New 7.62 with 10 and 30 round mags

[30round 0]

I just picked up a NIB Saiga 7.62 with a 16 inch barrel today. Included with the gun was a factory 10 round plastic mag and a factory 30 round steel mag. I have read numerous post here about 922r compliance issues and mentioned this to the dealer. He insists that it is ok to run the 30 round mag in the gun as is. I went to the ATF website and read over the 922r regs and I don't see any mention of magazine capacity. Has anybody ever contacted the ATF to get an answer on this issue?

 

Thanks.

Eric

[nalioth 405]

There is no such thing as a factory 30 round mag for a Saiga.

 

Your Saiga was imported as a "sporting rifle". The lawmakers have said that anything that can use a magazine holding 10 rounds or more to be "un sporting".

 

Therefore, if you insert an "unsporting" magazine (capacity of 11 or more) in your imported "sporting rifle", you'll need to make it compliant under 922r.

 

You see, this is a Saiga for the rest of the world, but it can't be imprted here because it looks evil (it has a protruding pistol grip and a folding buttstock)

 

Here is another Saiga that isn't imported.

 

We get these "safe" rifles and shotguns (safe in appearance only) and when you use "evil" accessories with them, you run afoul of the law.

 

Here is a page you can look at all that is produced under the "Saiga" brand and what all we are missing out on in the USA

http://world.guns.ru/civil/civ011-e.htm

Edited April 8, 2008 by nalioth

[30round 0]

There is no such thing as a factory 30 round mag for a Saiga.

 

Your Saiga was imported as a "sporting rifle". The lawmakers have said that anything that can use a magazine holding 10 rounds or more to be "un sporting".

 

Therefore, if you insert an "unsporting" magazine (capacity of 11 or more) in your imported "sporting rifle", you'll need to make it compliant under 922r.

 

 

I will call the mag generic at this point. I have looked through many of the posts here and many of the 922r post seem to repeat the same thing. Some of them start out with "I am not a lawyer but....." It seems like there has been a lot of interpretation with out confirmation. I still can not find the legal language that prohibits somebody from running a hi cap mag in the unmodified Saiga (sporting rifle). I will continue searching because I would really like to pin this down. If somebody can post the specific legal language and a link to the source I would very much appreciate it. I would like to take the info down to my dealer to set him straight if he is wrong. I know he had one more rifle for sale with hi cap mag included and I am sure he has sold them to plenty of others.

[nalioth 405]

At one time I saw a letter from the alpahbet gang on the Mini-14 and "sporting purpose"and 'non sporting magazines' (same as we're discusing here) . Unfortunately, I didn't save it or bookmark it and can't find it again.

 

Do you want to be the person that finds out 'the hard way'?

 

 

$40 bucks gets you a US made handguard

 

$15 bucks gets you a US made gas piston.

 

Your dealer will not go to jail at all. The person who "assembles" it, will (if anyone goes, that is). This is the same thing as speed limits. Yes, the car will exceed them, but you're not penalized for having the capability, but showing the capability.

Edited April 8, 2008 by nalioth

[chupacabrah 0]

I'm pretty sure he's just saying he wants to see the law where it specifically prohibits the non sporting hi cap (/standard capacity) magazines.

 

 

I'll just take everyone's word for it, being it says the same thing everywhere i've read, not going to take the chance. besides, the pistol grip configuration is WAY better

[Vultite 57]

Nalioth is spot on, #1 they leave it "open" to interpetation b/c its at the ATF's discretion to determine what is "unsporting" . If you read the whole "offical" letter found somewhere on here and other various forums, They classifiy "hi cap" mags "unsporting" and using them in a sporting rifle also makes them "unsporting" which would mean you need to meet compliance or get screwed. If you want to test the system, they are looking for people to make a example of, especially everytime a national news service airs a shooting crime or spree besides, if RAA could, they would sell everything with hi cap mags if they could show a extra profit, but they don't....

 

 

PS: if i'm wrong, then i guess i don't have the lawyer skills to interpet either lol

Edited April 9, 2008 by Vultite

[The-Beast 0]

Just do the conversion, it's cheap and makes your gun look better, and you'll need a bullet guide if you do figure if you you're allowed to use that Hi-cap mag in your state (you'll develop feed issues with it). Im gonna bring that same 30rd mag that came with the gun back to the place i bought my gun and have them trade in the 30rd mag that came with my gun, for a factory Saiga 10 round mag.

