Tokageko 8 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Has anyone else had this happen? Mine developed a cack near the piston rod a while ago, but it has still been shooting ok. Any ideas what causes this? I probably wouldn't even ask if EAA weren't getting out of the Saiga business. All the best, Tokageko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Wow, never heard of that, you may want to have a gunsmith check it out to make sure it won't fly apart someday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrobb45 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Got a picture? jrobb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I've heard of two cases of Saigas with cracks in the bolt or bolt carrier. Both cases were/are rare and were fixed by EAA sending them a new part. I'd call EAA ASAP about getting a replacement part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Talked to EAA about it, they want me to send the whole gun to them, paying shipping both ways... and think it will take a month. I broke down and just ordered a bolt carrier from their website. As far as a picture... I'll see if I can find the digital camera. I did also show it to a gunsmith that I trust. He says that it doesn't look like it will get any worse than it is, but that it would be safest to replace it anyway. Another question though: The gas piston seems to be held in there pretty tightly, between being threaded and pinned. As such it doesn't move at all in relation to the bolt carrier. I've heard from others that AK 47s need to have a little bit of play in the piston/rod. Our pre-ban Norinco (or was it Polytech?) definately has a loose fit between the piston rod and the bolt carrier. Could anyone explain this? Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 It seem sthe russian stuff is pretty accuratly made. The chinese needs the play. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 the chinese need play but they are built a hell of a lot better than the others! better machining and finish, inside and out. besides, it doesn't hurt a bit to have a little play in the piston. insures that no matter what the carrier is doing that piston is going to stay straight in the tube. and in this rare case, it seems the carrier wanted to do something that the piston wasn't able to do b/c it was bound tight to the carrier. it seems that maybe the rails in the receiver were not perfectly inline putting a bind on the piston and the carrier. or maybe even an improperly done conversion can cause the carrier to put a bind on the piston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 another thought to add if the carrier made contact with the rear sight block or if the piston hit the gas block then that may be enough shock to crack the carrier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 That's a possibility I geuss. In lew of a picture (#&@*% camera), allow me to describe the crack. It is on the left side of the bolt carrier, running fron the edge of the hole where it was pinned in place, forward to the edge of the opening the piston rod is threaded into. The metal around that part of the bolt carrier seems to have expanded slgihtly, meaning that there are visible holes in the surface of the carrier (where the pin goes through), when it was perfectly flat before. The crack isn't very wide. Maybe a few thosandths at the front (nearest the piston rod), tapering down in width until it meets the pin hole. I hope that is illustrative enough, but I will also continue fiddling with the camera. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Which rifle do you have? The .308 or 7.62 russian? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well.... it's a.... hmmm... 308? maybe? hehehe, kidding It's definately a 308. I had a 7.62 russian... for about a day. Got a really good price on it. Impulse buys... even the best of us have our off days. ; ) Then I traded it as part of the payment on a Baby Eagle in 40 S&W, which i absolutely adore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I was just curious which one had the cracked carrier. I will inspect mine closely. BTW my other is a SAR1 in 7.62 Russian, one of the funnest guns to shoot, next to a full auto 50. I just installed the adjustable trigger from Red Star in it and can't wait to try her out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I've heard a lot of good things about the Red Star Arms triggers. Honestly, they'd be my choice for an AK build, or modifications. They used to have bolt hold open followers for the AK 47 mags didn't they? With the addition of one of their extended safety levers, that would cure all of my personal complaints about the AK weapons in general. I will also agree, they are damned fun to shoot. We have a pre-ban Norinco, fixed synthetic stock, and that thing is great! Of course, I'm a sucker for shooting anything really. All of them are fun to me. I've been looking at my Saiga 308 and I'm still not sure how the carrier developed a crack. It doesn't seem to be rubbing or hitting against anything. Oh well. Hopefully I'll have a new part in the next week or so and everything will be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
