SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 watched the "Fight Scene" at the end... love that in their computer model they gave 104 kills to the Saiga shotgun and only 41 to the Mossberg but in the fight the Mossy takes out at LEAST 1 guy and the Saiga never hits anything. Typical BS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Quoting Sonny P at Warriortalk "In short: This was nothing more than entertainment and business... That's the way TV works. The one finger salute was meant for the director. In editing they made it look if I'm flipping off GB's... GB's brought their own weapons. We were not allowed. Initially they promised AN94, VS99, Giurza pistol... Naaawww. SVD was very poor quality romanian POS. Max was not given opportunity to zero it in before filming. The M24 was one of GB's personal rifle- zeroed, tuned, etc. Saiga was without pistol grip and NO sights. Makarov it wasn't... Some unnamed copy... Gen 1 NVG's... Much footage and discussions didn't make the cut. GB's were nice enough guys. Little "big mouthed" (especially initially), but nice and friendly. Director was constantly egging us on to talk smack. Non stop. Off to LA to film aftermath and meet with some folks about future projects... Thanks all..." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Quoting Sonny P at Warriortalk"In short: This was nothing more than entertainment and business... That's the way TV works. The one finger salute was meant for the director. In editing they made it look if I'm flipping off GB's... GB's brought their own weapons. We were not allowed. Initially they promised AN94, VS99, Giurza pistol... Naaawww. SVD was very poor quality romanian POS. Max was not given opportunity to zero it in before filming. The M24 was one of GB's personal rifle- zeroed, tuned, etc. Saiga was without pistol grip and NO sights. Makarov it wasn't... Some unnamed copy... Gen 1 NVG's... Much footage and discussions didn't make the cut. GB's were nice enough guys. Little "big mouthed" (especially initially), but nice and friendly. Director was constantly egging us on to talk smack. Non stop. Off to LA to film aftermath and meet with some folks about future projects... Thanks all..." That makes sense with the SVD, as every shot was exactly 1" of to the left - pretty indicative of a rifle not zeroed in. I was disappointed to not see the AN94 and Giurza also, it gave viewers the false impression that Spetsnaz was still using AK74s and Markarovs. Oh well, Sonny and max still kicked ass with what they were given. I kind of figured that the show does edit jobs to add to the drama. Regardless, seeing a real ballistic knife being used was worth the watch alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Quoting Sonny P at Warriortalk"In short: This was nothing more than entertainment and business... That's the way TV works. The one finger salute was meant for the director. In editing they made it look if I'm flipping off GB's... GB's brought their own weapons. We were not allowed. Initially they promised AN94, VS99, Giurza pistol... Naaawww. SVD was very poor quality romanian POS. Max was not given opportunity to zero it in before filming. The M24 was one of GB's personal rifle- zeroed, tuned, etc. Saiga was without pistol grip and NO sights. Makarov it wasn't... Some unnamed copy... Gen 1 NVG's... Much footage and discussions didn't make the cut. GB's were nice enough guys. Little "big mouthed" (especially initially), but nice and friendly. Director was constantly egging us on to talk smack. Non stop. Off to LA to film aftermath and meet with some folks about future projects... Thanks all..." IN short: They tipped the scales towards the GB and the Speznaz still came out on top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 IN short: They tipped the scales towards the GB and the Speznaz still came out on top. Sadly, I think all they proved was that they don't really have a clue of how to do it right. As the Sonny quote says, it's all for entertainment. And to think I missed Rescue Me to watch it.......................................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 If you missed it, you can watch it here; http://www.spike.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Rescue Me??? Dude.... I missed the first period of game 6 of Wings vs Ducks..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I want a holster for my pistol like that makarov holster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Rescue Me??? Dude.... I missed the first period of game 6 of Wings vs Ducks..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 So is this about H2H or who would get the dirtnap quickest in combat? Russian focus on a lot of stand up crap and H2H and knives where SF make the world their wicked playground setting up awesome emplacements and deadly kill zones full of SIDs and Claymores and little nests out of which to pop melons with suppressed weapons. H2H maybe the Russians have some Fedor clone laying in wait but in combat Green Berets are the PHDs of Death from Bull Simons until now and they teach little jungle people in loincloths how to ambush and kill Spetznaz all over the world for decades because that is the business they are in.. Sure, but can they do THIS? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 If it was real GB it would have been Spetnaz vs. GB vs. ARVN Rangers!!! Cause thats what the GB's do, they arent for combat depicted on this show. They are for creating Allies and kicking ass with them. It would have been better if it was SEALS vs. Spetznas!