308_win 0 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I am a newbie on the forum and hopefully someone can give me a bit of advice. I am looking to buy either a SAIGA M3 or a MK in .223 Rem. Does anyone have any experience of the MK (AK-102)? I have shot the M3 several times, however I am unsure what the shorter barrel length of the MK will do to accuracy..... Any help much appreciated! 308_win Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) Unfortunately, those rifles are not available in the USA. Saiga MK Saiga M3 Izhmash home page (the manufacturer of all good things Kalashnikov) http://www.izhmash.ru/eng Edited December 29, 2007 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
308_win 0 Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Nalioth, Sorry to hear that. Im in the UK. Comes as a surprise that we are allowed something here that you arent! 308_win Unfortunately, those rifles are not available in the USA. Saiga MK Saiga M3 Izhmash home page (the manufacturer of all good things Kalashnikov) http://www.izhmash.ru/eng Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) Nalioth, Sorry to hear that. Im in the UK. Comes as a surprise that we are allowed something here that you arent! 308_win To be honest, 308_win, I'd still rather have our Saigas. Yours are "straight-pull" guns, if I recall the term correctly. For those of us in the USA who are unfamiliar with that term, a "straight-pull" semiautomatic requires you to cycle the action each shot by hand. We can take our ugly old Saigas and turn them into an MK or M3 (and many people do). I find it satisfying to do this work, myself. To answer your question, the MK has the same barrel length as the AKSU-74/AKS-74U, and these are issued to troops in place of a submachine gun. I'd not think you'd get anywhere near the accuracy of the M3 at 200 yards range. IMHO, the AK isn't accurate like our soldiers are used to in the M16 / L85, but you lose a lot in the shorter barrel. Edited December 29, 2007 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Yours are "straight-pull" guns, if I recall the term correctly. For those of us in the USA who are unfamiliar with that term, a "straight-pull" semiautomatic requires you to cycle the action each shot by hand. I've seen a video on YouTube with a "straight-pull" Saiga. The guy said he had to have the gas tube blocked off, and was racking the bolt by hand each shot. Edited to add video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gak-aCSTkPE (he's got quite the flinch, watch when he pulls the trigger the first time, with no round chambered) Edited December 30, 2007 by 22_Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Straight pull.... Horrifying! Now I'm gonna have bad dreams. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 well some brits know how to have fun, thats for sure - Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Sucks ass for those straight pull gays.....er....i mean guys. Nice B, that guy is one hell of a shot for never firing the M-2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Straight-Pull... The Romanians did something similar for here in the USA with the PAR rifles, instead of straight pull they made pump action SAR AK's... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Fixed. Straight-Pull... The Romanians did something similar for here in the USA Kalifornistan with the PAR rifles, instead of straight pull they made pump action SAR AK's... On a side note, if you do desire such a travesty outside of Kommiefornia, Century Arms can provide. Edited December 30, 2007 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuAside 2 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 To answer your question, the MK has the same barrel length as the AKSU-74/AKS-74U, and these are issued to troops in place of a submachine gun. I'd not think you'd get anywhere near the accuracy of the M3 at 200 yards range. IMHO, the AK isn't accurate like our soldiers are used to in the M16 / L85, but you lose a lot in the shorter barrel. not quite. they're AK102 clones, so the barrel is 10 cm longer than that of an AKSU. that's a barrel slightly over 310mm in length (see nice pic for size comparison with an M4). but yeah, you should expect any kind of accuracy past 150m, but that's not really the idea anyway The Romanians did something similar for here in the USA with the PAR rifles, instead of straight pull they made pump action SAR AK's... Sig even made pump action 550's see the included picture for some laughs (or cries). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 Mother of GOD! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie D 2 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well if you got to pull every time, what's the point? Get a K31 (or any bolt gun) so you max out on accuracy since your rate of fire is gonna be . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cryptkeeper 0 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 what do they do to make it straight pull,take out the piston? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 what do they do to make it straight pull,take out the piston? The gas ports aren't drilled in the barrels, I believe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuAside 2 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 probably lack some parts like the rod etc. poor brits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 "straight pull" = Neutered! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
308_win 0 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Thanks to all for your input. I had guessed that the accuracy would be worse in the shorter barrel, velocity and range being reduced in the shorter tube, I was hoping someone woud have first hand experience. Yes the one Im after is in 223 remington (far more accurate than the original chambering). Yes, they are "straight pull" which is legally the same as a standard bolt action. It is illegal in the UK to modify a prohibited firearm such as a semi automatic centre fire rifle in order to make it legal, therefore all straight pull guns in the UK require to be manufactured at the factory as such. This means that all the gas parts seen on the SAIGA range are just for show. This is because us brits are constrained by some of the tightest gun controls in the world, given our governments liking of knee-jerk overreactionary policy and law making. We are only allowed semi auto rifles if they are chambered in .22LR. Im looking for something that has "high" rate of fire, large mag capacity and that has possibility of go faster bits. Either an AK clone or a M16 clone are the only real possibilities available to me on this side of the pond, with the AK clones being about a third of the price of the M16s. As for accuacy, the comments above are correct, the original AKs are nothing like an L85 (SA80) or a M16. However the SAIGA 223 chambering and 1 in 7" barrel twist gives accurate fire out to 600 yards (the longest I have tried it at so far). Happy shooting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 This idea begs the question. Could you put an auto-seer in the straight-pull ak and just hold the trigger and fast cycle the rounds? THAT would be sweet. Left hand holds trigger, right hand slaps the bolt back (with gloves on) as fast as possible. Hrm... Can you add an extension to the bolt handle to allow easier hand cycling? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
308_win 0 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yeah, thats one of the things I was going to look into. Another option would be to fit an "up and over" left hand cocking lever, although that would inhibit any fitting of scopes. Also thought about mounting a grip attachment so that you could "pump" the cocking lever with your left (forward) hand. alternatively a solenoid could be fitted with a return spring - press a button and it cocks the action...... would all be dependant on legislation though! For some reason its very hard to come by 30 round magazines over here. We dont have any ban on high cap mags, its just Saiga 223 and 7.62 which are difficult to find.... If anyone knows of anywhere that has the necessary export licence Id certainly be obliged. 308_win Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Also thought about mounting a grip attachment so that you could "pump" the cocking lever with your left (forward) hand. Now you just need to get this imported, and you got yourself a wish fulfilled Clicks for more info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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