nissantech 0 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have a saiga 12 and love it . I have alwayes wonted a 308 rifle and wanted to know what all you thought. When it comes to the saiga , i know that it is as reliable as it comes but what about the FAL ? If i did get a saiga it would be converted. Also having a hard time between 16 or 21, i have read many things on this form before posting. I already have a Bulgairen ak 47 nad i was wonting something with a little more kich ass. thanks to all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have a saiga 12 and love it . I have alwayes wonted a 308 rifle and wanted to know what all you thought. When it comes to the saiga , i know that it is as reliable as it comes but what about the FAL ? If i did get a saiga it would be converted. Also having a hard time between 16 or 21, i have read many things on this form before posting. I already have a Bulgairen ak 47 nad i was wonting something with a little more kich ass. thanks to all I went through that myself because the FAL has such a plethora of cheap spares and magazines but I gave them both the "Pepsi Challenge" and for my taste the Saiga is the better choice despite the pricey magazines and weird optics mounting problems. My current Saiga with naught but a recrowning and some decent ammo will shoot circles around my STG58(built from a "like new" parts kit from DSA 8 years ago) and it's lighter yet gives the impression of being more reliable and it feels just like an S12 or AKM meaning you could outfit them all the same and put your muscle memory to work on your shooting rather than memorizing several sets of controls.. Just an opinon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 FAL or saiga i would say if you want to save $ get the saiga very good gun reliable cant go wrong with that as far as the FAL if your talking about the same price range as the saiga converted you probably wont egt the best of quality in an fal for 500$ so i would definately go saiga if your going in the pricerange of 1300-1600$ for the DSA then you are opened up to the springfield m1as. its all in what you want but i would say for te $ s308 you cant go wrong Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nissantech 0 Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 FAL or saiga i would say if you want to save $ get the saiga very good gun reliable cant go wrong with that as far as the FAL if your talking about the same price range as the saiga converted you probably wont egt the best of quality in an fal for 500$ so i would definately go saiga if your going in the pricerange of 1300-1600$ for the DSA then you are opened up to the springfield m1as. its all in what you want but i would say for te $ s308 you cant go wrong motopilot1 thank you for youre advisa . I see in youre pic. , is that a 308 and if so what size barrel do you have. i think i like the 21 chopped down to about 19 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 FAL or saiga i would say if you want to save $ get the saiga very good gun reliable cant go wrong with that as far as the FAL if your talking about the same price range as the saiga converted you probably wont egt the best of quality in an fal for 500$ so i would definately go saiga if your going in the pricerange of 1300-1600$ for the DSA then you are opened up to the springfield m1as. its all in what you want but i would say for te $ s308 you cant go wrong motopilot1 thank you for youre advisa . I see in youre pic. , is that a 308 and if so what size barrel do you have. i think i like the 21 chopped down to about 19 . That looks like a Daewoo in his avatar but... If you only want a couple of magazines the Saiga is the cheaper choice but if you want oh 12-24 magazines like I do then the Saiga costs just as much as the FAL. The folding stock option has way more variety and is usually cheaper with the Saiga than with the FAL and there is a better selection of aftermarket full buttstocks as well including a polymer folding full buttstock. The FAL can have it's gas adjusted to function with crappy ammo like Ishapore or Radway Green but I personally don't shot that crap so it's a moot point for me but for those on a budget it might be. FAL $5 magazines Saiga $45 Magazines FAL Flat top style optics mounting Saiga Cobbled together solutions other than Russian stuff FAL about 5 different available full buttstocks Saiga dozens of types of full buttstocks and AR15 stocks can be used with an adapter A DSA non chromed FAL will outshoot(marginally) a chromed Saiga but a Chromed FAL will not out outshoot a stock Saiga and a tuned Chromed Saiga is equal or more accurate than the fancy smancy DSA FAL(for 1//3 the price) The FAL won't get you clowned at the range by the gun snobs like a Saiga but then again the clowning stops when you start kicking everyone's butt with it(just like with your S12 vs the Benelli/Winchester/Remington crowd). A lot to think about and the availability of mags caused me to ditch my first S308 and S12 back during the ban and the FAL and the M14 were all that would do but I was able to turn those into enough money to do my S308 program right buying a couple thousands rounds of good 308 before the price skyrocketed and decent optics and a few other toy I wanted but couldn't justify. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 FAL is as or more reliable than a converted saiga (IMO). If you factor in the conversion (unless you do it yourself and make the wood parts etc), then the FAL wins the $ side of things. FAL mags are cheap and plentiful, FAL parts used to be. Saiga mags are botique things and very pricey. I got into the saiga because it was cheap and I could upgrade cheaply because I was willing to make my own furniture. Were that not the case, I would have gotten a FAL or HK clone (though the HK's are hard on brass). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuAside 2 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 remember that you've got FALs and you've got FALs it's a very wide spectrum... not to mention that if you throw parts kits into the mix, you get an even wider spectrum because far too often they've got mismatched parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I say get a good FAL or M1A, but FAL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uglyrussian308 0 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 FAL vs. Saiga? I've had them both. My Saiga has been less temperamental than my FAL. I had to open gas port to get the FAL to work with 16" barrel reliably. Once I did that it ran fine. My Saiga my 16" 308S has yet to malfunction with a mix of 308 ammo. Unfortunately Saiga magazines are expensive. Also my FAL's bore was not chrome lined. That's a reliability plus for the Saiga. On one occasion my FAL was stored without cleaning in a vehicle for a couple of months after a range session. Copper corrosion and powder fouling must have taken set in the gas tube because it would not cycle the next time I shot it. This problem was corrected with liberal doses of CLP and firing 3-4 rounds (had no cleaning gear with me). I haven't "rode hard and put away wet" my