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Thats the first time I have seen those Markarov holsters; simply awesome! The GBs sure talked a lot of smack, but backed up nothing. The Russians were very disciplined and proffessional, and in great shape for their age and the amount of time they have been out of the game. I also thought it was funny when that anoying host that is always bragging about his "black belts" got put on his ass by the Spetsnaz guy. That shut him up real fast. Did you see Sonny light up that smoke as he casually walked away from that live grenade! That was classic. Unlike these two GB clowns, I think most SF guys do have seriouse respect for Spetsnaz. I like this quote from a Marine in the 80s; "I have to say the Soviet Spetsnatz had our very serious respect. They are what we considered too dangerous to live, shoot on sight, never turn your back, and much like a rattlesnake, never get close enough to let them bite." Edited May 13, 2009 by desert dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zone1935 5 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Quoting Sonny P at Warriortalk"In short: This was nothing more than entertainment and business... That's the way TV works. The one finger salute was meant for the director. In editing they made it look if I'm flipping off GB's... GB's brought their own weapons. We were not allowed. Initially they promised AN94, VS99, Giurza pistol... Naaawww. SVD was very poor quality romanian POS. Max was not given opportunity to zero it in before filming. The M24 was one of GB's personal rifle- zeroed, tuned, etc. Saiga was without pistol grip and NO sights. Makarov it wasn't... Some unnamed copy... Gen 1 NVG's... Much footage and discussions didn't make the cut. GB's were nice enough guys. Little "big mouthed" (especially initially), but nice and friendly. Director was constantly egging us on to talk smack. Non stop. Off to LA to film aftermath and meet with some folks about future projects... Thanks all..." IN short: They tipped the scales towards the GB and the Speznaz still came out on top. Of course they did, what drama would there be if the russians held all the cards. I am kind off suprised they didn't compare a claymore to the grenade. I'm sure that they ran the computer simulation before and they reduced the weapons available until it was close. BTW, was anyone else impressed by the karate black belt unloading on the guy. He just shrugged it off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I just watched this episode, and most of my criticisms about it have pretty much been covered: 1. It should have been SEALs vs Spetsnaz 2. The tests for each competing weapons system should have been the same 3. If one team gets to bring their personal, customized weapons, the other team should as well 4. Beretta M9's suck and I'm sure any GB who wishes to may carry a proper sidearm, e.g. a 1911 variant 5. I really, really want one of those ballistic knives! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wotan1105 7 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think anyone would be able to tell that show is a bogus test. Just look at the grenades, if they had any interest in comparing the two, they would of put them through the same tests. Same with everything on that show. It's just for fun, and to give guys a chance to come in and bludgeon pigs and ballistic gell dummies. It's got a high corniness factor but I still enjoy watching guys with their weapons. Ballistic knife for the win haha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wotan1105 7 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Did you see Sonny light up that smoke as he casually walked away from that live grenade! That was classic. LOL yeah that was pretty cool, just another days work for him Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) I just watched this episode, and most of my criticisms about it have pretty much been covered: 1. It should have been SEALs vs Spetsnaz 2. The tests for each competing weapons system should have been the same 3. If one team gets to bring their personal, customized weapons, the other team should as well 4. Beretta M9's suck and I'm sure any GB who wishes to may carry a proper sidearm, e.g. a 1911 variant 5. I really, really want one of those ballistic knives! Right on the money, I would have bet my life on the SEALS, not to mention the drastic need for a 1911 in that testing. But hell, my personal contention lately is that we should drop NATO and become Allies with Russia...thats just me. Edited May 14, 2009 by Bean.223 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I just watched this episode, and most of my criticisms about it have pretty much been covered: 1. It should have been SEALs vs Spetsnaz 2. The tests for each competing weapons system should have been the same 3. If one team gets to bring their personal, customized weapons, the other team should as well 4. Beretta M9's suck and I'm sure any GB who wishes to may carry a proper sidearm, e.g. a 1911 variant 5. I really, really want one of those ballistic knives! Right on the money, I would have bet my life on the SEALS, not to mention the drastic need for a 1911 in that testing. But hell, my personal contention lately is that we should drop NATO and become Allies with Russia...thats just me. I won't argue with that! NATO, (besides us), are a bunch of pussies, allies of convenience against the USSR. Now that the Soviet Bear is not necessarily an outright threat, it makes more sense to ally with the stronger country: Mother Russia! I think it's pretty clear, their attitude is that we're either with em or against em. I'd rather be with em. Yeah, I think SEALs would have mopped the floor with the Spetsnaz troops. Nothing against Spetsnaz, I respect em very much... but SEALs are a different animal! And just to reiterate, 9mm in general is a shitty pistol round. The only reason that so many armies/people use it is that it's cheap. .45 ACP is, imho, the perfect pistol round. It is uniquely suited to the job a pistol should be doing, i.e. taking enemies out of the fight, (no matter where you hit em), with one shot at close range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was never a GB in the Army. I TRAINED with some during SERE school, as well as a few other classes. I was in the Rangers (the U.S. Army's original Black Berets before they gave them to everyone for just completing basic). Don't get me started on THAT though. Shows like this are, as has been mentioned, for entertainment. I thought it was pretty stacked against the Russians the way they had to score hits on several targets while moving with the Saiga, while the GBs got to shoot at a static target. Same for the grenade inside a washer with the targets outside vs. the grenade in a confined room WITH the targets. Anyone else notice how they edited the bolt action M24 to fire as fast as a semi? When it really comes down to it, just like the top competitive athletes out there (whether in racing, shooting, archery, or most other sports), on any given day, the guy that was in second or third place yesterday could be champion today. Then tomorrow, it could change again. It only takes one slip up to let the other guy prevail and they're all on the top of their game. