Machine Gun Permit DENIED!!

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Meet with my local Sheriff yesterday and he said per NCGS 14-409 I didn't qualify for a MG Permit. I proved to him via provision number one of NCGS 14-409 that my tax year '07 filings that I am an established small business owner...he said he didn't care if I was selling loose diamonds on my coffee table. He "felt" that a MG was not needed. As well as provision number five states that scientific or experimental purposes was also a commendable route. He stated that the BATFE needed to authorize me as a reseacher. After speaking with a previous examiner of my past Form 4's she said they do nothing of the such...."we regulate firearms not research of them," were her words.

 

Now, if I have NFA items that I used NCGS 14-288.8, section ( part (4) as a reason under block 15 and the form was approved that would mean that the ATF accepts my reasoning. This section states Inventors, designers, ordanance consultants and researchers are valid forms of possession. Then why not now?

 

NCGS 14-409 under sections 1 and 5 I have meet the criteria. Not only that but he had me get a letter from my Commanding Officer allowing me to purchase an automatic weapon....which I did get without a hic-up.

 

Pissed, angry and looking for assistance....and legal help...I'd like to sue the county and the Sheriff!!

[frick 3]

Too bad brother.

 

We had a case here in PA, where the county sheriff would not sign the paperwork for two residents, even though they had no prohibitions not to have them, and there are no local laws that would prevent it.

 

Bottom line, they sued, and lost.

 

The basis was, that just being a public official, did not mean that he was required to sign off on paperwork for a machine gun transfer, if he did not want to, for any reason.

 

Now, I could see suing based on an interruption of interstate commerce, denying you your right to own, and conduct business across state lines, in federal court, or finding someone else who qualifies as your CLEO, in the case of my transfer, they wanted the official at the level closest to me, IE, my township police chief, who, theoretically, has the most knowledge about ME, and not a county sheriff, who sees me every five years for a carry permit renewal.

 

YOU yourself can file a case in federal court, as many handicapped activists have done using the ADA, and, the county is going to be spending money to defend him, never a popular issue.

 

Or, start a petition to have him tossed from office for malfeasance, it only take a petition signed by 5% of the eligible voters in our state, and perhaps only the fear of it happening, may change his mind.

 

In any case, good luck to you.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

I emailed Robert A. Levy's (CATO Institute) law firm regarding this matter also stating to file a case in state court arguing that the sheriff's ability to deny form 4s for "his feelings" is an arbitrary and capricious licensing scheme as is prohibited in the DC vs. heller case. Throwing in some language insisting that the 2nd amendment applies to the states equally and that he sheriff has violated equal protection because other sheriff's have signed off on similar forms for other citizens of the state.

 

Of course taking on the NFA rule allowing a sheriff to deny for any reason and simultaneously attempting to get the 2nd amendment incorporated will be quite a feat and probably wont be cheap... but it just might work in a charity case??

 

Just for those that arn't up to speed Mr Levy was instrumental in the D.C. Gun Ban case not to long ago.

Edited October 23, 2008 by MCASgt New River

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Trust Route?

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Trust Route?

 

Good for EVERYTHING but a MG.

 

I found a 81mm Mortar Tube fully functioning and for sell...only $3,400 on Sturmgewehr Classifieds. And imagine I wouldn't need to tell him a DAM THING because it falls under the DD classification and not Machine Gun.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=112750

[Vultite 57]

well sheriffs are touchy fuckers, not much you can do, any kinda legal letter from a firm will just make your case worse in his eyes, sueing is a waste of money, if your that mad about it i'd campaign against him next time he's up for re-election (and by that i mean smear his ass all over town about his assholeness) OR you can move elsewhere to a friendlier area

Edited October 23, 2008 by Vultite

[rssfndly 14]

Meet with my local Sheriff yesterday and he said per NCGS 14-409 I didn't qualify for a MG Permit. I proved to him via provision number one of NCGS 14-409 that my tax year '07 filings that I am an established small business owner...he said he didn't care if I was selling loose diamonds on my coffee table. He "felt" that a MG was not needed. As well as provision number five states that scientific or experimental purposes was also a commendable route. He stated that the BATFE needed to authorize me as a reseacher. After speaking with a previous examiner of my past Form 4's she said they do nothing of the such...."we regulate firearms not research of them," were her words.

