Franky 2 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114092206 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Don't forget to watch the vids Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stiletto raggio 20 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 I bid on it. I was willing to give $300 for the two, considering the WM will be a nice collector's piece when they go out of business (soon). Not willing to pay more than $75 for a doorstop, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 What everyone seems to be forgetting, and what they are glossing over is the past history. Especially here. It is not the drum that is the problem, it is their crappy business practices by lying about the S-12, their "reliability service, and their competitors! Especially when they went after Tromix! What kind of idiotic, brand new firearms company goes after one of the leading experts on this weapon? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 What everyone seems to be forgetting, and what they are glossing over is the past history.Especially here. It is not the drum that is the problem, it is their crappy business practices by lying about the S-12, their "reliability service, and their competitors! Especially when they went after Tromix! What kind of idiotic, brand new firearms company goes after one of the leading experts on this weapon? +100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Amalgamated Asshats. Call them by their GIVEN name, the name given them by their customers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Your all giving these guys too much credit....their adds, opinions, and products really don't matter. If the product is shit, or the customer service is shit, sooner or later word gets around and they'll quietly vanish into the dark. The only reason that Tromix books up is Tony's reputation for quality and service....AA can bash all they want, it doesn't change things and just makes them look like jackasses to those who know the trueth. If they had a clue, there efforts would be better served in correcting issues, turning out the quality product that they probably have the ability to do if they put half the effort into that they do in bashing. All they're doing now is grasping at straws. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anymanusa 1 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I don't get it??? I watched the videos and read the GB auction... I don't see anything outlandish at all?? What are you mad at anyone about? The fact that they say there are variances in Saigas? I have 2 12's and the factory mag from one won't fit the other!! I don't have any problem believing that there are variations in the guns... am I missing something here? Both drums look like they would work well for any regular guy shooting (all of us semi-auto folks), and the metal drum looks bad to the bone. What am I missing in your thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chiroone 0 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I don't get it??? I watched the videos and read the GB auction... I don't see anything outlandish at all?? What are you mad at anyone about? The fact that they say there are variances in Saigas? I have 2 12's and the factory mag from one won't fit the other!! I don't have any problem believing that there are variations in the guns... am I missing something here? Both drums look like they would work well for any regular guy shooting (all of us semi-auto folks), and the metal drum looks bad to the bone. What am I missing in your thread? I am an ignorant newbie, but what I see is the differance in taking a file to the MD 20 drum and a few monents of your time VS a "$180 reliabilty service" to make the Wratimaker fit the "normal variances in Saigas" That seems to be the point that you may be missing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anymanusa 1 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I don't get it??? I watched the videos and read the GB auction... I don't see anything outlandish at all?? What are you mad at anyone about? The fact that they say there are variances in Saigas? I have 2 12's and the factory mag from one won't fit the other!! I don't have any problem believing that there are variations in the guns... am I missing something here? Both drums look like they would work well for any regular guy shooting (all of us semi-auto folks), and the metal drum looks bad to the bone. What am I missing in your thread? I am an ignorant newbie, but what I see is the differance in taking a file to the MD 20 drum and a few monents of your time VS a "$180 reliabilty service" to make the Wratimaker fit the "normal variances in Saigas" That seems to be the point that you may be missing. I didn't get that from any of the videos on the GB posting. I watched 3 of them, they seemed to use brand new guns right from the box for both mag tests... there is something else here, that can't be the reason for the complaining, I just ain't seein' it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mechsterbator 0 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) I don't get it??? I watched the videos and read the GB auction... I don't see anything outlandish at all?? What are you mad at anyone about? The fact that they say there are variances in Saigas? I have 2 12's and the factory mag from one won't fit the other!! I don't have any problem believing that there are variations in the guns... am I missing something here? Both drums look like they would work well for any regular guy shooting (all of us semi-auto folks), and the metal drum looks bad to the bone. What am I missing in your thread? I am an ignorant