mike12345 18 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I was getting ready to head out andmake a vid of the WM drum in action. I grabbed my side folder and guess what I saw... Tonys weld broke. One whole side of the plate for the ace side folding stock broke off the reciever. The other side has a crack running half way down the reciever on the weld. I just want to add this is from normal use and I'll add pictures tonight when I get home. I have no doubt if I'm willing to wait tony would fix it for free but I have machine shops I can work in and all the equipment to weld it, mill the bead off, and refinish it. I also have guys who weld stuff for a living (which means they are really good at it) who will weld it for me. This will save me shipping both ways and tony some work. they just want to know what material the reciever is made of so they know how hot it needs to be to weld it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I was getting ready to head out andmake a vid of the WM drum in action. I grabbed my side folder and guess what I saw... Tonys weld broke. One whole side of the plate for the ace side folding stock broke off the reciever. The other side has a crack running half way down the reciever on the weld. I just want to add this is from normal use and I'll add pictures tonight when I get home. I have no doubt if I'm willing to wait tony would fix it for free but I have machine shops I can work in and all the equipment to weld it, mill the bead off, and refinish it. I also have guys who weld stuff for a living (which means they are really good at it) who will weld it for me. This will save me shipping both ways and tony some work. they just want to know what material the reciever is made of so they know how hot it needs to be to weld it. More than likely that it is 4130 carbon steel like high quality receiver blanks. I would contact Tony and see what he could do for you. If you went another route you may void Tony's warrenty. Sometimes stuff like that happens prob no ones fault good luck getting it fixed post some pics that way others can look to see if they may have that happan on theres. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Tony will be back from vacation this week. just put "weld broke" in the subject line, I'm sure he will fix you up ASAP. This is a highly unusual occurance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) Heres the pictures, Im still going to fix it myself. It will be done tomorrow verses weeks from now. and wont cost me shipping. ETA: I assume this happened a while ago shooting 3in mag winchester ammunition, I like the 00B 15 pellot but it kicks like a mule. I just diden't know until now. It is hard to see unless you bend it open like the bottom picture. Edited December 27, 2007 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lammy 1 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Heres the pictures, Im still going to fix it myself. It will be done tomorrow verses weeks from now. and wont cost me shipping. ETA: I assume this happened a while ago shooting 3in mag winchester ammunition, I like the 00B 15 pellot but it kicks like a mule. I just diden't know until now. It is hard to see unless you bend it open like the bottom picture. And that's why historically rear trunnions are riveted on stamped receivers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 If you are fixing it yourself then why did you even post this thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) prolly should ask tony what alloy of steel it is Cobra - he may need to know how hot to go with a tig welder, which wont be real hot for the tig, or the alloy of wire to use in it. He might even be able to reheat the weld if he is handy with the tig, skip the wire, and make it new again, then redo the finish.....but tigs run REAL hot, so it is easy to melt the reciever Edited December 28, 2007 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ar15pistolpimp 0 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 prolly should ask tony what alloy of steel it is Cobra - he may need to know how hot to go with a tig welder, which wont be real hot for the tig, or the alloy of wire to use in it. He might even be able to reheat the weld if he is handy with the tig, skip the wire, and make it new again, then redo the finish.....but tigs run REAL hot, so it is easy to melt the reciever When you weld metal it becomes hard. The metal expands in the surrounding area of the weld and it becomes hard. Sometimes when you weld on heat treated metal,(such as a receiver) it becomes work hardened. Some time when you weld on heat treated metal you have to re-treat the metal and there is a specific process to retreat metal. Work hardening is like taking a piece of soft steel strap and bend it back and forth until it snaps, What is happening is the metal molecules are becoming more dense from heat thus harder and brittle until it snaps. From the pictures I saw it broke at a seem. If I were to fix it I would stitch weld it with a small block behind it, letting it cool between welds as to not warp the metal because it is thin. It doesn't look like a hard fix but depending on the finish it could be a pain in the ass to match the color unless you strip and refinish the whole thing. I would bead blast the whole thing, use mild steel for the rod, stitch and plug weld a block behind the joint(tig weld), re heat treat the receiver, then refinish it. That is what I would do if it were mine. Gl to ya I, hope you get that girl up and running soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hi I agree with Bvamp, a tig welded finnish would be strong and neat, forget the mig weld option as it requires grinding/polishing and can cause spatter dammage to other parts of the gun if not protected, i am a qualified mig and tig welder and i would choose tig myself. assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 prolly should ask tony what alloy of steel it is Cobra - he may need to know how hot to go with a tig welder, which wont be real hot for the tig, or the alloy of wire to use in