Obama Youth Brigade: Church Attendance Forbidden

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

[Wotan1105 7]

He's only leading by example. Our Dear Christian Leader has been in office 11 Sundays now and hasn't gone to church yet, go figure. I'm not religious but when people say one thing and do another... well that's our President.

[superA 289]

[Juggernaut 11,054]

He's only leading by example. Our Dear Christian Leader has been in office 11 Sundays now and hasn't gone to church yet, go figure. I'm not religious but when people say one thing and do another... well that's our President.

 

Funny, I am a horrible wretch.... and I am in church every Sunday....

If my son is home from college, I make him "Volunteer" to go as well.....

[zakmatthews 14]

 

First, this is insane and I'm completely against it.

 

Second, if it does pass, what do church-related leadership & maintainence positions have anything to do with mandatory service to Amerika? And why wouldn't they be allowed?

[saigafan12345 21]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

[superA 289]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

 

 

You never fail to amaze me at how ignorant you are. Just about all of your posts contradict themselves.

[saigafan12345 21]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

 

 

You never fail to amaze me at how ignorant you are. Just about all of your posts contradict themselves.

 

How so? I don't like Socialism or religion.

[saigafan12345 21]

 

First, this is insane and I'm completely against it.

 

Second, if it does pass, what do church-related leadership & maintainence positions have anything to do with mandatory service to Amerika? And why wouldn't they be allowed?

 

Religion's followers subscribe to a doctrine and are submissive to a higher, all knowing all seeing omnipotent being who can do anything (except talk to his followers himself so he needs people to do that for him....oh and money) Totalitarian regimes need to replace this entity with the government, so that the people do not see any being or doctrine as more powerful or important than the state.

Edited April 8, 2009 by saigafun12345

[Wotan1105 7]

I learned to question authority, but also got sent to a Catholic school growing up K-6. The two didn't mix very well. I respect people that have beliefs, but see what fun man is saying. I remember when Jesse Ventura caused a huge uproar for stating in a playboy interview that "Religion was the opiate of the masses" and I still agree with him. Shouldn't need a church between you and God.

[saigafan12345 21]

I learned to question authority, but also got sent to a Catholic school growing up K-6. The two didn't mix very well. I respect people that have beliefs, but see what fun man is saying. I remember when Jesse Ventura caused a huge uproar for stating in a playboy interview that "Religion was the opiate of the masses" and I still agree with him. Shouldn't need a church between you and God.

 

Interesting, I grew up in a catholic house as well and turned out the same too. Also interesting that Ventura quoted Karl Marx.

 

My favorite quote regarding religion:

 

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_People

Edited April 8, 2009 by saigafun12345

[Wotan1105 7]

That's why this kind of bs legislation is inheritly wrong in this Country. We probably wouldn't even be able to have this conversation a lot of places if we didn't have our freedom, and that of religion. Regulating people NOT to go to church is just as bad as regulating them to go to church.

 

This Obama joke, 2010 can't come soon enough but with so much going on every day you won't recognize this Country in 6 months let alone 2 years

[saigafan12345 21]

That's why this kind of bs legislation is inheritly wrong in this Country. We probably wouldn't even be able to have this conversation a lot of places if we didn't have our freedom, and that of religion. Regulating people NOT to go to church is just as bad as regulating them to go to church.

 

This Obama joke, 2010 can't come soon enough but with so much going on every day you won't recognize this Country in 6 months let alone 2 years

 

Yes, I agree. The government should not regulate for or against church.

[evildog 20]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

 

Just a thought, may want to get some sunblock SPS 5000 with that thinking may get alittle hot where you end up.

I'm no angel either but i believe religion is something we all could use alittle more of...............

[saigafan12345 21]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

 

Just a thought, may want to get some sunblock SPS 5000 with that thinking may get alittle hot where you end up.

I'm no angel either but i believe religion is something we all could use alittle more of...............

 

My favorite flawed argument for believing in religion. "If you're wrong, you're gonna burn in hell!" How do YOU know YOU'RE not gonna burn in the various hells for the thousands of religions you deny?

 

"We're all atheist to thousands of the gods man has made up throughout history, some of us just go one god further"

- Richard Dawkins

[Moe Zambeak 53]

[Wotan1105 7]

The act sucks, I hope it fails, socialism.

 

But freeing young minds from religion wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

 

Just a thought, may want to get some sunblock SPS 5000 with that thinking may get alittle hot where you end up.

I'm no angel either but i believe religion is something we all could use alittle more of...............