 

Now, if I have NFA items that I used NCGS 14-288.8, section ( part (4) as a reason under block 15 and the form was approved that would mean that the ATF accepts my reasoning. This section states Inventors, designers, ordanance consultants and researchers are valid forms of possession. Then why not now?

 

NCGS 14-409 under sections 1 and 5 I have meet the criteria. Not only that but he had me get a letter from my Commanding Officer allowing me to purchase an automatic weapon....which I did get without a hic-up.

 

Pissed, angry and looking for assistance....and legal help...I'd like to sue the county and the Sheriff!!

What type of business do you have, do have an FFL? I take it you live in a County area and can't use a different CLEO? I think that really sucks that the CLEO can make or brake a permit just because he or she felt a MG is unnecessary. That basically means they can choose which rights we can have. If you have no criminal record and can prove you qualify they should have to sign. Plus your CO gave you a letter allowing you to purchase. I had an issue with the City I live in about having an FFL in my residential area. The City stated that firearms could not be sold and stored where I lived. I found this out 2 days before the ATF came out to inspect before issuing my license. I showed them the document and they said they would give me 5 days to find another location. The next day they called me back and said Oregon State law prohibits City and County governments from prohibiting storage and sale of firearms. The ATF was out 2 days later and approved my FFL. The CLEO did sign my app for the FFL so that was never an issue. If you had an FFL with an SOT maybe the ATF could help. Good luck

[Azrial 1,091]

There are other persons that the BATF will accept as signers besides the Sheriff. Do you live inside the municipal limits of a town? If so the Chief of Police can sign as well.

 

I do not have much time to chat now, getting ready to do a century in the morning on my bicycle.

 

Maybe this can be fixed!

[kresk 10,063]

Here's a link as to who else other than a CLEO can sign for Class III: http://www.triplebreakproducts.com/FAQ/nfa...ho_can_sign.htm

[uzitiger 193]

well sheriffs are touchy fuckers, not much you can do, any kinda legal letter from a firm will just make your case worse in his eyes, sueing is a waste of money, if your that mad about it i'd campaign against him next time he's up for re-election (and by that i mean smear his ass all over town about his assholeness) OR you can move elsewhere to a friendlier area

 

That's true about sherrifs. The one in Hamilton County, Ohio (Cincinnati) takes his time to approve CCW permits so most residents go to the adjacent counties to get their CCW permits as Ohio law allows to bypass him. He's one sherrif you don't want to mess with. Trouble is if you sue in federal court you may end up with a Carter or Clinton appointee who will be an anti gun asshole.

[uzitiger 193]

well sheriffs are touchy fuckers, not much you can do, any kinda legal letter from a firm will just make your case worse in his eyes, sueing is a waste of money, if your that mad about it i'd campaign against him next time he's up for re-election (and by that i mean smear his ass all over town about his assholeness) OR you can move elsewhere to a friendlier area

 

That's true about sherrifs. The one in Hamilton County, Ohio (Cincinnati) takes his time to approve CCW permits so most residents go to the adjacent counties to get their CCW permits as Ohio law allows to bypass him. He's one sherrif you don't want to mess with. Trouble is if you sue in federal court you may end up with a Carter or Clinton appointee who will be an anti gun asshole.

[Shotty091 6]

Move to Texas.

[rangerdavid 6]

hey, Mike, that sheriff in Onslow is a dick, I tried to tell you, but I guess I didn't even realize how big an ass he could really be.

 

I honestly cant believe he would deny you the sign off, what a crock of shit............ sorry man. Wish I could help you with this one.

 

Sounds like an abuse of discretion to me. I wonder if he has ever approved any application. If not, and he has denied all, then he is individually trying to rewrite the federal firearms laws according to his own beliefs, which he can't do. I don't know man. Anyway, sorry this happened. No one deserved it more than you.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

So you're qualified in the eyes of "Uncle Sam" to have and use a select fire weapon to fight for this country. But this clown stops you from personally owning one because he feels it's not needed? Sounds like an asshole.

