paprotective 362 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Okay folks. I just ordered (Friday) a Mosin Nagant 91/30 with 28" Barrell from Classic for $89 (hand select). Its coming with WOOD stock and supposed-ly Excellent condition. Should be in Wed/Thurs this WEEK to my local FFL. I asked TonyR about cutting the barrell for possible better harmonics and he suggested 21" should be good for the 54R rounds. I will go 22 inches and want to thread the barrell for a muzzle brake and do a CROWN job on it to make it look more TARGET like. 22 inches is 2" longer than the model 44 Nagant so it should be good for range work. Ive been looking at 700REM and Savages 10FP and they are 22-26 inches. I'm getting the ATI Black Stock and ATI Scope Mount and am having the bolt-handle 'Swept' back professionally by a machine shop guy on GB that does these. They look nice vs. a ATI rig looking thing. The scope is going to be like 6-24x44 with FOV of about 3 ft./100 yards. I also read online there is place that can sell you a better FCG to help the trigger be lighter/crispier (chicken) There is a guy also on GB that also sells Mosin Nagant Barrells, btw. I'm hoping this creation gets me a 3-4 inch group at 500 yards, which by what I read is entirely possible. -------------------- Later, Maybe... I'm going to look into finding 2 trigger assy. and weld the stock fixed mag to another mag (cut off) to get 10 rounds. Maybe send both to somebody like Cobra2 and he can do it up. that would make it unique. Better would be to get a Drag 10 round detachable mag and rig that on and have a removable mag. (then just buy an SVD for $800, I know, I know...) ---------------------- 1)How do I cut the Barrel?? Hacksaw, Tube Cutter?? I am limited to a few options and I can clean up the end with a file/sander I guess. 2)Renting dinzig's Crowning tool would be next. 3)So the barrell I read is .581" in OD at the end. What Size and Thread pattern would you do (metric vs. inches)? Looking for popular 'threadings' in case I want to change the 'goodies.' 4)Also what type of muzzle brake would you put on it?? Its 7.62 so would a Tromix Shark (or AK type) fit it? It will take me time. I will take pics thru out of it and let you know how it goes. Other ideas for it (realistic)?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shellshock1918 1 Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) To be honest, and this is coming from a purist collector POV, I wouldn't do anything that isn't reversible to it. You can buy a bent bolt handle piece that is identical to the Soviet sniper style(bolt body). Permanently modifying it to a sporter configuration only decreases its value. Edited March 4, 2008 by Shellshock1918 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 To be honest, and this is coming from a purist collector POV, I wouldn't do anything that isn't reversible to it. You can buy a bent bolt handle piece that is identical to the Soviet sniper style(bolt body). Permanently modifying it to a sporter configuration only decreases its value. I was going to keep the original stock and possibly refinish it (have not seen it yet). My brother-law is a HUGE collector (over 200 rifles) of old/new stuff and he would agree with you. I do 'high-security' work and need a decent rifle. And for under $300 I can have one that looks new(er). I could always also buy a spare barrel off the GB guy also to return to stock config. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I would be careful of the ATI stock, they have a tendency to be warped. This puts tension on the barrel that makes the gun less accurate. The 91/30 that I put one on went from 1-2" groups @100 yds to 8-10" until I removed enough material from the stock to free float the bbl. It was a lot of work, if I had known ahead of time I would have gone with the Boyds walnut stock. It's heavier and I think it may need its own work done, but IIRC it's not much more expensive and it sure is nicer. Also, if you are cutting the bbl and not planning on replacing the front sight, you might consider swapping out the rear sight for a scout style mount. Easier on the eyes and faster target acquisition, plus you don't have to do any permanent mods. As far as chopping an old surplus gun goes, well, I go both ways. Every time I have done it I have been happy, but then I went and got another one that I kept original. To each his own I guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 With the price od nagants, buy 2 and Bubba the worst of the 2. There are enough nagants out there that it ain't no crime to modernize a few, you will just wish you still had a collecter if you "upgrade" the only one you have. I think that a verry nice shooter could be done from a Nagant - if you are going to do a barell anyway, why not get a "scratch and sniff" cheapo re-barell,roller trigger, Good stock. