hardcorps1775 1 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 You need to be carful not to let the installed mag ride too high in the magwell due to the fact that as the Saiga 12 bolt picks up the next round, there is a protrusion on the bolt that could make contact with the primer...not a good thing. that would ruin your whole day!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 You need to be carful not to let the installed mag ride too high in the magwell due to the fact that as the Saiga 12 bolt picks up the next round, there is a protrusion on the bolt that could make contact with the primer...not a good thing. that would ruin your whole day!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm... "Open-bolt slam-firing full-auto mag-fed 12 gauge" We wouldn't want that now, would we? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Just to clarify: I was JOKING in that last post! Don't try this at home!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Okay, waitaminnit! I remember some of you guys talking about modifying G3 mags? Could a modified steel G3 mag be used instead of the 2-rnd Saiga mag?? That'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than a Saiga mag, plus you could weld it in place. Does the Knoxx conversion use the Knoxx follower or the Saiga one?? Gummerfan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 from flogger's pix, it uses the knoxx follower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 from flogger's pix, it uses the knoxx follower. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, looks that way. I wonder if a modified steel G3 mag could be made to fit, feed, function, & fire mated to the Knoxx NLF mag? They're a lot more cheap and plentiful than Saiga mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I must confess that I'm anxiously awaiting your next post 1st Ranger..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flogger 0 Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 How deep the mag goes depends on what limits it, and those are the ribs on the factory Saiga mags. The idea of using the metal Knoxx tower cut to the same height as the factory mag is a good one, I just want you to be careful on how it sits in the magwell. You can check it by installing a factory mag and opening the bolt, then intalling your Knoxx (when you get it closer to being finished), and make sure they sit the same. And yes, I too have thought about using a steel G3 mag instead of a Saiga 2rd, but I'm not a welder, and it would take that to convert. It should work just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 (edited) Ok, here's another update. So far, in addition to what's posted above, I have done the following: I have cleaned up the metal feed tower using a file and fitted it to the magazine and to the shotgun. I have cut down the Saiga magazine and removed the ribs. In addition, I also had to remove some meat from the back of the magazine. I also removed the plastic feed tower from the Knoxx. I didn't take a picture of the plastic tower on the Knoxx before I cut it, so to those who still might be confused by this, I apologize. I know others have since received a NLFD, so maybe they can post a pic for me. Ok, now for the pictures. Here I cleaned up the cut. I also had to remove some extra metal in the front so that the magazine will sit flush to the NLFD. In order to allow the magazine to fit inside the tower, some metal had to be removed. As you can see in the bottom of the picture, I removed less in the "front" of the tower than in the "back" to accommodate the extra width of the rear of the magazine. Another view. Here is the magazine after all the cutting and trimming. What a PITA! Removing the ribs sucked. I used a wood finish chisel to remove most of the ribs, then a palm sander to smooth it out. I started to use a Dremmel, but this just wound up melting the plastic and proved to be more of a pain than it was worth. I also had to remove some plastic from the back of the magazine (next picture). Back of the magazine. Here is the Knoxx NLFD post plastic tower removal. I figured some of you might be interested in seeing what the follower looked like. Well, I hope this is continuing to be entertaining to you guys. I'm about to go drill holes into the tower and magazine, ala Flogger, to fasten the magazine to the tower. Once that is complete, I'll do some function tests, then once I'm satisfied that everything works, I'll use some binary epoxy to add strength. Talk to you later. 1st. Edited March 10, 2005 by 1st Ranger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Well, I hope this is continuing to be entertaining to you guys. more entertaining than most of the movies i've seen this year! suspenseful, too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Thanks for the follower pic. I'd wondered how they did that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 (edited) Here it is. Its at the 95% stage. Its all together and I am able to load all 10 rounds into it. I still need to do some fine tuning, but since I have to get to class today, it'll have to wait till tomorrow. I've had a chance to run it through my S-12 by hand cycling it, and there were a couple of things that I have to work on. I may need to open the feed lips a little, cause the shells aren't sitting at the right angle every single time. But I want to play around with it before I take that step. There is also a little binding in the drum's tower, so I'm going to have to do some fine tuning there also. The binding hasn't prevented me from loading the drum or stripping rounds out of it by hand. Just a little stiff. But other than that, it seems to work great. Now, for the pics. The magazine is firmly attached to the tower, however, I still plan on adding some epoxy to add strength. Opposite side. One thing I might try is to drill a small hole in the lower front of the tower and insert a pin since there isn't enough room for a screw and nut. I'll have to think on this, cause I may want to do it before I add the epoxy. Front view Knoxx NLFD side by side with a 5 rounder My S-12 with NLFD mounted Close up, kinda All in all, I am cautiously pleased so far. I will feel much better once I finish the fine tuning. I will hold off any decision on whether or not I think this project was worth it until I get it completely finnished. Things I'd do differenty: - Tape up a much larger portion of the feed tower and leave it on until done. This is to keep it as free as possible from scratches from errent file strokes. - Tape up the metal portion of the magazine for the same reason. Edited March 10, 2005 by 1st Ranger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DHunter 1 Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Looks good so far. Keep us posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flogger 0 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Good job 1st Ranger, I hope it works as good as mine does, you should be pleased. