might want to buy a more concealable model, but stay away from ones that are too small to have decent grips.

 

If you're really starting from nothing, be sure to also save some of that cash for ammo and other survival stuff. In the woods, a good axe is much more valuable than the fact that your custom gun can shoot 1/2 in better groups at 200 yards or tote along 30 rounds in the mag. Whatever you decide, good luck pleasing the Mrs. Also, be sure to buy a basic metal gun safe so they stay out of the hands of the kiddies. Once she sees that you have factored in safely and responsibly storing all your purchases it will win you big points.

Edited December 20, 2007 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff

[Cryptkeeper 0]

my favorite caliber is the 308. if you get a 308 look at this 1 that is coming http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_308v21.htm orders are being taken here https://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/S...+8+Barrel+Rifle but the best way we can help you is to tell us what you will use it for we can help you better.they are right the saiga 12 is 1 of very few shotguns that is mag. fead and sure to be baned which will make thier value go up. 2nd i would think is the saiga 308 not to many AK 308's on the market either if you wanting resale value the saiga 12 then the 308 it all depends on what are you going to use them for? range / hunting / resale / collecting /shits & giggles? with that kind of investment i would look into a safe to put them in also get a big 1 so you got room to grow lol ( hint dont tell her how many you got ,after a while you can smuggle them in lol she'll never know)

Edited December 20, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[Elkhound 91]

my favorite caliber is the 308. if you get a 308 look at this 1 that is coming http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_308v21.htm orders are being taken here https://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/S...+8+Barrel+Rifle but the best way we can help you is to tell us what you will use it for we can help you better.they are right the saiga 12 is 1 of very few shotguns that is mag. fead and sure to be baned which will make thier value go up. 2nd i would think is the saiga 308 not to many AK 308's on the market either if you wanting resale value the saiga 12 then the 308 it all depends on what are you going to use them for? range / hunting / resale / collecting /shits & giggles? with that kind of investment i would look into a safe to put them in also get a big 1 so you got room to grow lol ( hint dont tell her how many you got ,after a while you can smuggle them in lol she'll never know)

 

 

This board is a wealth of great information. I should have started here before I made my first purchase. I find it very interesting how my spouse and I are on two totally separate sheets of music when it comes to something I want to buy. I asked her, about a month ago, if I sold my atv, which I very rarely use, could I use the proceeds to start a "small" collection of rifles. She hates the atv, so I thought this would be a good tactic. She agreed. Then, with virtually no knowledge or information, I started spending.

 

 

The goal of my purchases is collecting. Buying items which I think are cool and worth owning. I also plan to find a good range or gun club where I can develop some accuracy and just simply enjoy the guns.

 

So, with no sense of direction, I bought a Mossberg 500 short barrel shotgun. I "sold" this gun to her as "home defense" and she didn't say a word. Then, I bought a Beretta G22 for plinking and to develop some shooting skills without spending a fortune on ammo. Next, I found the Wilson Combat website and could not resist their "Standard" shotgun. I had them swap the standard stock for a speedfeed III and drop the saddle. I just don't like the look of the saddle. I'm still waiting for delivery, so I'm not sure how my wife will react to it. My last purchase to date is a Sig 556. I bought it solely on looks. She saw it and was none too happy. Her reaction was "I thought that you were only going to buy two guns"

 

Interesting how my view of a small collection differs from her thought that I implied or said I'd only get two. So, as has been noted on this board, a safe was next, again to sell safety. Also, I do have teenagers and I don't want them messing with the guns without my hands on involvement.

 

With my initial purchases purchased without much sense of direction, my internet searches lead me to Saiga. I have been to the local gun store and handled a Saiga rifle. I really liked how it felt. The sales guy tried to steer me away from it, but I know that I want at least three or four. However, I do think I've pressed my luck about as far as I can for this year. I'm was planning on buying something from Krebs next month, and then later in the year, pick up something else. I think two per year will be the limit of her patience. However, thanks for the info. Cryptkeeper. I went to Gilbert's website and the .308 is pretty interesting. Maybe I'll switch up my plan and buy the .308 and a 12 gauge from Krebs.

 

I plan on taking more time with each purchase from now on. I have bought the first round of rifles without much research or knowledge, and I don't intend to be so ill informed from now on when spending greater than $500.00 a pop. I have already leaned a great deal from some of the forums and a lot from this forum. I appreciate your information and will keep reading here and seeking your advice as my small (or only two rifles as my wife thinks I said) collection slowly grows.