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 GOB I'd like a roller-trigger. Where at?? Arc I don't want an LER type of scope. I read somewhere on the net different people had trouble till they filed out extra in the ATI stock. Do you have a link to Boyds? Do they sell Drag. type stocks for the Nagants?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's the RIA Sportsman http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Also, a review. http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2005/li...eauty/index.asp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) go all out on this, should be a great gun...don't worry about value, it can only go up, those were retardly mass produced and it doesn't sound like a mint "capture" gun that you would hang up....i'd really like to see this when its done =D Edited March 5, 2008 by Vultite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shellshock1918 1 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 go all out on this, should be a great gun...don't worry about value, it can only go up, those were retardly mass produced and it doesn't sound like a mint "capture" gun that you would hang up....i'd really like to see this when its done =D No, it won't go up if you were to permanently butcher it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 i would leave it with stock wood. Get the bolt handle worked, and put a posp on the thing they make a mount for it i believe midway sells it.http://www.cheesepatrol.com/images/mosin/mosinposp1.jpg i am going to do this same thing as well as another with the PU scope. i have already gone the ATI route and believe me you will be disapointed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...%3Doff%26sa%3DN found this, will give you a better idea what im talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vinny_land 0 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 why dont you get one of these and make it a scout rifle? http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforum...ailibility.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Checked with Boyds, They stopped making the Nagant stocks and are only focusing on M1s apparently as of 9/2007. I'll get the ATI and attempt to FLOAT it. I don't like the LongEyeRelief scopes. I did check the Darryl mount. It is WAS better than the $12 E***/or $18 GB mounts as far as sturdy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Checked with Boyds, They stopped making the Nagant stocks and are only focusing on M1s apparently as of 9/2007. I'll get the ATI and attempt to FLOAT it. Thats a bummer, I wanted to get one myself. Their stocks are nice, i bought their older style 10/22 thumbhole and I love it. They might consider taking it off their website... Hey, if you are lucky you will get one that isn't bent. They are light and comfortable. You should definitely group it with the original stock first though, if there is a difference you may still want to float it. I used a dowel wrapped in sandpaper to grind mine out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'm building an M38 sporter for my son. I got the bolt done by "The Bolt Guy", James Robert (jhrobertATcharterDOTnet. Excellent work! Has anyone posted a "How To" on the ATI stock? I'd like to make this the best rifle possible. By the way, I purchased a complete barreled receiver, not a complete gun, so no collector's loss here. . . The roller trigger is the Huber Conceptes "Mosin-Nagant Anti-friction Ball Trigger. 50% more than I paid for the barreled receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'm building an M38 sporter for my son. I got the bolt done by "The Bolt Guy", James Robert (jhrobertATcharterDOTnet. Excellent work! Has anyone posted a "How To" on the ATI stock? I'd like to make this the best rifle possible. By the way, I purchased a complete barreled receiver, not a complete gun, so no collector's loss here. . . The roller trigger is the Huber Conceptes "Mosin-Nagant Anti-friction Ball Trigger. 50% more than I paid for the barreled receiver. There is a guy on surplusrifleforum under mosins who came up with a very similiar DIY fix that pretty much fixes the trigger and allows for # adjustment. Its minus the little ball. Says its $.02 fix using allenkey recessed type of key screw. Looks good too. I may still do the Hubert thing $75 or use SurplusTravis on same site to modify my trigger for $25. I heard mixed (like ArcFault) on the ATI stock. For $50 +/- and getting rid of my CRACKED and broken EYE SORE wood for a newer style stock is work a shot. I saw a pic on how to BED the action to help (3 spots). Its not hard to do that MOD. Wonder if I can mod the ATI (cut it down) and add a FOREARM from an AK/Cetme?? That would be cool as cash if I could merge the plastics close enough. (always thinking) I saw a few sources for the bent-bolt handle. Usually $50 or so and done. Calling my local FFL today and see if