it. He might even be able to reheat the weld if he is handy with the tig, skip the wire, and make it new again, then redo the finish.....but tigs run REAL hot, so it is easy to melt the reciever Just a heads up for anyone. A tig welder uses a pedal that you can adj the heat on the fly. A TIG would be the most precise welder you can use and you wouldn't have to be worried about it running it to hot since a skilled tig welder can weld two cut beer cans together, try that with a stick are MIG. I would think it was either a cold start weld where the temp was way different starting the weld (I always pre-heat my metal with a flame to get the temp up, before welding) or there may have been a pocket of air in the weld. Either of the above scenarios could cause a weak spot that would slowing grow bigger and bigger from the recoil of these guns. From what I have seen to me, it seems like a freak accident that can happen once in a blue moon. There is a reason why in the industry important welds get x-rayed, because even the best can't get it perfect 100% of the time. Since all the jobs I've seen from tony seem to be real craftsman like work (Cant know for sure not having the gun in my hand, or seeing his welded beads). But with his reputation I'm sure they are perfect. If I where you I would let tony fix it, if these guys where so good they wouldn't be asking you to find out what metal it is. Did you ever stop to think what would happen if they weld it and it didn't come out right. Is tony suppose to fix it then. You can only remove and re install something so many times before there not enough metal any more to fix it right. I would guess Tony has a jig so while he welds it the plate doesn't move (are these guys going to make a custom jig, for ONE job). Yea you can spot weld all corners then go back to weld it up. But if these guys don't do it right, whatever side they start welding will pull the plate over, and then YOUR screwed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Well if it was me I would have just contacted Tony FIRST before coming here and saying shit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) . Edited December 29, 2007 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) The reason I posted the topic: Number 1) is in the topic, I wanted to know what grade steel because Dave my welder asked. number 2) this is the second time this tromix gun has broken and I shoulden't have to do this shit. Number 3) Tony is on vacation until the 3rd of jan so I can't contact him. Here's the repair. The finish is drying, i'll take it out, test fire, and post AAR tomorrow. Dave did a great job Tig welding this back together. Edited December 29, 2007 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 There was a problem with the weld joint on a few guns that got out awhile back. The issue has been resolved. Of course, I would have fixed it for free and paid the freight if you had sent it back. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I kind of miss the point of buying a conversion by a Pro that is known to stand behind his product, just to fail to take advantage of that service when needed. I own a fair bit of first rate equipment, I have very little junk. Nothing I own should ever break! But, sometimes it does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunz4Fun 0 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Well if it was me I would have just contacted Tony FIRST before coming here and saying shit. Like when the Saiga 12 barrels were too short? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunrunner123 0 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I thank you for posting it. I for one dont think any less of my tromix gun or Tonys quality work. I also like to know that Tony will stand behind his work. But it is also nice to know for me(who is a non technical person) what to look for and be aware of. This it what this forum is about.EVERYTHING ABOUT SAIGAS GOOD OR BAD. The person who posted it stated a fact. Not an exaggerated story. Its all good. HAPPY NEW YEAR. Felice ano nuevo. Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nib 1 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Could the gas setting in the wrong position cause this?? BANG POUND BANG POUND What kind of rear trunion is used with the ACE stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) The shotgun worked fine as expected, the weld dident break after 20rds of 3in mag 15 pellot with full choke it kicked the shit out of me. now hopefully I can finaly make the WM 20rd dump vid and post it. I dont use birdshot in these guns, all buckshot I have used works on gas setting 1 so i never change it. Its not from the wrong gas setting. The rear trunion is still riveted It just has a plate welded on the back that has two threaded holes. This cracked just from the recoil of the gun, the stock impacting my shoulder. Edited December 30, 2007 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Shit breaks. EVEN well made shit. If you can fix it yourself it is often easier than shipping it back for warranty work--even if the warranty work is FREE! It's nice to know Tony stands behind his work,if you can't get it fixed yourself, but Mike123456 was able to have it done without the hassle of shipping-and that's what makes it so great to have talented friends! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Well, the work AND the shipping are free, and refinishing as well, but if you're in that big of a hurry I guess it's an option. Edited December 30, 2007 by BobAsh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Just fyi, the stuff is in my best guess equal to a-36 steel, any machinest or welder can find a spec(pull a machinary hand book or the spec on line with any steel wholesaler) on standard carbon steel. I doubt that there would be any welding on hardened or speciality parts on a saiga, or ak for that matter. Thus the stamped steel would be the product to give the welder the most consern. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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