[Elkhound 91]

my favorite caliber is the 308. if you get a 308 look at this 1 that is coming http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_308v21.htm orders are being taken here https://www.gilbertsguns.com/Rifles/Saiga/S...+8+Barrel+Rifle but the best way we can help you is to tell us what you will use it for we can help you better.they are right the saiga 12 is 1 of very few shotguns that is mag. fead and sure to be baned which will make thier value go up. 2nd i would think is the saiga 308 not to many AK 308's on the market either if you wanting resale value the saiga 12 then the 308 it all depends on what are you going to use them for? range / hunting / resale / collecting /shits & giggles? with that kind of investment i would look into a safe to put them in also get a big 1 so you got room to grow lol ( hint dont tell her how many you got ,after a while you can smuggle them in lol she'll never know)

 

 

Correction: The G22 is a Walther. I guess I was half asleep when I was typing.

 

This board is a wealth of great information. I should have started here before I made my first purchase. I find it very interesting how my spouse and I are on two totally separate sheets of music when it comes to something I want to buy. I asked her, about a month ago, if I sold my atv, which I very rarely use, could I use the proceeds to start a "small" collection of rifles. She hates the atv, so I thought this would be a good tactic. She agreed. Then, with virtually no knowledge or information, I started spending.

 

 

The goal of my purchases is collecting. Buying items which I think are cool and worth owning. I also plan to find a good range or gun club where I can develop some accuracy and just simply enjoy the guns.

 

So, with no sense of direction, I bought a Mossberg 500 short barrel shotgun. I "sold" this gun to her as "home defense" and she didn't say a word. Then, I bought a Beretta G22 for plinking and to develop some shooting skills without spending a fortune on ammo. Next, I found the Wilson Combat website and could not resist their "Standard" shotgun. I had them swap the standard stock for a speedfeed III and drop the saddle. I just don't like the look of the saddle. I'm still waiting for delivery, so I'm not sure how my wife will react to it. My last purchase to date is a Sig 556. I bought it solely on looks. She saw it and was none too happy. Her reaction was "I thought that you were only going to buy two guns"

 

Interesting how my view of a small collection differs from her thought that I implied or said I'd only get two. So, as has been noted on this board, a safe was next, again to sell safety. Also, I do have teenagers and I don't want them messing with the guns without my hands on involvement.

 

With my initial purchases purchased without much sense of direction, my internet searches lead me to Saiga. I have been to the local gun store and handled a Saiga rifle. I really liked how it felt. The sales guy tried to steer me away from it, but I know that I want at least three or four. However, I do think I've pressed my luck about as far as I can for this year. I'm was planning on buying something from Krebs next month, and then later in the year, pick up something else. I think two per year will be the limit of her patience. However, thanks for the info. Cryptkeeper. I went to Gilbert's website and the .308 is pretty interesting. Maybe I'll switch up my plan and buy the .308 and a 12 gauge from Krebs.

 

I plan on taking more time with each purchase from now on. I have bought the first round of rifles without much research or knowledge, and I don't intend to be so ill informed from now on when spending greater than $500.00 a pop. I have already leaned a great deal from some of the forums and a lot from this forum. I appreciate your information and will keep reading here and seeking your advice as my small (or only two rifles as my wife thinks I said) collection slowly grows.

[BobAsh 582]

I hope you guys in Oklahoma are doing better now. I met my wife in beautiful Muskogee. We lived through a few ice storms there before we started moving all over the country.

 

We're doing fine now, thanks for the kind words. Tromix is located only a few minutes from Muskogee, actually.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

IMO it is tossup between the S-12 and the S.308 as far as which guns (among Sagas) to get first.

Due to the fact that S-12s are FAR more difficult to get, that would be my first choice between the two. The .308s are more plentiful but they will be the ones going up in price the most on the next shipment.

 

Best solution...get one of each and then get one of each of the other Saigas. That's what I did.

[Racer 27 37]

You should also think about getting a Ruger 10/22 rifle and take the kids and wife out shooting. Like you said 22 is cheap to shoot and getting her involved helps A LOT. You and she never know she may find it fun. Don't forget about ammo, slings, ammo, mags, ammo, holsters, ammo, scopes, ammo, etc.. Looked at my stuff and I found those things lacking. No ammo all you have is a expensive club.

I've got more then a dozen guns, I just picked up a new used 9mm Beretta with gold hammer and safety. Well I was looking at it the other day and the girlfriend soon to be fiance walked in looked at it on the table made a funny face and walked away. Quanity and a gun safe saves your ass. But sometimes you just have to tell them about a future gun buy, I figured that she would notice my saiga 12 when I get it because of all the fondling of it and the smell of my new man perfume. (gun powder day 12 gauge)

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

LOL Racer! man perfume...that could also be pheromones couldn't it? A new S-12 makes one feel quite manly!