its in yet from NC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Got tracking number from NC. Rifle delivered today at 2:45pm via UPS. Yeah. Called dealer and they have it. Picking up tommorrow morning. Should have pics up by mid-afternoon. I'll post my project here to let you SEE how it goes. Edited March 6, 2008 by YouWontHearItComing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Ok. Got it. 1943 Izhevsk. All matching numbers. Good bore. Excellent WOOD (not laminate) no repairs I can see. Will put pic up later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taurussvt 0 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) I'm gonna go a little off topic here. I have a model 44 that I bought about a month ago. After cleaning out all the ear wax that the thing was covered in I took it to the range and fired three shots with the thing at a can and they were all too high. I later noticed that the thing was set to 200 meters. I took it to the range yesterday, set at 100 meters and the shots were still too high. This is a 25 yard range BTW. I'm guessing that I had 2 problems with the thing yesterday. The first thing is maybe this is a 6 O clock gun? and maybe 25 yards is too damn close to be firing the gun. I'd appreciate any input from somebody who has a nagant. BTW, it groups 1/2" from the standing position at 25 yards and I'm not a very good shot. I'm sure if I bagged the thing I could get it to shoot 1/4" at that distance. This is probably the most consistent rifle I've ever shot. It just shoots to frickin' high for me. This thing will out shoot my saiga any day. Edited March 10, 2008 by taurussvt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Have not shot mine yet. I have an open field. My Bro-In-Law said his shot HIGH also. He then lost his front site and jimmy-rigged a replacement. Might be the distance. they DO loop UP then down. Let you know how I fair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm gonna go a little off topic here. I have a model 44 that I bought about a month ago. After cleaning out all the ear wax that the thing was covered in I took it to the range and fired three shots with the thing at a can and they were all too high. I later noticed that the thing was set to 200 meters. I took it to the range yesterday, set at 100 meters and the shots were still too high. This is a 25 yard range BTW. I'm guessing that I had 2 problems with the thing yesterday. The first thing is maybe this is a 6 O clock gun? and maybe 25 yards is too damn close to be firing the gun. I'd appreciate any input from somebody who has a nagant. BTW, it groups 1/2" from the standing position at 25 yards and I'm not a very good shot. I'm sure if I bagged the thing I could get it to shoot 1/4" at that distance. This is probably the most consistent rifle I've ever shot. It just shoots to frickin' high for me. This thing will out shoot my saiga any day. Two questions: How high was it shooting? Did you take the bayonet off? They always shoot f'ed up without the bayo. My M44 isn't as bad as my 91/30 though, that thing was high and to the left by feet @100 yds without the bayo. I put a mojo rear sight on it and this solved the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Okay got the pic here. Wood is GREAT with only the box with the SLASH on the BUTT and a scratch next to the receiver. This is a WOOD stock so I could sand and remove all this STAIN/SHELLAC and start over. For this I will just SAVE the stock. Tore it down and the BOLT also (4-5 parts). All Cosmo was off it already. I PATCHED the barrel with cleaner/oil a few times. I re-oiled everything and put back together. I will update the pics after I get the stock. got to go order some ammo now. Edited March 11, 2008 by YouWontHearItComing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Read all you can, then accurize based on what you learn. Unless it has specific collectors value...It a Mossin, how high do you think the value will get? If you bought this to be a shooter, then make it the best it can be. Gees, this forum was built on bastardizing Saiga's...what other answer did you think I'd come up with. Do you want to shoot it, or look at it like art. