Other benfits of forming a Trust?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I've gone through the "Trust" sticky up top already and don't see anything on this............

 

I will be researching the ins-n-outs of forming a trust in regards to NFA gear, for when I get to SC, as I already have quite a few goodies I'd like to get my hands on.

 

But in the mean time..................

 

Are there any other benefits of forming a trust, that don't relate to guns? What else can one use their trust for?

[tover26 18]

Some of the investors in my current employer have set up a trust for an interesting purpose. The trust recieves:

• Interest payments
  
• Dividends
  

 

The actual person receives principal and any stock sale monies. By doing this, they avoid paying capital dividends and interest income taxes until they get the money out of the trust. All of their trusts are labled as 'revocable trusts'.

 

A number of them have also put large chunks of property into a trust to ensure that their land stays undeveloped (or whatever)... many of them got subsidies and tax concessions on the trust/land setaside from their county governments including property tax etc. By doing this, any money they spend "on the trust land" becomes tax deductible as well.

[GerryV 14]

Trusts are a very useful tool when you get into your twilight years and you start seeing the vultures, errr I mean concerned family members circling around. It's interesting how people start acting if they think they might be getting left something. Unfortunately, all too often, when family members find out that they've been left out of the will or aren't getting what they want they decide to steal all they can before the family member passes. We had to set one up for an uncle as some of his worthless children were trying to exploit and rob him blind in his last few years. We set up the Irrevocable Trust with a life estate so that he was still receiving all of the money he needed to live on from the trust, but all of his assets were owned by the trust. The worthless greedy SOB family members were pissed beyond belief when my uncle passed and the trust liquidated all of his assets and distributed them to the local VFW and other military groups per his wishes. Wills can be all too easily probated, but if an Irrevocable Trust is set-up properly, it is almost impossible to break them due to the expense that the worthless greedy family member would have to incur. Trusts, especially Irrevocable Trusts, provide infinitely more protection than a traditional will, thus ensuring that your desires will be carried out once you're gone.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.

Edited September 1, 2009 by GerryV

[G O B 3,516]

As I am getting closer to retirement, I am thinking of setting up a trust to ensure that my assets are going to go where I want them to go. On a similar vein - make SHURE that during funerals, a TRUSTED friend is at the house with a LOADED gun. My Father taught me that one, as during his Grandfathers funeral the house was completely cleaned out. When my first wifes dad passed, my good friend Paul chased off 2 separate sets of "relatives" off with a pistol!

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Thanks for the info.

 

I've been doing some more reading and it seems a trust can be very useful.

 

I also found this site: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ . Looks like a lot of good NFA info. I'll post a link in the sticky, too.

[elvis christ 451]

The guy I work for (AKA my boss), was telling me he has all kinds of intricacies set up in his trust. Some of the things that stuck out in my mind that were included were 1) a provision that if his daughter payed her way through school, or somehow or another came up with all the money to get through school (the point being that she took it upon herself to be responsible), that they day she graduated she would be reimbursed fully for her debts. She won't know that this is stipulated until she graduates from college on her own accord, so if it happens, great, but if it doesn't, she won't ever know that she was out anything. Another one was that that his daughter would get a house when she had her first kid, unless the kid was born out of wedlock, but again, she doesn't know that. There were some other things relating to the business, like, if he dies, his stock will be offered to the person who is chosen to run the business in his place, because he is of the belief that the only way to get someone to run a business in a responsible fashion is to give them a monetary incentive.

 

There's tons of stuff he was telling me about it, but that's pretty much what I can remember.

[elvis christ 451]

Another thing, what are the provisions for owning a machine gun registered under a trust? Are you allowed to manufacture your own stuff, or are you limited to purchases only?

[Vultite 57]

Another thing, what are the provisions for owning a machine gun registered under a trust? Are you allowed to manufacture your own stuff, or are you limited to purchases only?

Good questions to ask, making items like a silencer is allowed with a different form. But if your going to do that, you might as well go all the way and become incorperated, and go that route and make $$ from newly obtained investment

Edited September 3, 2009 by Vultite

[elvis christ 451]

Another thing, what are the provisions for owning a machine gun registered under a trust? Are you allowed to manufacture your own stuff, or are you limited to purchases only?