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) Wow..umm.. Guess I had too high of expectations for the "testers" to actually test something. The knife was a cool though You want something better to watch? http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/200...ion_pole_d.html Oh to be a brass pole... Edited May 14, 2009 by scoutjoe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) +1 for the loaded stack the deck results. I'm not knocking the GB's, but the Russians should have been able to use their own or very similar equipment. ScoutJoe, Holy crap, that video is absolutely art. Edited May 14, 2009 by GeorgiaPD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sly 233 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Wow..umm.. Guess I had too high of expectations for the "testers" to actually test something. The knife was a cool though You want something better to watch? http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/200...ion_pole_d.html Oh to be a brass pole... Oh you deplorible distractor!!!! How dare you!............ Who won???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Wow..umm.. Guess I had too high of expectations for the "testers" to actually test something. The knife was a cool though You want something better to watch? http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/200...ion_pole_d.html Oh to be a brass pole... Oh you deplorible distractor!!!! How dare you!............ Who won???? Oh Hush up, you liked it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GPalmer 1 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Wow..umm.. Guess I had too high of expectations for the "testers" to actually test something. The knife was a cool though You want something better to watch? http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/200...ion_pole_d.html Oh to be a brass pole... Oh you deplorible distractor!!!! How dare you!............ Who won???? Uhhh, we did, I think... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Wow..umm.. Guess I had too high of expectations for the "testers" to actually test something. The knife was a cool though You want something better to watch? http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/200...ion_pole_d.html Oh to be a brass pole... Oh you deplorible distractor!!!! How dare you!............ Who won???? Oh Hush up, you liked it Wow I am impressed. Those last two girls were awesome!!! I'll admit a weakness for girls in stripper shoes, BUT they did have some great skill!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dae.edorian 12 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) So, the narrator pronounced "Saiga" as "Say-guh" and I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "Sigh-guh." Also, in the specs they show 10 rounds, but they're clearly using a 5 round mag, and I imagine Spetznaz actually uses 8s. In the time trial drill, he seems to fire 7 shots, so I'm forced to wonder what happened in editing... Edited May 14, 2009 by dae.edorian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I also don't think they took into account that Green Beans are a force multiplier.... I DO think that Man on man... Spetsnaz got our boys beat...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Their sniper rifle test was less than 100 yards away. That really bothered me as that range would be better handled by an M4 or a handgrenade. The selection of firearms were all semi-automatic civilian versions. Also, giving the edge to the US Grenades is pretty stupid since you use them for "room clearing" versus "inside a tank". Either one would blow the shit out of the inside of a tank or a confined room. I also found it humorous that the GB carry e-tools on their light loadouts instead of a knife/bayonet... "Meet at checkpoint Bravo to move rocks and build a sand castle." Criticisms aside, I was SOOOO happy when I saw the Saiga 12 demonstrated on national TV! And fucking pirates would lose to the knights everytime unless they were fighting in the water. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I also don't think they took into account that Green Beans are a force multiplier.... I DO think that Man on man... Spetsnaz got our boys beat...... Do you think that Spetsnaz got our SEALs beat, Jugg? I sure as hell don't. This episode was fairly entertaining, but flawed in oh so many ways.. just one of which was pitting dissimilar types of special forces against one another. Spetsnaz and Green Berets have very different missions. In a true test between Spetsnaz and SEALs, (which you wouldn't necessarily get from the producers of this show anyway), I think the SEALs woud whoop some Russkie ass.. probably wouldn't even be that close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I also don't think they took into account that Green Beans are a force multiplier.... I DO think that Man on man... Spetsnaz got our boys beat...... Do you think that Spetsnaz got our SEALs beat, Jugg? I sure as hell don't. This episode was fairly entertaining, but flawed in oh so many ways.. just one of which was pitting dissimilar types of special forces against one another. Spetsnaz and Green Berets have very different missions. In a true test between Spetsnaz and SEALs, (which you wouldn't necessarily get from the producers of this show anyway), I think the SEALs woud whoop some Russkie ass.. probably wouldn't even be that close. Nah... I was referring to the guys on the program primarily.... However... I Know Sonny P is one of a kind.... and you would be hard pressed to find a more capable man... Seal, Beret , or Spetsnaz... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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