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Feeling good on this one..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Flooger and 1st Ranger Awsome job!!!! Time to order my drum!!!! FREE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 This is great work and very creative, and I don't want to detract from it, but the weakness is the plastic to metal connection. It would be better if you could use the top stub of a metal mag and weld it to the Knox feed tower. Wasn't there a guy who machined an entire mag out of a block of aluminum? Maybe he could make just the top 2 inches of that, but out of steel. The other benefit of doing that is that you could cut the Knox feed tower all the way down and get rid of the voids from the cut-outs that it has. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I'm going to rant here for a moment, so please bear with me. So far, I've been fairly impressed with the design of the Knoxx NLFD, as it came to me in its origonal form.......with the exception of how the metal tower is attached to the NLFD. The tower is held in place on the body of the NLFD by 6 screws, 4 of which I've highlighted. And this is where I'm scratching my head. Ok, for those of you who don't have one to look at, there are 4 screws on the sides of the body, and two on top. I've highlighted 2 of the 3 side screws, and one of the top screws. The fourth side screw is on the opposite side of the pic with just the one red circle . THe 2nd top screw sits right next to the screw I've highlighted in blue. Here's the rub: only the two screws on top have metal reinforcement where the screws thread into the body. ALL four of the side screws are just screwed into the plastic. What's with this? When I removed the side screws origonally, most of the plastic that the screws were threaded into came out with the screw, so when I put the screws back in, they never really tighten down. Obviously, someone spent a lot of time desgning this thing, so why didn't they add metal reinforcement to all the screws? I just don't get it. I'll definataly epoxy these screws in when I'm done tinkering with it. It just seems like such an obvious weakpoint. Ok, Rant off. Thanks for listining. 1st Quote Link to post Share on other sites
amish_psycho 0 Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Epoxy is cool if it's Permanent. You might try using Karserts or something of that nature next time. You would drill out the hole and put in an insert with threads in it. Kinda like HeliCoils. Just a thought Also, update on my steel mags.... Hard to find time to work on em except on weekends. If I get the prototypes done soon, you should be able to use them on your NLFD a lot easier. Mig weld them in place or preferrable spot weld it together like i am doing. A tack weld should hold it in place to check function, and you can always grind the tack weld out if it's off a little. O'well. Unfortunately mags are coming slower than planned I'll make more progress this weekend. Amish out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hardcorps1775 1 Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 god, you guys are awesome. i am just in frigging AWE at the inventiveness, technical proficiency, and your willingness to share technique and know-how. hats off to you and a thousand thanks!!! i love the giva and take, too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 OK so how well does it feed and shoot?? FREE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flogger 0 Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 1st Ranger, I agree that the screws are the weak point in the Knoxx design. I haven't decided how I'll handle it, but I'm certain there is a way to do it. If there were an additional two solid screws, that would make all the difference in the world (although I have not had any problem with service life of the Knoxx). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 the screws on the inside don't rub with the shells? Hows the work? pic? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Sorry about the silence gents. I've been really busy with school work. I'm going to work on it a little tonight. If I can, I'll post another update. Swiftvision, I am assuming you mean the screws used to hold the magazine and metal tower together. They do not rub. I partially flattened the head on the button head screws to allow enough clearance for the shot shells. I'll try to post a pic tonight of what I mean. 1st Ranger, I agree that the screws are the weak point in the Knoxx design. I haven't decided how I'll handle it, but I'm certain there is a way to do it. If there were an additional two solid screws, that would make all the difference in the world (although I have not had any problem with service life of the Knoxx). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Flogger, have you taken the drum apart? I'm almost afraid to even try. But, if it is fairly easy to do, it probably would be really easy to sleeve the screws. Let me know what you think. Peace out. 1st Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1st Ranger 0 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 the screws on the inside don't rub with the shells? Hows the work? pic? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok Swiftvision, this ones for you. I had my NLFD apart for some work, but I threw the tower back together enough for some pics. Inside you'll see one of the screws used to hold the mag to the tower. There are two more just like it on the opposite side, but you get the idea. I tried to get a pic with a shell in there so that you could see the clearance, but I couldn't get it to work, sorry. I hope tis helped. 1st. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oak 3 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Drum? What's that? It's a NLFD damn it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flogger 0 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 1st Ranger, I too was afraid to take the Knoxx NLF apart, but after I did, I was very impressed with the internals, real simple and well made. The only concern is that the 4 screws holding the halfs together screw into plastic (again). It would be real easy to substitute longer screws that have nuts on the backside instead of the factory screws. I'll do that soon, just need time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 What OAK said! NLFD's are cool, that nasty 4 letter word is just trouble! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle7 0 Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Ok so how does it shoot?? any issues?? FREE What OAK said! NLFD's are cool, that nasty 4 letter word is just trouble! G O B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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