 

It will always be a doube-edged sword. Faith is great, whether it be Christian, or Islam, prayer, good thoughts, family, it's been proven to help many people. And 99.9% of what the church tries to do might be just and right with good intentions. Many studies done on this and it can't be refuted. But it goes across all religions that's why I look at it as "faith". You can believe in a Native American God, or a Christian God, Pagan God and arrive at the same place at the end of the day. This is where natural law comes in, and it can be derived from many religions and spiritual beliefs.

 

As good as it can be, it can be equally as bad. Extremist Islam, they might be wrong, they might be twisting the words and teachings. But it's their religion, it's what they have faith in. I have not read the Koran so I don't really know much about Islam other than the basics. But from what I've learned it is peaceful yes, but way too open to interpretation. It's been a runaway train since the 1970s at least.

 

Religion will continue to be used for all the wrong things, even if we stomp out these Islamo Fascists. Christianity itself has a pretty brutal history. More people have died in the name of religion throughout history than anything I can think of. It's almost like the political system. When it works, and works right, it's perfect. But the system itself is flawed. No matter how much you work on it, tweak it, there is always something falling apart.

 

We might need to reform Government and the way we think. And there is definitely some sort of movement the likes of which I've never seen. But how far will we get without a spiritual awakening. Religion is more of a divider than a uniter, always has been. Class and race warfare on a grand scale.

[saigafan12345 21]

Religion is more of a divider than a uniter, always has been. Class and race warfare on a grand scale.

 

+1

[Wotan1105 7]

Sorry I have had the day off today I usually try and not rant so much lol

[saigafan12345 21]

Sorry I have had the day off today I usually try and not rant so much lol

 

You should "rant" more often, you're intelligent and make some good points. And no I'm not being an asshole.

[KrisFox 69]

http://www.thevoicemagazine.com/politics/5...-forbidden.html

(a) Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:

 

(10) Such other activities as the Corporation may prohibit.

 

This part scares the hell out of me.

[Moe Zambeak 53]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

[dancapostagno 0]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

 

more or less. The third clause of Article VI of the Constitution provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office. This clause could be interpreted to mean to prevent the discrimination of people with differing religious principles in regards to office holding, and to disallow laws which would give such a representing religious organization power over policymaking by excluding others whom do not share the same religious beliefs. The idea is, you are free to practice whatever you like, but required to leave that practice at home while serving as a representative (in any capacity) of the US Government out of respect to the aforementioned freedom of others. "No cross in the cubicle."

[zakmatthews 14]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

 

more or less. The third clause of Article VI of the Constitution provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office. This clause could be interpreted to mean to prevent the discrimination of people with differing religious principles in regards to office holding, and to disallow laws which would give such a representing religious organization power over policymaking by excluding others whom do not share the same religious beliefs. The idea is, you are free to practice whatever you like, but required to leave that practice at home while serving as a representative (in any capacity) of the US Government out of respect to the aforementioned freedom of others. "No cross in the cubicle."

 

So let me make sure I understand . . . It's ok to be religious and do your corresponding religious things, but you can't combine religious service with GIVE service (i.e., You can't go paint churches as part of your GIVE service? You can't do inner city "missionary work" as part of your GIVE service?)

 

If this is all it's saying, there's nothing wrong with that rationale. There is plenty wrong with the mandatory service in general!

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I'm just glad I got a Government that can think for me..... free will is over rated...

[dancapostagno 0]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

 

more or less. The third clause of Article VI of the Constitution provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office. This clause could be interpreted to mean to prevent the discrimination of people with differing religious principles in regards to office holding, and to disallow laws which would give such a representing religious organization power over policymaking by excluding others whom do not share the same religious beliefs. The idea is, you are free to practice whatever you like, but required to leave that practice at home while serving as a representative (in any capacity) of the US Government out of respect to the aforementioned freedom of others. "No cross in the cubicle."

 

So let me make sure I understand . . . It's ok to be religious and do your corresponding religious things, but you can't combine religious service with GIVE service (i.e., You can't go paint churches as part of your GIVE service? You can't do inner city "missionary work" as part of your GIVE service?)

 

If this is all it's saying, there's nothing wrong with that rationale. There is plenty wrong with the mandatory service in general!

 

as i understand it, that is pretty much it. if the church needs to be pained and to pay for missionaries, then they have a collection dish for that. people prolly wouldn't take too kindly to tax dollars going to that kind of stuff.

 

and if it helps calm those who have mistaken this for mandatory service, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) has come out and made a statement that spells out in no uncertain terms the fact that this is in no way mandatory for anyone and that there is no mechanism in the legislation that would allow for the coercion of anyone to comply.