Good questions to ask, making items like a silencer is allowed with a different form. But if your going to do that, you might as well go all the way and become incorperated, and go that route and make $$ from newly obtained investment

 

I'd just like to make my own full auto gun, for me, but I don't want to have to pay $500 a year tax, just for the privilege of making a gun for myself, one time.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Another thing, what are the provisions for owning a machine gun registered under a trust? Are you allowed to manufacture your own stuff, or are you limited to purchases only?

 

I haven't come across anything like this in any reading I've been doing recently. Assuming you're a regular Schmoe (meaning, not a <whatever it's called that is allowed "dealer sample" MG's>), I still think you're only allowed pre-86 transferable MG's.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Trusts are a very useful tool when you get into your twilight years and you start seeing the vultures, errr I mean concerned family members circling around. It's interesting how people start acting if they think they might be getting left something. Unfortunately, all too often, when family members find out that they've been left out of the will or aren't getting what they want they decide to steal all they can before the family member passes. We had to set one up for an uncle as some of his worthless children were trying to exploit and rob him blind in his last few years. We set up the Irrevocable Trust with a life estate so that he was still receiving all of the money he needed to live on from the trust, but all of his assets were owned by the trust. The worthless greedy SOB family members were pissed beyond belief when my uncle passed and the trust liquidated all of his assets and distributed them to the local VFW and other military groups per his wishes. Wills can be all too easily probated, but if an Irrevocable Trust is set-up properly, it is almost impossible to break them due to the expense that the worthless greedy family member would have to incur. Trusts, especially Irrevocable Trusts, provide infinitely more protection than a traditional will, thus ensuring that your desires will be carried out once you're gone.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.

 

Yeah, the ability to "lock up" properties and assets in a trust sounds like a win-win. I'm reading now, that a trust can keep your properties/assets from getting into any hands, other than the hands you want them in, after you die. A "will" can easily be contested by greedy family members even if the deceased had the "will" squared away years before their death and were in sound mind when doing so.

 

My girl's great uncle left his house and everything in it, to her parents in his will. Now that he's passed, his (greedy ass) brother is taking my girl's parents to court and trying to get everything. From what I'm reading, a "trust" would make this VERY hard for said greedy other uncle to attempt.

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

Trusts are a very useful tool when you get into your twilight years and you start seeing the vultures, errr I mean concerned family members circling around. It's interesting how people start acting if they think they might be getting left something. Unfortunately, all too often, when family members find out that they've been left out of the will or aren't getting what they want they decide to steal all they can before the family member passes. We had to set one up for an uncle as some of his worthless children were trying to exploit and rob him blind in his last few years. We set up the Irrevocable Trust with a life estate so that he was still receiving all of the money he needed to live on from the trust, but all of his assets were owned by the trust. The worthless greedy SOB family members were pissed beyond belief when my uncle passed and the trust liquidated all of his assets and distributed them to the local VFW and other military groups per his wishes. Wills can be all too easily probated, but if an Irrevocable Trust is set-up properly, it is almost impossible to break them due to the expense that the worthless greedy family member would have to incur. Trusts, especially Irrevocable Trusts, provide infinitely more protection than a traditional will, thus ensuring that your desires will be carried out once you're gone.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.

 

Yeah, the ability to "lock up" properties and assets in a trust sounds like a win-win. I'm reading now, that a trust can keep your properties/assets from getting into any hands, other than the hands you want them in, after you die. A "will" can easily be contested by greedy family members even if the deceased had the "will" squared away years before their death and were in sound mind when doing so.

 

My girl's great uncle left his house and everything in it, to her parents in his will. Now that he's passed, his (greedy ass) brother is taking my girl's parents to court and trying to get everything. From what I'm reading, a "trust" would make this VERY hard for said greedy other uncle to attempt.