Saiga like that yet but I suspect the chrome bore and chrome gas piston will probably prevent this from happening under the same circumstances. Accuracy in my experience (FAL vs. Saiga) seems about the same. I guess when you compare a total gun package (magazines, Saiga conversion parts etc.) in dollars and cents they are pretty close given the cost of Saiga mags. IMHO the FAL has greater visual appeal but the Saiga is more robust and reliable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 I've had a DSA and a Century FAL as well as three Saiga's, and for reliability the Saiga's are definitely better. FAL's are reasonably reliable, but they're not AK's. I've also never been very impressed with FAL accuracy. It's better than most AK's and on a par with most Saiga's, but it's nothing to write home about. FAL's used to be affordable, reliable battle rifles with tons of spare parts and cheap mags. That's not really the case anymore. The receivers have dried up and parts kits aren't as available, as nice or as cheap. The mags are still cheap, but that's it. Saiga's are still affordable, reliable battle rifles with tons of cheap parts, but unfortunately no cheap mags. Six years ago I would have recommended an FAL, but at this point in time, I'd get a Saiga or an DPMS .308. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nissantech 0 Posted January 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 thanks to everybody for ther input. I have been made aware of things that i didnt know about. I still have not made up my mind and if i did get a saiga i would still be timid about converting it myself. Have read everything to do with the conversions and still am not that confident about it. A lot of money being toyed with. thanks again to everbody!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 thanks to everybody for ther input. I have been made aware of things that i didnt know about. I still have not made up my mind and if i did get a saiga i would still be timid about converting it myself. Have read everything to do with the conversions and still am not that confident about it. A lot of money being toyed with. thanks again to everbody!!!!!!! The hardest part about the conversion is cutting the square hole for the grip nut and if you use a milled/Yugoslavian type external block then it's merely a matter of drilling 3 hole and inserting button head cap screws and nuts on the other side. The welds on the cover plate can be lightly ground from the outside with some margin for error then knocked the last little bit off with a cheap chisel. It's not really that hard and all of the USA parts are available by mail order. What city are you in?Maybe someone local to you could walk you through it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
layer 0 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 The hardest part about the conversion is cutting the square hole for the grip nut I didn't have to cut a hole for the grip nut at all on my .308??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fossten 1 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 thanks to everybody for ther input. I have been made aware of things that i didnt know about. I still have not made up my mind and if i did get a saiga i would still be timid about converting it myself. Have read everything to do with the conversions and still am not that confident about it. A lot of money being toyed with. thanks again to everbody!!!!!!! Don't be afraid of conversion. Many of us including me know nothing about gunsmithing and were able to convert the Saiga with regular tools. It is NOT that difficult. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 The hardest part about the conversion is cutting the square hole for the grip nut I didn't have to cut a hole for the grip nut at all on my .308??? Do the newer ones already come cut for the grip nut? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Do the newer ones already come cut for the grip nut? Mine did. I bought it new about a year ago, but I don't know how long it sat in the distribution pipeline before I got it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Cutting the hole for the pistol grip nut isn't very hard. You just mark the location, find dead center and then drill a small pilot hole. Then take a drill bit of the same diameter as the side to side measurement of the nut. Drill the hole and square it off with a small file checking it regularly to make sure you don't overdo it. It only takes about 20 minutes or so. Files are great for this kind of work as the work goes slower and is more deliberate than when you use a Dremel. I find I'm far less likely to screw up when I'm working a few file strokes at a time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Cutting the hole for the pistol grip nut isn't very hard. You just mark the location, find dead center and then drill a small pilot hole. Then take a drill bit of the same diameter as the side to side measurement of the nut. Drill the hole and square it off with a small file checking it regularly to make sure you don't overdo it. It only takes about 20 minutes or so. Files are great for this kind of work as the work goes slower and is more deliberate than when you use a Dremel. I find I'm far less likely to screw up when I'm working a few file strokes at a time. I agree it's not that hard but he seemed intimidated by the process and that is the only thing I could think of that was really more effort than a snap-tite model. I have kinda side stepped all of that by using the milled receiver grip blocks that rivet or screw to the outside of the receiver though.They also locate the grip better laterally and prevent twisting and it's the only way I roll now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nissantech 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Acually the only thing that worrys me is the fire control group and how is the best way to put the pg plate on the receaver. I know that bolts are the easy way to go but i do not trust this and would rather go with rivets or welding. dont have a welder and have read that rivets can get tricky. thanks. would love to do the conversion myself. Also had another question,,,,,, how does the front sight come off the s308. Do you have to cutt the barrel or can you knock roll pins out like the an ak 47 !!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fossten 1 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Acually the only thing that worrys me is the fire control group and how is the best way to put the pg plate on the receaver. I know that bolts are the easy way to go but i do not trust this and would rather go with rivets or welding. dont have a welder and have read that rivets can get tricky. thanks. would love to do the conversion myself. Also had another question,,,,,, how does the front sight come off the s308. Do you have to cutt the barrel or can you knock roll pins out like the an ak 47 !!!!!!!! You can knock the pins out, but from what I hear it's a bear of a job doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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