[Brair 5]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

 

more or less. The third clause of Article VI of the Constitution provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office. This clause could be interpreted to mean to prevent the discrimination of people with differing religious principles in regards to office holding, and to disallow laws which would give such a representing religious organization power over policymaking by excluding others whom do not share the same religious beliefs. The idea is, you are free to practice whatever you like, but required to leave that practice at home while serving as a representative (in any capacity) of the US Government out of respect to the aforementioned freedom of others. "No cross in the cubicle."

 

So let me make sure I understand . . . It's ok to be religious and do your corresponding religious things, but you can't combine religious service with GIVE service (i.e., You can't go paint churches as part of your GIVE service? You can't do inner city "missionary work" as part of your GIVE service?)

 

If this is all it's saying, there's nothing wrong with that rationale. There is plenty wrong with the mandatory service in general!

 

as i understand it, that is pretty much it. if the church needs to be pained and to pay for missionaries, then they have a collection dish for that. people prolly wouldn't take too kindly to tax dollars going to that kind of stuff.

 

and if it helps calm those who have mistaken this for mandatory service, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) has come out and made a statement that spells out in no uncertain terms the fact that this is in no way mandatory for anyone and that there is no mechanism in the legislation that would allow for the coercion of anyone to comply.

 

 

the funny part is, the mandatory service was there and got removed.

 

It used to have this in it.

 

From the Misc. section, #6104: (6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds

 

It is interesting to note that that language was pulled from this bill and put in HR 1444 now.

 

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1444

 

SEC. 4. DUTIES.

 

(a) General Purpose- The purpose of the Commission is to gather and analyze information in order to make recommendations to Congress to--

 

(1) improve the ability of individuals in the United States to serve others and, by doing so, to enhance our Nation and the global community;

 

 

(2) train leaders in public service organizations to better utilize individuals committed to national service and volunteerism as they manage human and fiscal resources;

 

 

(3) identify and offer solutions to the barriers that make it difficult for some individuals in the United States to volunteer or perform national service; and

 

 

(4) build on the foundation of service and volunteer opportunities that are currently available.

 

 

 

( Specific Topics- In carrying out its general purpose under subsection (a), the Commission shall address and analyze the following specific topics:

 

(1) The level of understanding about the current Federal, State, and local volunteer programs and opportunities for service among individuals in the United States.

 

 

(2) The issues that deter volunteerism and national service, particularly among young people, and how the identified issues can be overcome.

 

 

(3) Whether there is an appropriate role for Federal, State, and local governments in overcoming the issues that deter volunteerism and national service and, if appropriate, how to expand the relationships and partnerships between different levels of government in promoting volunteerism and national service.

 

 

(4) Whether existing databases are effective in matching community needs to would-be volunteers and service providers.

 

 

(5) The effect on the Nation, on those who serve, and on the families of those who serve, if all individuals in the United States were expected to perform national service or were required to perform a certain amount of national service.

 

 

(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

 

 

 

However there is this amendment that got passed.

 

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment....11&amdt=h48

 

mendment to create a National Service Reserve Corps and requires an annual service requirement of at least 10 hours and/or annual training. A member of the National Service Reserve Corps is one who has completed a term of national service, fulfilled training, and will respond to national disasters and other emergencies. These individuals will be listed in a national database for the ease of immediate deployment in case of emergency.

 

An amendment to H.R. 1388: Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act.

 

Amendment numbered 10 printed in House Report 111-39 to create a National Service Reserve Corps and requires an annual service requirement of at least 10 hours and/or annual training. A member of the National Service Reserve Corps is one who has completed a term of national service, fulfilled training, and will respond to national disasters and other emergencies. These individuals will be listed in a national database for the ease of immediate deployment in case of emergency.

[dancapostagno 0]

After re-reading this, if anything it actually sounds GOOD. It grants separation of Church and state. It basically states that nobody can use their position in G.I.V.E to promote/take place in any of the activities listed. It does not say that you can't do them on your own.

 

more or less. The third clause of Article VI of the Constitution provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office. This clause could be interpreted to mean to prevent the discrimination of people with differing religious principles in regards to office holding, and to disallow laws which would give such a representing religious organization power over policymaking by excluding others whom do not share the same religious beliefs. The idea is, you are free to practice whatever you like, but required to leave that practice at home while serving as a representative (in any capacity) of the US Government out of respect to the aforementioned freedom of others. "No cross in the cubicle."