 

This Forum is great, and quick responses.

[micah360 6]

They make factory Saiga 30 round mags. They are polymer and resemble the Polish polymer 7.62x39 mags.

 

Dodge had a bunch for sale awhile back.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=22518

[terrace_mountain 0]

For just one second let's talk about a rifle other than a Saiga, the GP WASR-10, assembled by Century Arms and easily available at your local Dunham's sporting goods store. This a Romanian AKM that is assembled from parts kits. Originally, all the parts are foreign and the reciever is machined so that the magazine well will only accept single stack 10 round magazines (you can purchase this rifle as well, no problem). It is then drilled out to accept standard 30 round AKM magazines. But wait, there's more. A US made fire control group is installed. The pistol grip is changed from foreign made to US made. The muzzle brake is welded on.

 

I doubt that they go through all the trouble of changing parts and gunsmithing for fun. They do it to stay compliant with 922r. A foreign made semi-automatic rifle that accepts more than 10 rounds is ILLEGAL.

[mini14jac 1]

Edited April 9, 2008 by mini14jac

[mini14jac 1]

Reading all of that, it would appear that the Gov. uses 922r, 27 CFR, some of the expired AWB ban, and probably some rules they make up, to do whatever they want.

 

My advice would be to replace all the parts you can with U.S. parts, and don't commit any gun crimes.

[30round 0]

[mini14jac 1]

I don't think all of the importers would be spending the money putting U.S. parts in the guns if they didn't have to.

Century and the others want to stay in business, and stay legal.

 

I think you'll find that the general consensus on this board is that the gun needs to meet the U.S. parts count to use a high cap mag.

 

That's the route I took.

[saiga1943 0]

At one time I saw a letter from the alpahbet gang on the Mini-14 and "sporting purpose"and 'non sporting magazines' (same as we're discusing here) . Unfortunately, I didn't save it or bookmark it and can't find it again.

 

Do you want to be the person that finds out 'the hard way'?

 

 

$40 bucks gets you a US made handguard

 

$15 bucks gets you a US made gas piston.

 

Your dealer will not go to jail at all. The person who "assembles" it, will (if anyone goes, that is). This is the same thing as speed limits. Yes, the car will exceed them, but you're not penalized for having the capability, but showing the capability.

 

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Where can I buy a US made piston for my OTC stock Saiga 7.62x39 so that I can use the 20 round US made polymer mag?

 

Thanks

saiga1943

[taurussvt 0]

At one time I saw a letter from the alpahbet gang on the Mini-14 and "sporting purpose"and 'non sporting magazines' (same as we're discusing here) . Unfortunately, I didn't save it or bookmark it and can't find it again.

 

Do you want to be the person that finds out 'the hard way'?

 

 

$40 bucks gets you a US made handguard

 

$15 bucks gets you a US made gas piston.

 

Your dealer will not go to jail at all. The person who "assembles" it, will (if anyone goes, that is). This is the same thing as speed limits. Yes, the car will exceed them, but you're not penalized for having the capability, but showing the capability.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where can I buy a US made piston for my OTC stock Saiga 7.62x39 so that I can use the 20 round US made polymer mag?

 

Thanks

saiga1943

http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=a01e...9f-b02ed1117ac9

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

There's always someone tying to re-invent the wheel.

 

I guess 99% of the people on all these gun forums, and all the people who are responsible for enforcing these stupid laws, could be wrong....not likely.

 

It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

And nalioth there are no such thing as "steel" factory 30 rd Saiga mags but there are and used to even be imported polymer ones made for the Saiga with built in bullet guide and manufactured by Izhmash.

[Vultite 57]

There's always someone tying to re-invent the wheel.

 

I guess 99% of the people on all these gun forums, and all the people who are responsible for enforcing these stupid laws, could be wrong....not likely.

 

It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

And nalioth there are no such thing as "steel" factory 30 rd Saiga mags but there are and used to even be imported polymer ones made for the Saiga with built in bullet guide and manufactured by Izhmash.

there is, rusmilitary has them, you can have them imported for a ton of cash, and its soooo not worth it (65 per mag plus international shipping fees) btw, i've seen people refer to the tapco gas piston as "match grade" are they smoking shit?

Edited May 1, 2008 by Vultite

[nalioth 405]

btw, i've seen people refer to the tapco gas piston as "match grade" are they smoking shit?

Since the AK was never ever intended to be a "match rifle", yes.