napoleon 0 Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 As a welder by trade, I would try to TiG Weld it myself if it happened to me. Then file it smooth. Maybe even grind into the crack a bit to open it up to get penetration when welding it. Maybe clamping it tight before hand would help keep it in spec for the repair. Just an thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Update: EAA sent me an email telling me that my new bolt carrier is on the way. Wish they sold the bolts online, would have gotten one of those too. Oh well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrobb45 0 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 That's nonsense that they expect you to pay shipping both ways. I've had to send guns back to the factory(not EAA) and I've had to pay the return shipping, but the manufacturer always paid the shipping back to me. jrobb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 I agree, doesn't make sense to pay a third of the price of the rifle to wait for them to fix it. When I've had to send other guns back to the factory (not EAA), the dealers have usually been willing to pay the shipping, if it was a gun I bought from him/her, of course. That's why they get my business, and why I point other people to them: Support your local FFLs!!! OK, don't know where that bit of enthusiasm came from, but you get the picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 my bet: EAA knows that since they dropped Saiga importation, they are going to stick it to the customer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TexasAg 0 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Tokageko....mine had same crack in carrier. EAA replaced it promptly. Noticed it when cleaning, after a range session. Gents make sure you check your carriers....fyi... AKs take a licking and keep on ticking! TexasAg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 another thought to add if the carrier made contact with the rear sight block or if the piston hit the gas block then that may be enough shock to crack the carrier. Sort of my thoughts. This thread freaked me out so BAD, that I had to consider my .308 Saiga... I found no problems, but I could see that one of the holes that is at the front of the carrier (where the piston is screwed in) had either some "flash" or a rise from cratering when the hole was made, that showed silvered drag marks around it -obviously from a little contact wear. I (being freaked out, as noted) draw filed, stoned and jeweler polished the last 3/4" of the carrier (where the holes are) and, the mouth of the carrier. All is very slick now, nothing to easily snag the carrier during firing. I'm better. Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 If I'm not mistaken, the .308 uses 100% standard '74 bolt carriers. If it does (anyone care to do a fit test if they own another AK) then it's nothing to worry about because easy replacements are everywhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I have a Saiga 308 and a Romainian SAR1(7.62 x 39). Physcially the carrier from the SAR works without the bolt. However the hole for the bolt is larger in the SAR than it is in the SAIGA. I tried putting the bolt from the Saiga in but it keeps falling out. Don't have exact measurements sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I noticed the same thing. I've been tryng to find an AK 74 for a reasonable price, but they seem to be pretty scarce (as compared to other AK's). I'd love to see one just to compare the two. Actually, I did take a look at my Saiga 223 when I got it, it appears to use the same bolt carrier as the 308. Haven't tried to see if one fits in the other, but I don't know why they wouldn't. I'll post again after I've tried that if anyone is interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I'm interested, of course. I seem to remember someone replacing a Saiga (7.62 or 5.56) bc with one out of a Galil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShKAS 0 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The bolt carrier on my SAR-2 has two deep holes drilled in the rear of it, on either side of the tang. I would guess that this is done to lighten it, because of the lower recoil of the 5.45 round. If this is true, I wouldn't want to use this carrier in a .308. Do other '74 carriers have these holes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Well, I just tried it, and they interchange completely. The bolt from the 308 fit in the 223 bolt carrier and vice versa. The bolt carrier from the 223 (with the bolt from the 308) fit in the 308, and vice versa. The 308 bolt projects a bit more on the bottom, so it won't fit into any gun except the 308, regardless of bolt carrier. ShKAS: the weight of the bolt carrier should not make a difference as long as a 308 bolt (different locking lugs) is still being used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I think SAR-2s are rigged 5.56 guns. I recall someone saying they were altered to be able to handle the 5.45 and weren't originally built that way. That could account for the modifications. Tokageko, thats adds +1 to the '74 bc theory... Now we just need someone with a '74 bc and/or kit and a Saiga rifle they can try the pieces in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I think SAR-2s are rigged 5.56 guns. I recall someone saying they were altered to be able to handle the 5.45 and weren't originally built that way. That could account for the modifications. I heard it the other way around... That the .223 Sar-3 was a "motherfied" (freind's term) Sar-2 (5.45x39mm). My Romak II (pre-922r Roamnian "thumbhole" AK-74 -the Romanians retained the AKM pattern) gives this impression upon close examination. FWIW, Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Correction on the locking lugs: Upon closer examination it appears that the only difference between the 308 and 223 bolts is the addition of the third locking lug on the 308 (and the size of the bolt face of course). Rook: I think I'm nearly convinced (about the 74 BC theory). I also find myself wondering if the saiga 7.62 bolt carrier also interchanges with the others. It would make sense if it did. Fewer different parts to make and all. Lollygagger: Thanks for the new word. I'm always looking to expand my vocabulary. I know a lot of people who are going to like that one. My personal favorite though, has to be: "Afro-engineered". Not racist or anything. I just thought it sounded funny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 My personal favorite though, has to be: "Afro-engineered". Not racist or anything. I just thought it sounded funny. My grandfather (WWII vet) always used a similar term, but it involved an N word followed by "rigged". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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