 

Hold on a minute....Trusts can be a good asset protection vehicle if you have a lot of money (above a few million between you and your spouse) but they are not for everyone and a good will properly written can tie up your assets or provide for distribution of them in the way you want. Most trusts are revokable, not worth the paper they are written on and really don't provide the protections you guys think they do...and if they are revokable provide an available resource which would need to be spent (at least under WA medicaid laws) if you ever need to go into a nursing home where costs can run up to 10k a month ... in those twiflight years. I could write a book on this subject...and state probate laws may control...such as in CA everyone uses a trust to circumvent probate laws...my best advice to you guys is seek proper legal advice from an elder law attorney or preferablely a NAELA attorney before you start getting into these things as often times trusts are poorly written and often are poorly expained. (Not every attorney knows how to draw up a good will or why certain phrases are contained in them) Also if EVERYTHING you own in not in the trust name you will not avoid a probate...that is why trusts contain pour-over wills. And yes aside from being a retired fireman I am an elder law attorney and my advanced legal degree (L.LM.) is in taxation and estate planning including trusts. Personally I bust more trusts then I write. Wills can always be contested in WA but only if the person did not have capisity or was under undo duress at the time of signing. It is very hard to prevail in a will contest and none of my wills have ever been struck down.... but hey I would gladly write a trust for 3k instead of doing a simple will for $350.

[elvis christ 451]

2 words: Irrevocable trust. From what I understand, it's extremely difficult to contest one of these. But +1 on having an attorney that specializes in that sort of thing draw it up. Don't get the guy that gets you out of your public intox to author your trust.

 

 

22_shooter, my main reason for wanting to build my own gun is that I just don't think I could ever bring myself to drop however much coin it costs to purchase a pre-86 gun. Even if it was something super awesome, I just couldn't do it. A full auto NFA AK is what, around 8 grand, and that's pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as NFA items are concerned, right? What with MP5's, AR's, etc, you can easily spend $10,000 on a gun. I just couldn't do it. That's a fucking Hyundai.

[sudaevpps43 31]

Another thing, what are the provisions for owning a machine gun registered under a trust? Are you allowed to manufacture your own stuff, or are you limited to purchases only?

 

I haven't come across anything like this in any reading I've been doing recently. Assuming you're a regular Schmoe (meaning, not a <whatever it's called that is allowed "dealer sample" MG's>), I still think you're only allowed pre-86 transferable MG's.

 

Correct, irregardless of how you file the NFA paperwork (whether in the name of an individual, a trust, an LLC, or a corporation) you could still legally only own pre-86 machine guns. Doing NFA paperwork under a trust, LLC, or corporation grants no special legal privilege to get any NFA items you couldn't also legally get filing as an individual.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

2 words: Irrevocable trust. From what I understand, it's extremely difficult to contest one of these. But +1 on having an attorney that specializes in that sort of thing draw it up. Don't get the guy that gets you out of your public intox to author your trust.

 

 

22_shooter, my main reason for wanting to build my own gun is that I just don't think I could ever bring myself to drop however much coin it costs to purchase a pre-86 gun. Even if it was something super awesome, I just couldn't do it. A full auto NFA AK is what, around 8 grand, and that's pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as NFA items are concerned, right? What with MP5's, AR's, etc, you can easily spend $10,000 on a gun. I just couldn't do it. That's a fucking Hyundai.

 

 

It's even higher than that... I've seen registered AKs going for $10k+ lately, registered MP5s $16k+ and bottom-of-the-barrel registered MGs are M10s and M11s (as little as $3k for an M10 isn't too uncommon). Uzis, Reising MGs, and Sten guns are in the $5-$8k range mostly. Too rich for my blood, even for the relative "cheapies".

 

And as for becoming an SOT just to manufacture a MG for personal use, that doesn't work. The purpose of that license is to do business; the only legal purpose for creating a machine gun is for sale to LE/government or transfer to a duly licensed FFL as a sample, with a letter from a LE/military agency requesting demonstration. If you are not engaging in business, you obtained the license fraudulently. Additionally, you don't get to keep your post-86 machine guns once your FFL expires. They must be sold to another SOT, destroyed, or turned over to the ATF. Some of our resident FFLs could state things better/more accurately than me, as I am only restating what I have read. No legal advice here, just idle observations, I'm not a lawyer, etc. etc.

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

Doh ... I see where your going with the NFA trusts. I would love to read one but the link sent me to a Sig page and from there I was lost. Maybe a direct link???? or a copy and paste???

 

I read that first attorney's article on the NFA Trust thread...lets just say I think he took some liberties with the advantages to trusts but the bottom line is if ATF is recongizing these trusts as it appears from some of the other reading, that is half the battle. I think you could couple this with an estate planning document or as a stand alone. I don't think I would use something off the internet ...legal zoom etc as documents are written for 50 states and may not contain stuff specific to your state or situation (or legal rights) ....but they read good...