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taurussvt 0 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I'm gonna go a little off topic here. I have a model 44 that I bought about a month ago. After cleaning out all the ear wax that the thing was covered in I took it to the range and fired three shots with the thing at a can and they were all too high. I later noticed that the thing was set to 200 meters. I took it to the range yesterday, set at 100 meters and the shots were still too high. This is a 25 yard range BTW. I'm guessing that I had 2 problems with the thing yesterday. The first thing is maybe this is a 6 O clock gun? and maybe 25 yards is too damn close to be firing the gun. I'd appreciate any input from somebody who has a nagant. BTW, it groups 1/2" from the standing position at 25 yards and I'm not a very good shot. I'm sure if I bagged the thing I could get it to shoot 1/4" at that distance. This is probably the most consistent rifle I've ever shot. It just shoots to frickin' high for me. This thing will out shoot my saiga any day. Two questions: How high was it shooting? Did you take the bayonet off? They always shoot f'ed up without the bayo. My M44 isn't as bad as my 91/30 though, that thing was high and to the left by feet @100 yds without the bayo. I put a mojo rear sight on it and this solved the problem. I still have the bayonet on and had it extended when taking my shots. I was shotting from 25 years away and I'd say the thing had a POI about 4-5" above my POA. The thing grouped really nice so I'm not sure what's going on. The front sight looks like it's original and I can't see a way to adjust it other than windage. I made sure the rear sight was set for 100M too. I'm trying to plan a trip to PA (America) so I can mess around with all the guns. I want to try this thing at a distance somewhat closer to what the sights are made for. Just to add, I have no idea about the ammo I've been running through it. I bought a bag of it with the gun for $15.00 I believe it was about 60 rounds. The cases are all dented in the same way below the neck and I'd have to guess that they're hand loads. I have no idea how much powed is in them or the bullet weight. That's all I know is that they're very consistent. I also don't know if they're corrosive so I've been treating them like they are. When I get the gun home I give it a good douching before I put it away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 6500>>Mine is a WALLHANGER (meaning its nice). However the barrell is good/bore is sharp. Has the Accuracy stamp. B.U.T.: Already disassembled twice. Already sanded down the sear a little tiny bit to help reduce trigger pull. Already sanded down the stock to WOOD. Will be lopping off the front extension piece when I dig out my coping saw. The action is SMOOTH and trigger is tight with NO PLAY. Decided to not due the ATI plastic stock (Arc) and it probably would be easier and CHEAPER just to hack up my original wood. (original extra stocks on Ebay for $20, so what the hell.) Will be painting the stock flat black (whats left of it) and sanding between coats then covering with semi-gloss poly to protect the paint. Plan on bedding the barrel per original russian drawings I seen on the web. Will be cutting and lapping and crowning the barrel down to 22" from 28" Ordering a J-Tac Compensator which is 14/1 LHT and having the bolt handle (bend) done soon. Will have pics of the sanded stock shortly (still fiddling) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Ok. Here is before paint pic. Then after 1st coat. Everything LEFT of the BLACK will be cut off the stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
taurussvt 0 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 It's not bad at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motopilot1 37 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 have you thought of a texture finish, such as the springfield m1as have just a thought. who are you going to have do your bolt? i have sent 2 out and am waiting for them to come back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) After the coast FLASHED off you could still see the NICE grain. It looks REAL good in person. I did another coat and went to bed. TN guns has bolts bent for $49. There a guy on GB who does it for $39 (machine shop guy). GB guys are nicely polished up. Have not seen TN guns version yet. After I do afew more coats I'm gonna hit with the Satin Clear Thane' Moto>> Thought of those finishes and even looked at the PAINT. Krylon makes aLOT of options and colors. They have marb-lized and textured. They now even sell FLAT camo paint. One is flat black and one is OD green. Supposed to match camo colors. I want to do the butt plate in something (removed when I painted). Then I was thinking Hi-Temp Black for that and put a slip-on rubber BLACK cover over the butt. Suggestions for the barrel, receiver, and trigger areas??? Should I just stick with 1200' Krylon BBQ Flat Black?? Home D sells paint in different colors good to I think 400'. Be neat to go TAN barrel/receiver parts with black stock?? ?? Can't decide between the ATI Scope mount $36 and RockSolid Inc. mount. $99.?? Next is barrell cutting. Alot of people are saying go 24 inches not 22-21" for best accuracy, what is your opinion?? I shortened the look of the stock to make the rifle look smaller. The Saiga 308 in 16" is supposedly just as good INB than the 21" as I read it on here? Edited March 13, 2008 by YouWontHearItComing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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