[HogBlaster 0]

I'd give Alan Gura a Call He's Helped me out of a East Coast NFA problem. Affordable also

[MikeD 541]

Mike, you can beat this and get HIS signature. First he is envoking a judicial action on you by making this decision of his. That is without jury or representation for you. And the big thing... he is in an executive position, not a judical one. It is illegal for him to even try to be a judical offical. The signature is not for HIS personal approval, even if his dumb ass thinks it is. Your federal, state and local laws say you can have it. It is his job to enforce the laws, not make them or rule on them. His signature is ONLY to show he knows you have it. He has no right or power to make a ruleing against you owning it or to not give the signature. It is his job to sign it as it is his job to enforce the law and it is legal. If I was you I would nicely explain all this to his dumb ass, tell him you will do what ever it takes to get his personal signature even if it mean suing the piss out of him and the department. All those court cost won't look good when he is up for re-election, especially considering it was caused by him breaking the law and his oth by deniing you your right and privlegde bestowed by the state and federal government. And last to kindly sign the fucking paper!

[G O B 3,516]

RUN FOR SHERIFF

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

All those court cost won't look good when he is up for re-election, especially considering it was caused by him breaking the law and his oth by deniing you your right and privlegde bestowed by the state and federal government. And last to kindly sign the fucking paper!

 

 

Mike,

 

I see your passion is as deep as mine and I'm sure everyone else here when it comes to the 2A rights but the fact of the matter is I don't posses the funds to fight the County or Sheriff personally.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

I'd give Alan Gura a Call He's Helped me out of a East Coast NFA problem. Affordable also

 

Thanks for the tip. I email him via his website and hopfully I can get somewhere in this matter with his help.

[VanKiller 322]

Mike, in NC we used to be able to appeal the local sheriff's feelings to the Judge in the county. It won't hurt to try and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the lawyer is gonna be. Go thru the same steps as appealing a denied pistol purchase permit. Good Luck...........Tom(VK)

[chevymann 13]

I may be wrong and I hope I am, but I was told by an old FFL holder in NC that the local sheriff had the ultimate authority regarding pistol permits, CCW, SBS, SBR, silencers and MG's. I was told the local sheriff could refuse anyone any of the above simply because he didn't want them in his county. I also was told that he could object to a person applying for a FFL and prevent the, from selling in his county.

 

Again, this is just what I was told. I have a friend in politics in Raleigh. I will see if he knows for sure or can find out, as I'm sure the local officers probably dont know weapons law that thoughly.

[VanKiller 322]

The local Sheriff can make it rough on you in NC..........but he can be straightened out.....I had my compliance officer stop in on one sheriff in the next county and straighten him out on the difference in Federal law and sheriff's "Feelings".........VK

 

 

I may be wrong and I hope I am, but I was told by an old FFL holder in NC that the local sheriff had the ultimate authority regarding pistol permits, CCW, SBS, SBR, silencers and MG's. I was told the local sheriff could refuse anyone any of the above simply because he didn't want them in his county. I also was told that he could object to a person applying for a FFL and prevent the, from selling in his county.

 

Again, this is just what I was told. I have a friend in politics in Raleigh. I will see if he knows for sure or can find out, as I'm sure the local officers probably dont know weapons law that thoughly.

[jaywalker 1]

Three words... Revocable Living Trust.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Three words... Revocable Living Trust.

 

Three words....

 

READ the ENTIRE THREAD.

 

especially Post #5

Edited October 25, 2008 by MCASgt New River

[jaywalker 1]

My mistake. I did kind of skim through this thread. Oh well, at least I'm not a smart ass.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

...you got me...I'm a smart ass!!

 

This was not a personal attack on you, please don't make an assumption based off a simple statement you yourself posed to me.

[jaywalker 1]

Again, my mistake. I can sure be an asshole at times. I try not to be, and most of the time I'm not. I probably shouldn't post when I'm tired and already irritated. Sir, I hope you will accept my apology.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Cheers!!

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

[jaywalker 1]

I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope that one day, one way or another, you are able to own a machine gun. I live in AZ and own a number of NFA items, and although I have not yet made the machine gun plunge, I've always enjoyed knowing that I could. I can only imagine that you are probably a little pissed.

Hang in there my friend. Lots of other cool firearms to collect!