Caspian 32 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 i have a friend who does injection molding of plastic and is a firearms manuf to boot. He's not familiar with the Saiga (he has a different forte), but i explained the shortage we were having and the need for reasonably priced US made mags. He said, "from what you described, it'll be pretty easy. send me a mag and i'll let you know what it'll take". It'll be awhile until i know since i can't mail the mag until Monday. However, the ball is rolling and wheels are turning. I'm guessing within a month he'll have an estimate on what the tooling will cost. From that, i can get a quote on prices for various volumes of mags. Once i do math on tooling + price/mag, i will be able to figure out what the selling price will be. I'm not out to be a millionaire out of this deal. to be honest with you, it's self serving. I don't want to pay $55/mag. the only way i can make my own is to get a bunch made in volume to offset costs. I'm not asking for "pre-orders". Don't bother saying "put me down for 5 if the price is right". it won't change how many i have made. One other cool thing, these will count as 3 US parts. Cool, eh? I'll get back to you in a month. Caspian p.s. i don't know about 8 rounders yet. i don't have a factory one to send him. without a sample in his hand, he can't duplicate it. don't offer to send me one. i want to get the 5 rounder done first. if it is successful, then an 8 rounder will follow. i can't invest too much without breaking even. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 i'm not sure why you're even bothering with the 5 rounders...i'd think you'd go straight for the 8 rounders.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I don't have a 8 rounder to send off. Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shooter2 5 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Once he gets the mold done for the 5-rounder, it shouldn't take much to take that design and extend it by a couple rounds, or even double it! Should it? If guys can do it here with hacksaws, JB weld and fiberglass wrap, it couldn't be that hard for someone with full production facilities... But good on ya for getting the ball rolling; hope something comes of it! I personally would be quite happy with a good amount of 5-rounders; the 8s are just too ungainly to be practical for anything but 3-gun and other games, IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 as much as i'd like to make a 12 rounder just to be obnoxiously big, i have to be practical. if i'm laying out thousands of $$ (my own $$), then i need to make something universally attractive. i think more people would rather buy lots of 5 rounders rather than lots of 8 rounders. 8 rounders are damn big. if the 5 rounders sell well and we have a proven feed design and solid platform, then 8 rounders WILL follow. baby steps. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 www.uspto.gov I didnt do a search yet, but look there for Izhmash or firearm magazine to be sure the feeding lips and dimensions of the mag arent patented. that is my all-time favorite website....did you know there is a patent on a vibrating condom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 man, Bvamp, you're a skittish one. you're the first to scream DD when anyone whispers 9 rounds. Now you think the ruskies are gonna file a patent lawsuit against me. (just busting your chops, better safe than sorry, right). Anyway, based on the obscene number of aftermarket magazines available from various sources for thousands of diferent models of firearms, i feel confident that as long as i don't stamp "Ishmash" on the side, i'll be safe. If magazine production was indeed illegal, then ProMag, Shearer (glock), USA, and Meggar would be out of business. Later caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 cant be too careful in business, especially if there is good money to be made or at stake. I know yer busting my chops. just thought Id point the site out to you for future reference. I dont see patent marks on the magazine I have, so you should be good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 well if you're in love with the 5 rounders, i've got 7 - 5 rounders that have been modified to 6 rounders....i'll trade them all for 3 - 8 rounders....since they're so unwieldy and shit.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 5rd. mads to start, then LONG body 5rd mags. (what you do to the peg on the follower is nobobies business but our own!) G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I like GOB's idea for the lonnnnng five round magazine to which we can do what we want. We should also write our congressmen and senators to repeal these idiotic laws. Let the ATFE go after terrorists not decent gun owners who might make a modifcation which they don't know is illegal. Die terrorist scum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) I agree... make a "tall 5-round" mag and block it up so that it only accepts 5 rounds. Then the buyer could remove the blocks to make it a 6,7, or 8 round mag to comply with their state's laws. Edited February 19, 2005 by GTwannabe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 i'm getting a couple 8 rounders from our friends in Finland. Once my manuf. sees the 5 rounder, he will be able to access the cost to tool up and make them. I will ask him what the price difference will be on making a longer version. The whole deal will depend on what tool up and production run costs are. If i can't get the mags for less than $20 - $25 each then i'm not sure how well they'll sell. if an importer brings in a shipload and can sell them for $19.99, i'm in a world of shit. Thousands lost. I am not against 8 rounders. If i can have 8 rounders made for near the same cost as 5 rounders, i'll have the 8 rounders made. With an 8 rounder, there is a larger die (more machining) and more plastic in the shot. it will add a bit to the initial cost. Like i said, it all depends on what the i can have them made for. Remember, these are US made by guys making a living wage. Not Russia where they're making $5/day. I hope this is economically possible. It's a small production run in the whole scheme of manufacturing. i'll keep ya posted. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