Did I detect A HINT there on what your sweetie might be getting for Christmas this year???

[Racer 27 37]

LOL Racer! man perfume...that could also be pheromones couldn't it? A new S-12 makes one feel quite manly!

Did I detect A HINT there on what your sweetie might be getting for Christmas this year???

 

Yeah that was a hint. I'm looking for a Beagle puppy I'm going to put the ring on its collar so she dosen't know its coming. Going to do it at her folks house after I have a talk with her father. Yep I just need to find puppy and somehow get it 1 hour away to her parents house with out her knowing it. O and get the ring yet. I love last minute shit.

 

Signed Dumbass

 

PS might even get her a 10/22.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Racer 27

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

My advice is to NOT lie to the Mrs about either quantity or cost.

 

The three prices you pay rule is as follows:

First is the price you actually pay,

Second is the price you tell her you paid,

Third is the price you pay when she finds out what you actually paid...

[ck43001 12]

In my opinion, get the 12-gage. It will gain in value (if that's a consideration) more than the others.

 

 

+1 for the saiga-12

[Elkhound 91]

I agree about the price; better to confess up front. I have found that I can usually get my wife to give in if I buy her something of equal value. Of course, the downside to that is whatever I buy costs twice as much as it should!

 

You guys have got me a bit worried about the availability of the 12 gauge. Maybe I should move a bit faster on one. Why are the longer barrels easier to find? Can't you swap out the barrel if that is a big deal? Or, is the replacement barrel either hard to find, or simply too expensive to make it worth the trouble?

 

 

 

 

 

My advice is to NOT lie to the Mrs about either quantity or cost.

 

The three prices you pay rule is as follows:

First is the price you actually pay,

Second is the price you tell her you paid,

Third is the price you pay when she finds out what you actually paid...

[Racer 27 37]

There are no replacement barrels. You would have to cut it down to the length you want and you then may have to redrill the gas ports to let more gas though to work the action.

 

At dinner tonight the girlfriend tells me that her sister bought her husband a new $900 gun. I said that I hope he needed that one. And she replys "You can always use a new gun" Much easier if the boss is on yourside.

[Elkhound 91]

[

 

There seem to be a supply of 20 gauge shotguns out there. Now, other than the obvious difference, is there any problem with the 20s? Clearly, for home defense, a 20 is plenty of close quarter stopping power, correct?

 

I didn't check the web site carefully for this question, but does anyone know if Tromix will modify a 20 if i buy one? Or even if I buy a 20 now, should I buy a complete 12 from Tony when my turn comes up and not waste any additional funds on the 20. To me, for personal collection purposes, it probably does not matter whether it is a 12 or a 20.

 

Thanks.

 

Also, I've been a part of a few forums over the years. So far, the people who participate on this forum are simply the best. I appreciate your willingness to help me learn about Saigas without acting like I must be some sort of idiot because I ask a simple or seemingly naive questions.

 

 

quote name=Racer 27' date='Dec 21 2007, 12:20 AM' post='187256]

There are no replacement barrels. You would have to cut it down to the length you want and you then may have to redrill the gas ports to let more gas though to work the action.

 

At dinner tonight the girlfriend tells me that her sister bought her husband a new $900 gun. I said that I hope he needed that one. And she replys "You can always use a new gun" Much easier if the boss is on yourside.

[Cryptkeeper 0]

im lucky my wifes a true blond she has, no idea how many or much more how much, all she know is i have some guns (no idea how many LoL).she isnt afraid of guns just has no interest in them.she wants 1 by the bed just incase but will not go to the range with me(wish she would) to her thats a guy thing.i keep telling her she need to go out and fire it a few times so she knows how to work it and get to know it .maybe one day she will. she use to have a .22 pistol she carried in her purse. only problem i got now is the safe is getting full, its kinda hard to smuggle in a new safe (LOL). but i will need to let her know of any pistols i may get. but as far as rifles go im just about where i want to be (would love to get more but the must have is almost met). like i would love to get an M1 grand, M1A,K98,AR15, and AR10.but i got other needs ATM those are more of a wishlist maybe oneday but arent a must have.i dont have a saiga 12 yet but that is almost a must have i really want.the saige 12 is at the top of the list if/when i get anymore.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Cryptkeeper

[Elkhound 91]

im lucky my wifes a true blond she has, no idea how many or much more how much, all she know is i have some guns (no idea how many LoL).she isnt afraid of guns just has no interest in them.she wants 1 by the bed just incase but will not go to the range with me(wish she would) to her thats a guy thing.i keep telling her she need to go out and fire it a few times so she knows how to work it and get to know it .maybe one day she will. she use to have a .22 pistol she carried in her purse. only problem i got now is the safe is getting full, its kinda hard to smuggle in a new safe (LOL). but i will need to let her know of any pistols i may get. but as far as rifles go im just about where i want to be (would love to get more but the must have is almost met). like i would love to get an M1 grand, M1A,K98,AR15, and AR10.but i got other needs ATM those are more of a wishlist maybe oneday but arent a must have.i dont have a saiga 12 yet but that is almost a must have i really want.the saige 12 is at the top of the list if/when i get anymore.

