Pistol grip or flash suppressor?

[massaiga 8]

So I am planning a 7.62x39 conversion project and I wanted to gather people's opinions on this. Here in Massachusetts we are still subject to the AWB and as such I have to be very careful during my conversion if I want to stay legal.

 

So for me the part I have to worry about is the entire list-o-evil-parts bs. If post-conversion my 7.62x39 has more than one item off the list below it is an illegal assault weapon in Mass...

 

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) a grenade launcher;

 

So my question is if you could only have one thing on that list what would it be? Right now I am leaning towards a Dragunov style thumb-hole grip (probably the one from Choate) and a flash suppressor. My other option would be a standard pistol grip, fixed stock and no suppressor.

 

And yes... I would pick grenade launcher if the grenades were not an issue also

[n102788 6]

so im guessing a thumbhole stock doesnt count as a pistol grip, if so your first option listed would be what i would choose, a thumbhole stock is just as good as a pistol grip in my opinion and you get a flash supressor. Unless your about to get a nice stock, like a krinkov or a tromix then that would be a nice option too, and than forget the flash supressor. In the end its what ever you want to do and what feels the best for you. good luck

[nalioth 405]

You can't beat these:

 

 

Manufactured in Bulgaria for Global Trades. They're glass reinforced nylon and danged near indestructible.

 

From the Global Trades website:

This new buttstock fits any standard stamped receiver AK, and is made for Armory USA in Bulgaria. It is made of black polyamide (nylon) with 30% glass fiber filings for strength. This is the same material used on military fiber polymer stock sets, including the AK-74 making it strong and rigid. Designed by Ivan Kolev, this stock is professional and comfortable when shouldered. There are two reasons you want this stock; (1) Confort, this stock is one of the most comfortable polymer stocks made. It is also 1-1/4" longer than the standard wood or polymer stocks made for the military and fits like a sporting rifle. When you lift this rifle to your shoulder it automatically aligns with the sights. The pistol grip section has the widest hand opening of any stock to accomodate small or large hands. The surface is textured to give you a secure grip

 

Available at Tickbite Supply at a greatly reduced price (because nobody but you poor ban state residents need them any more).

[fxhart 14]

Don't forget to permanently attach that flash hider because if it's threaded on it will count against you. Also make sure a thumbhole stock isn't considered a pistol grip (in some states they are).

[massaiga 8]

You can't beat these:

 

 

Manufactured in Bulgaria for Global Trades. They're glass reinforced nylon and danged near indestructible.

 

From the Global Trades website:

This new buttstock fits any standard stamped receiver AK, and is made for Armory USA in Bulgaria. It is made of black polyamide (nylon) with 30% glass fiber filings for strength. This is the same material used on military fiber polymer stock sets, including the AK-74 making it strong and rigid. Designed by Ivan Kolev, this stock is professional and comfortable when shouldered. There are two reasons you want this stock; (1) Confort, this stock is one of the most comfortable polymer stocks made. It is also 1-1/4" longer than the standard wood or polymer stocks made for the military and fits like a sporting rifle. When you lift this rifle to your shoulder it automatically aligns with the sights. The pistol grip section has the widest hand opening of any stock to accomodate small or large hands. The surface is textured to give you a secure grip

 

Available at Tickbite Supply at a greatly reduced price (because nobody but you poor ban state residents need them any more).

 

Out of curiosity, why would you not recommend the Choate stock? Its american made so with it and the FCG I am set for 922r and the recoil pad and spacer system for adjusting the LOP made the Choate stock seem like a better option.

 

As an FYI American made mags for three 922r parts is not an option for me in this ban state. Pre-ban mill surplus 30rd mags can be found without much trouble though... but this means that I need to swap out four parts for 922r compliance.

[nalioth 405]

Out of curiosity, why would you not recommend the Choate stock? Its american made so with it and the FCG I am set for 922r and the recoil pad and spacer system for adjusting the LOP made the Choate stock seem like a better option.