krom32117 0 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I like the sound of adding 3 US parts to the count . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnnymceldoo 0 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Thats great to hear caspian. Let me know if you need molds made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amish_psycho 0 Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Injection Molding is probably the way to go. I looked at using my CNC machine to cut from solid plastic, but really high quality plastics are expensive and there is so much waste in cutting it up. I am working on Sheet Metal mags with IM follower and Floor Plates. Keep in mind after you make a IM magazine you still have to make and reliably install Steel Feed Lips. =higher mfg. cost and time. I worry too about making mags, then 3 days later the new importer saturates the market with factory stuff for about the same price. Good Luck to you and keep us all posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted March 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 ******UPDATE***** I just got off the phone with him. The mold will run around $100K for the magazine and another $15K for the metal re-enforcment at the top of the mag. I don't exactly have $115K siting around to invest, so the project will be shelved. The availablity of 8 rounders from our friends in Finland and the possiblity of making drums for around $100 has opened a lot of doors. Thanks for the interest. Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yurt_boy 0 Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 i have a friend who does injection molding of plastic and is a firearms manuf to boot. He's not familiar with the Saiga (he has a different forte), but i explained the shortage we were having and the need for reasonably priced US made mags. He said, "from what you described, it'll be pretty easy. send me a mag and i'll let you know what it'll take". It'll be awhile until i know since i can't mail the mag until Monday. However, the ball is rolling and wheels are turning. I'm guessing within a month he'll have an estimate on what the tooling will cost. From that, i can get a quote on prices for various volumes of mags. Once i do math on tooling + price/mag, i will be able to figure out what the selling price will be. I'm not out to be a millionaire out of this deal. to be honest with you, it's self serving. I don't want to pay $55/mag. the only way i can make my own is to get a bunch made in volume to offset costs. I'm not asking for "pre-orders". Don't bother saying "put me down for 5 if the price is right". it won't change how many i have made. One other cool thing, these will count as 3 US parts. Cool, eh? I'll get back to you in a month. Caspian p.s. i don't know about 8 rounders yet. i don't have a factory one to send him. without a sample in his hand, he can't duplicate it. don't offer to send me one. i want to get the 5 rounder done first. if it is successful, then an 8 rounder will follow. i can't invest too much without breaking even. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Caspian, you are the man! I'd like to go ahead a pre-order now. Can you put me down for 5 of these if the price is right? Why don't you send an 8 rounder? I'd like to offer to send you one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 (edited) sure dude, send me an 8 rounder. the project isn't going anywhere, but you won't read the small print. hell, you won't read the regular sized print caspian Edited March 3, 2005 by Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amish_psycho 0 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Nice try man, but I am actually making some progress with sheet metal. The difficult part is the damn curve in the mag. ..... But ...... I have twisted ways of thinking outside the box. I started to machine a model from nylon to check fit, but said F IT!!! and will probably start right off the bat with steel. Fine tuning can be done later. Does anyone know which springs for other mags work well?? ie. M16 30's , CETME, M1A 20 or 30, etc.. etc... etc... etc...... etc........??? You would help push my project a little faster. Oh Yeah, probably an 8+ rd. mag. wink wink. I don't feel like buying bulk spring and making it. Any help appreciated. Amish out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yurt_boy 0 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I guess my dry attempt at humor went undeciphered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL..i guess so.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 i'm not quite sure how my stating "the process is too expensive to proceed" followed by "sign me up for 5" is funny. maybe i'm getting old and cranky. or maybe......yurt got busted and won't admit he's ADD. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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