newbie, but what I see is the differance in taking a file to the MD 20 drum and a few monents of your time VS a "$180 reliabilty service" to make the Wratimaker fit the "normal variances in Saigas" That seems to be the point that you may be missing. I didn't get that from any of the videos on the GB posting. I watched 3 of them, they seemed to use brand new guns right from the box for both mag tests... there is something else here, that can't be the reason for the complaining, I just ain't seein' it though. AA doesn't seem very professional IMO. if i'm understanding correctly, their videos are in response to MD's vids. a private range to avoid the noise of other people, and perhaps a little bit of rehearsing to weed out all the "uhs" - all would have helped the videos to me, the guy doesn't sound like he's representing his product very well, or he's just really nervous on camera. -edit- also noticed that they were using some light loads to break in new in box saigas. i wonder if the wraithmaker drum would have had the same FTE problems as the MD-20, if they had used it first. Edited October 24, 2008 by mechsterbator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I don't get it??? I watched the videos and read the GB auction... I don't see anything outlandish at all?? What are you mad at anyone about? The fact that they say there are variances in Saigas? I have 2 12's and the factory mag from one won't fit the other!! I don't have any problem believing that there are variations in the guns... am I missing something here? Both drums look like they would work well for any regular guy shooting (all of us semi-auto folks), and the metal drum looks bad to the bone. What am I missing in your thread? I am an ignorant newbie, but what I see is the differance in taking a file to the MD 20 drum and a few monents of your time VS a "$180 reliabilty service" to make the Wratimaker fit the "normal variances in Saigas" That seems to be the point that you may be missing. I didn't get that from any of the videos on the GB posting. I watched 3 of them, they seemed to use brand new guns right from the box for both mag tests... there is something else here, that can't be the reason for the complaining, I just ain't seein' it though. AA doesn't seem very professional IMO. if i'm understanding correctly, their videos are in response to MD's vids. a private range to avoid the noise of other people, and perhaps a little bit of rehearsing to weed out all the "uhs" - all would have helped the videos to me, the guy doesn't sound like he's representing his product very well, or he's just really nervous on camera. -edit- also noticed that they were using some light loads to break in new in box saigas. i wonder if the wraithmaker drum would have had the same FTE problems as the MD-20, if they had used it first. I thought the same thing. Also, Even money says the spring was un-coiled by the previous owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 "Ours didn't come with instructions" Well you bought it used, instructions tend to get lost from buyer to buyer. I also make the push for the spring tension being monkeyed with, the prototype I shot fed 00 buck As for the comment about the range? Null and void from comparing the two video's; Mike didn't make his video at a formal range. Course there is a fair amount of testimony from other MD-20 users http://s351.photobucket.com/albums/q458/co...nt=scoutjoe.flv Anybody else realize that the drums were only tested in their full auto gun? I don't own a full auto S-12... nor can I without a whole lot more hoopla. I think Tony, Dave and that asshat gang are the only ones, right? I'm with Mechsterbator and SaigaNoobie......You're generally going to have to use something other than birdshot to break the guns in a little. Where they using 1 oz shot? 7/8th oz? I didn't hear any specs on the birdshot, I know my gun has some issues with the 7/8th oz running properly. Just remember you can't argue with an idiot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I didn't get that from any of the videos on the GB posting. I watched 3 of them, they seemed to use brand new guns right from the box for both mag tests... there is something else here, that can't be the reason for the complaining, I just ain't seein' it though. You obviously haven't read through this entire thread or done a seach of the others on here. Here's a quote from the beginning of this thread.... "What everyone seems to be forgetting, and what they are glossing over is the past history. Especially here. It is not the drum that is the problem, it is their crappy business practices by lying about the S-12, their "reliability service, and their competitors! Especially when they went after Tromix! What kind of idiotic, brand new firearms company goes after one of the leading experts on this weapon?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stiletto raggio 20 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Collektor, Don't stop with this thread. Do a search on this site and you will see a long-standing history of buck-passing and horrible customer services. Bottom line: AA rushed a crap product to market in order to be first. They made their money up front. Mike's drum is far superior, and the proverbial shit will eventually roll downt he proverbial hill and land in the proverbial cemetery. Proverbially speaking, AA is doomed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'd trade in my MD-20 on a Wraithmaker in a second! I'd trade for it, sell the Wraithmaker, buy back the MD-20, and buy a house with the money left over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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