 

As an FYI American made mags for three 922r parts is not an option for me in this ban state. Pre-ban mill surplus 30rd mags can be found without much trouble though... but this means that I need to swap out four parts for 922r compliance.

The Bulgarian stock is superior to the Choate, but if you need American parts. . .

 

You realize the the feds say a thumbhole stock contains a "pistol grip", right?

[massaiga 8]

Don't forget to permanently attach that flash hider because if it's threaded on it will count against you.

 

You sure about that? There was a reason I quoted the law in the original post... quoted right from the law. The semi-colons seperate the items on the list and as such "(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; " would mean that either a suppressor or a threaded barrel would count as one item on the list.

 

Also make sure a thumbhole stock isn't considered a pistol grip (in some states they are).

 

Anyone have more info about this for Mass? I did an search online and I could not find a definitive answer. The Feds did not consider them to be PGs during the federal AWB years and in general the Mass law basically reads verbatim to the federal one... but I would hat this to be "At the discretion of the AG" or some such bullshit.

[nalioth 405]

Don't forget to permanently attach that flash hider because if it's threaded on it will count against you.

 

You sure about that? There was a reason I quoted the law in the original post... quoted right from the law. The semi-colons seperate the items on the list and as such "(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; " would mean that either a suppressor or a threaded barrel would count as one item on the list.

 

Just permanently attach a J-Tac or some other muzzle brake.

 

You won't have to worry about the muzzle end, at that point.

[lakedweller 10]

You can't beat these:

 

 

Manufactured in Bulgaria for Global Trades. They're glass reinforced nylon and danged near indestructible.

 

From the Global Trades website:

This new buttstock fits any standard stamped receiver AK, and is made for Armory USA in Bulgaria. It is made of black polyamide (nylon) with 30% glass fiber filings for strength. This is the same material used on military fiber polymer stock sets, including the AK-74 making it strong and rigid. Designed by Ivan Kolev, this stock is professional and comfortable when shouldered. There are two reasons you want this stock; (1) Confort, this stock is one of the most comfortable polymer stocks made. It is also 1-1/4" longer than the standard wood or polymer stocks made for the military and fits like a sporting rifle. When you lift this rifle to your shoulder it automatically aligns with the sights. The pistol grip section has the widest hand opening of any stock to accomodate small or large hands. The surface is textured to give you a secure grip

 

Available at Tickbite Supply at a greatly reduced price (because nobody but you poor ban state residents need them any more).

 

Got one and love it ...... trying to figure out the best way to put a sling on it .......

Edited July 9, 2009 by Lakedweller

[SOPMOD 254]

Pistol grip has actual utility in your weapon handling a flash suppressor is something that "might" help in an armed conflict occasionally at night or in low light conditions.

[nalioth 405]

Got one and love it ...... trying to figure out the best way to put a sling on it .......

That's easy.

 

A solution to the problem.

[thehopping1 105]

So I am planning a 7.62x39 conversion project and I wanted to gather people's opinions on this. Here in Massachusetts we are still subject to the AWB and as such I have to be very careful during my conversion if I want to stay legal.

 

So for me the part I have to worry about is the entire list-o-evil-parts bs. If post-conversion my 7.62x39 has more than one item off the list below it is an illegal assault weapon in Mass...

 

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) a grenade launcher;

 

So my question is if you could only have one thing on that list what would it be? Right now I am leaning towards a Dragunov style thumb-hole grip (probably the one from Choate) and a flash suppressor. My other option would be a standard pistol grip, fixed stock and no suppressor.

 

And yes... I would pick grenade launcher if the grenades were not an issue also

I personally would go with a brake over a flash hider, more usefull. But from the list, I would say a pistol grip would be the best upgrade. Plus Saiga's look better with pistol grips rather than the built in the stock grips, IMO.