 

 

My wish list is getting too long. I'd like an M1A, a Magpul Masada when they come out, a Saiga 12 gauge, a Tromix anything, a Krebs custom, a Styer tactical rifle, a Howa axiom (I don't know much about this rifle, I just like the way it looks) and something with some really nice wood furniture, as so far I only have one rifle with wood. I, too, will be limited by safe size. There is NO WAY I'll ever be able to exceed the capacity of the safe. I simply could not justify that to her and she would not except it. Until it is full, however, is it possible to sneak a rifle or two into the safe while she is at work? I think so, just so long as my 11 year doesn't see it. She'd rat out Santa Claus if she thought there was something in it for her.

[Racer 27 37]

Like I said don't forget the accessories. And good list. Easy way to sneak one or two in would be taking a trip to the range and bring them all in at once. But don't forget to buy her something nice once in awhile to. Flowers once a month at random times buys you lots of credit.

[Threecard 15]

So, with no sense of direction, I bought a Mossberg 500 short barrel shotgun. I "sold" this gun to her as "home defense" and she didn't say a word. Then, I bought a Beretta G22 for plinking and to develop some shooting skills without spending a fortune on ammo. Next, I found the Wilson Combat website and could not resist their "Standard" shotgun. I had them swap the standard stock for a speedfeed III and drop the saddle.

 

Hey, at least from where I stand, you did OK.

 

I especially wouldn't sell the Mossberg short. The 500 was one of the first guns I bought, about 20 years ago, and I still have it. While it's not a Saiga 12, and definitely not a Tromix 12, it's still a pretty effective weapon.

 

The sound of a slide being racked is still a wonderful thing.

[Elkhound 91]

I like how the Mossberg feels. It's got the 18 1/2" barrel and the Marinecoat finish. It was going to be the home defense shotgun, but the Wilson Combat has a surefire light and more shell capacity, so it will probably be the one in the bedroom. I've got teenagers, so the surefire was a necessity. The last thing I need is to blast a kid sneaking into the house after curfew.

 

Cobra 76 two has invited me to shoot with him, so hopefully, after the holidays pass, I'll get to try out the Sig while I'm waiting for spousal permission to make the next purchase.

 

WJ

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

The sound of a slide being racked is still a wonderful thing.

 

+1

[Threecard 15]

I like how the Mossberg feels. It's got the 18 1/2" barrel and the Marinecoat finish. It was going to be the home defense shotgun, but the Wilson Combat has a surefire light and more shell capacity, so it will probably be the one in the bedroom. I've got teenagers, so the surefire was a necessity. The last thing I need is to blast a kid sneaking into the house after curfew.

 

 

I certainly get that--I think a light is an excellent choice, especially in your situation.

 

I have little ones (6yrs, 4yrs, and 11 months), so the sneaking in days are a little (but not far enough) ahead of me. That being said, I like having a light. My primary weapon in such a case would be a pistol, since it's more precise than a shotgun. It does have a light on it, because the little critters always seem to be thirsty or hungry, and you never know when they're creeping around.

 

The little ones sleep near me and my wife on the upper floor, so my plan (you have to at least start with a plan) is to exit our room and cover the stairs, have my wife move the kids into our room, and then we all retreat into it while calling 9-1-1. With all of us in a corner and backs to the wall, the Mossberg comes out, with a very loud shout from me to leave the house followed closely by the sound of the slide being racked (ejecting an unspent round....). If they don't leave at that point, they can have what's downstairs. If they decide to come up and into our room, we'll deal with them.

 

By the way, I bought the Mossberg 500 in 1986 at Service Merchandise (no longer in business). It was billed as the "Defender Combo" package and included a laminated wood stock, an interchangeable polymer pistol grip, an 18.5 inch barrel, and a 26 inch barrel, all for a grand total of $205.00, including tax. I was 20 years old, and my wait time was as long as it took me to write the check.

 

My best to all of you in this New Year. Let the world know that we will stand against all who confront us, foreign and domestic, and we will not waiver. Come what may, we stand, together.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Threecard