 

So let me make sure I understand . . . It's ok to be religious and do your corresponding religious things, but you can't combine religious service with GIVE service (i.e., You can't go paint churches as part of your GIVE service? You can't do inner city "missionary work" as part of your GIVE service?)

 

If this is all it's saying, there's nothing wrong with that rationale. There is plenty wrong with the mandatory service in general!

 

as i understand it, that is pretty much it. if the church needs to be pained and to pay for missionaries, then they have a collection dish for that. people prolly wouldn't take too kindly to tax dollars going to that kind of stuff.

 

and if it helps calm those who have mistaken this for mandatory service, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) has come out and made a statement that spells out in no uncertain terms the fact that this is in no way mandatory for anyone and that there is no mechanism in the legislation that would allow for the coercion of anyone to comply.

 

 

the funny part is, the mandatory service was there and got removed.

 

It used to have this in it.

 

From the Misc. section, #6104: (6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds

 

It is interesting to note that that language was pulled from this bill and put in HR 1444 now.

 

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1444

 

SEC. 4. DUTIES.

 

(a) General Purpose- The purpose of the Commission is to gather and analyze information in order to make recommendations to Congress to--

 

(1) improve the ability of individuals in the United States to serve others and, by doing so, to enhance our Nation and the global community;

 

 

(2) train leaders in public service organizations to better utilize individuals committed to national service and volunteerism as they manage human and fiscal resources;

 

 

(3) identify and offer solutions to the barriers that make it difficult for some individuals in the United States to volunteer or perform national service; and

 

 

(4) build on the foundation of service and volunteer opportunities that are currently available.

 

 

 

( Specific Topics- In carrying out its general purpose under subsection (a), the Commission shall address and analyze the following specific topics:

 

(1) The level of understanding about the current Federal, State, and local volunteer programs and opportunities for service among individuals in the United States.

 

 

(2) The issues that deter volunteerism and national service, particularly among young people, and how the identified issues can be overcome.

 

 

(3) Whether there is an appropriate role for Federal, State, and local governments in overcoming the issues that deter volunteerism and national service and, if appropriate, how to expand the relationships and partnerships between different levels of government in promoting volunteerism and national service.

 

 

(4) Whether existing databases are effective in matching community needs to would-be volunteers and service providers.

 

 

(5) The effect on the Nation, on those who serve, and on the families of those who serve, if all individuals in the United States were expected to perform national service or were required to perform a certain amount of national service.

 

 

(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

 

 

 

However there is this amendment that got passed.

 

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment....11&amdt=h48

 

mendment to create a National Service Reserve Corps and requires an annual service requirement of at least 10 hours and/or annual training. A member of the National Service Reserve Corps is one who has completed a term of national service, fulfilled training, and will respond to national disasters and other emergencies. These individuals will be listed in a national database for the ease of immediate deployment in case of emergency.

 

An amendment to H.R. 1388: Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act.

 

Amendment numbered 10 printed in House Report 111-39 to create a National Service Reserve Corps and requires an annual service requirement of at least 10 hours and/or annual training. A member of the National Service Reserve Corps is one who has completed a term of national service, fulfilled training, and will respond to national disasters and other emergencies. These individuals will be listed in a national database for the ease of immediate deployment in case of emergency.

 

sloppy language is dangerous. it's a good thing to have a cautious eye when it comes to laws and legislation, because all we have to go on are the letters and the precedent they set.

[Twinsen 86]

Religion is more of a divider than a uniter, always has been. Class and race warfare on a grand scale.

 

+1

 

On a national scale, nothing unites more than religion. On a global scale, nothing creates more conflict than religion.

[gunman1 1,753]

Religion is more of a divider than a uniter, always has been. Class and race warfare on a grand scale.

 

+1

 

On a national scale, nothing unites more than religion. On a global scale, nothing creates more conflict than religion.

13 years ago someone told me that it was OK to choose my own conception of God, that it was OK to let go of the ideas that were impressed on me in early life if I wanted to. It has freed me from the fear and resulting anger that I carried inside for decades, and my life and the lives of those about me have flourished. However, no matter what my thoughts are of ANY religion, I do now realize that those religions have given a sense of purpose, direction, peace, and happiness to countless people everywhere. I am deaply greatful to those who have put their lives on the line and made the supreme sacfifice so that I can live in a place where I can belive as I do. I work in local government and it is very troublesome when someone sends out a mass e-mail spousing their particular religious beleifs just for the sake of doing so, they usually get slapped pretty quick for it. The most wonderful thing is that in the America I know and love, we can all enguage in our own beleifs, one way or another.

 

My .02