[fxhart 14]

There's a muzzle brake called FSC47 that is classified as a muzzle brake but has some flash hiding capabilities.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I have to deal with the same BS laws in NY.

 

I went with a pistol grip on my x39 (but I did use that stock Nalioth posted, on my S12. Love it, great stock).

 

YMMV, but I'd much rather have a PG than anything else on the list.

[n102788 6]

I have to deal with the same BS laws in NY.

 

I went with a pistol grip on my x39 (but I did use that stock Nalioth posted, on my S12. Love it, great stock).

 

YMMV, but I'd much rather have a PG than anything else on the list.

 

I live in NY too, its a bitch, but it could be worse, i went with the pg too, i would love a threaded barrel but thats a no no.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I have to deal with the same BS laws in NY.

 

I went with a pistol grip on my x39 (but I did use that stock Nalioth posted, on my S12. Love it, great stock).

 

YMMV, but I'd much rather have a PG than anything else on the list.

 

I live in NY too, its a bitch, but it could be worse, i went with the pg too, i would love a threaded barrel but thats a no no.

 

You could have the barrel threaded and have a brake permanently attached, and it won't count as an "evil" feature, if you want.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I agree with several other posters here. If it's one or the other, get a pistol grip. It makes more of a difference than a brake. I'm just glad that I can have both on my rifle here in CO.. wait, no I can't.. not if I've had a drink, in my own home. Sorry, tough not to let my mind wander back to the bullshit state law I've been charged with that caused my SGL20 to be seized by the local pd.

[JK-47 33]

Had to make the same choice as NYS resident, I went with the pistol grip. It adds to ergonomics and makes mag changes quicker/easier.

[Big Boss 21]

 

NYer here, I recommend going with the pistol grip as well.

[Phoenix Maximus 1]

I agree with several other posters here. If it's one or the other, get a pistol grip. It makes more of a difference than a brake. I'm just glad that I can have both on my rifle here in CO.. wait, no I can't.. not if I've had a drink, in my own home. Sorry, tough not to let my mind wander back to the bullshit state law I've been charged with that caused my SGL20 to be seized by the local pd.

 

sidebar -

 

that's REALLY and TRULY FUCKED UP!! WOW!

 

 

 

 

anyways, definitely a PG, flash suppressors really are gonna be more for looks as I doubt you'll end up in a low light fire fight.... and if you do a PG would still help more I think

[uzitiger 193]

My recommendation is either the pistol grip or if you must have a thumbhole stock then go with the either the Ivan Kolev or Choate Dragunov style stock. The pistol grip gives you a better shooting platform.

 

 

The Choate Dragunov style stock can be adjusted for pull length with spacers. Choate has some innovative heavy duty products and they have a lifetime guarantee. I visited Choate's shop in Arkansas eight years ago and he gave me a plastic knife which I had to pay to have mailed to my home because I was flying back and did not want trouble with airport security. They were the first to make shotgun magazine tube extensions and folding stock.

 

It's strange that in most of the states where firearms are produced the gun laws are restrictive starting with the birthplace of liberty, Massachusetts. Connecticut, New York, California and Illinois are equally as bad. You would think the voters in these states who work on for the gun makers would convince their friends and relatives to vote for pro gun legislators (state and federal) and governors who would protect their livelihoods.

[stix213 3]

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) a grenade launcher;

 

And yes... I would pick grenade launcher if the grenades were not an issue also

 

I still want to vote grenade launcher

 

But seriously though, I didn't catch if you had or had not converted your rifle yet, but if you haven't then the thumbhole dragunov skeleton stock RAA puts out and ships some rifles with (the one I use) definitely doesn't have a pistol grip "that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" because of how set back it is. Then you can pick whichever other feature you like.

 

If not then I'd vote pistol grip, which I'd do if I didn't like this stock already.

 

Edit: Forget my skeleton stock suggestion, I actually bothered to read your post again and you are doing the conversion so this one won't work

Edited July 22, 2009 by stix213