 

As for Irrovokable trusts there are some issues there...

Edited September 4, 2009 by TO THE FLOOR IN A 63

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Trusts are a very useful tool when you get into your twilight years and you start seeing the vultures, errr I mean concerned family members circling around. It's interesting how people start acting if they think they might be getting left something. Unfortunately, all too often, when family members find out that they've been left out of the will or aren't getting what they want they decide to steal all they can before the family member passes. We had to set one up for an uncle as some of his worthless children were trying to exploit and rob him blind in his last few years. We set up the Irrevocable Trust with a life estate so that he was still receiving all of the money he needed to live on from the trust, but all of his assets were owned by the trust. The worthless greedy SOB family members were pissed beyond belief when my uncle passed and the trust liquidated all of his assets and distributed them to the local VFW and other military groups per his wishes. Wills can be all too easily probated, but if an Irrevocable Trust is set-up properly, it is almost impossible to break them due to the expense that the worthless greedy family member would have to incur. Trusts, especially Irrevocable Trusts, provide infinitely more protection than a traditional will, thus ensuring that your desires will be carried out once you're gone.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.

 

Yeah, the ability to "lock up" properties and assets in a trust sounds like a win-win. I'm reading now, that a trust can keep your properties/assets from getting into any hands, other than the hands you want them in, after you die. A "will" can easily be contested by greedy family members even if the deceased had the "will" squared away years before their death and were in sound mind when doing so.

 

My girl's great uncle left his house and everything in it, to her parents in his will. Now that he's passed, his (greedy ass) brother is taking my girl's parents to court and trying to get everything. From what I'm reading, a "trust" would make this VERY hard for said greedy other uncle to attempt.

 

Hold on a minute....Trusts can be a good asset protection vehicle if you have a lot of money (above a few million between you and your spouse) but they are not for everyone and a good will properly written can tie up your assets or provide for distribution of them in the way you want. Most trusts are revokable, not worth the paper they are written on and really don't provide the protections you guys think they do...and if they are revokable provide an available resource which would need to be spent (at least under WA medicaid laws) if you ever need to go into a nursing home where costs can run up to 10k a month ... in those twiflight years. I could write a book on this subject...and state probate laws may control...such as in CA everyone uses a trust to circumvent probate laws...my best advice to you guys is seek proper legal advice from an elder law attorney or preferablely a NAELA attorney before you start getting into these things as often times trusts are poorly written and often are poorly expained. (Not every attorney knows how to draw up a good will or why certain phrases are contained in them) Also if EVERYTHING you own in not in the trust name you will not avoid a probate...that is why trusts contain pour-over wills. And yes aside from being a retired fireman I am an elder law attorney and my advanced legal degree (L.LM.) is in taxation and estate planning including trusts. Personally I bust more trusts then I write. Wills can always be contested in WA but only if the person did not have capisity or was under undo duress at the time of signing. It is very hard to prevail in a will contest and none of my wills have ever been struck down.... but hey I would gladly write a trust for 3k instead of doing a simple will for $350.

 

Well thanks for the clarification. Like I said, from what I was reading, everything made it seem as if a trust is more secure than a regular "will". I don't have too many worries as far as my entire properties/assets (which isn't much, being a semi-broke 26 year old) being in a "trust". The main reason I'm looking for a trust right now, is the whole NFA reason. I was just curious as to what other benefits a trust would offer down the road, for info's sake.

 

22_shooter, my main reason for wanting to build my own gun is that I just don't think I could ever bring myself to drop however much coin it costs to purchase a pre-86 gun. Even if it was something super awesome, I just couldn't do it. A full auto NFA AK is what, around 8 grand, and that's pretty much the bottom of the barrel as far as NFA items are concerned, right? What with MP5's, AR's, etc, you can easily spend $10,000 on a gun. I just couldn't do it. That's a fucking Hyundai.

 

I hear ya. I was just saying that a "trust", as far as I know, doesn't get around anything, regarding MG's.

 

Guess ya gotta pay to play.

 

+1 to what Shandlanos said....I remember reading that Mac's are the cheapest of the MG bunch. I think MCASgt New River was looking into one awhile back, in the $3K area. I consider myself "semi-broke", but I have some "rainy day" money, and I wouldn't mind dropping $3K on something that would give me the FA giggles .