vintagedude88 16 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Okay, you've all seen my threads lately asking about the MSA adapter for the S223. I just picked up my S223 from DROS jail that I got off another Calgunner. I also got a MMG and an MSA AR adapter as well. So I definitely have a project on my hands. The gun is converted and I got it transferred with NO Pistol Grip. Heres a photochop image of what it will look like once the MSA adapter is fitted. So what's the problem???? I've just been offerred a chance to trade my two HD guns (40 Sigma pistol & 12ga Mossy pump)for a complete CMMG AR with A2 butt stock. Should I do it? Or is it unnecessary now that I have the S223 going? What do you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well the guy changed his mind and its now just the Mossy for a complete CMMG lower with A2 stock. Still a good deal? Or should I pass? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Well the guy changed his mind and its now just the Mossy for a complete CMMG lower with A2 stock. Still a good deal? Or should I pass? I think trading a fully functional AR for a mossy pump would be a solid deal... EDITED: due to me missing a important part of a above post. Edited October 28, 2009 by Nailbomb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 if u dont use the mossy much trade it for the complete lower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 theres definately some benefits to have two guns that use the same ammo.. and they are pretty different platforms.. I'd probably go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Thats one of the major benefits of the MSA adapter....the ability to share mags and ammo with another weapons platform. I'd go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am a solid Saiga guy, make no doubt about it, but an AR15 isn't a bad thing to own either! More accurate to longer ranges....but the SHTF, the Saiga is the first one I'd grab out the door...nuff said! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am a solid Saiga guy, make no doubt about it, but an AR15 isn't a bad thing to own either! More accurate to longer ranges....but the SHTF, the Saiga is the first one I'd grab out the door...nuff said! I'm deffinatly an AK person, but I also have 2 AR's. They are good guns, extremely accurate, and versatile with different uppers. I say that to say this, I don't think I would trade a good 12 gauge for just a lower that I could build new for $250 or so. It would have to have a lot of goodies in the lower to make up for not having the 12 ga. firepower. You need to remember, you'll have another $300-$500 in an upper for it. If you want an AR check out CMMG and/or Essential Arms. EA makes fine receivers, and their lower kits are very good too. Just my .02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am a solid Saiga guy, make no doubt about it, but an AR15 isn't a bad thing to own either! More accurate to longer ranges....but the SHTF, the Saiga is the first one I'd grab out the door...nuff said! I'm deffinatly an AK person, but I also have 2 AR's. They are good guns, extremely accurate, and versatile with different uppers. I say that to say this, I don't think I would trade a good 12 gauge for just a lower that I could build new for $250 or so. It would have to have a lot of goodies in the lower to make up for not having the 12 ga. firepower. You need to remember, you'll have another $300-$500 in an upper for it. If you want an AR check out CMMG and/or Essential Arms. EA makes fine receivers, and their lower kits are very good too. Just my .02 Thanks Renegadebuck. I was thinking the same but was not sure. That $300 - $500 on the upper would be tough right now with the Holidays coming and I would be without a viable Kali HD gun for a while. I could substitute my S12 for HD but its "too evil" for the Kali environment and to explain to the cops after the fact. BTW, thanks to all who have contributed. This is a great supportive forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I dunno. The "need" for an AR is not something I've ever felt; in fact I find the gun somewhat confusing. It's got the accuracy for long-range shooting, but not the power. Beyond 200 yards, the .223 is a barely adequate rodent killer, not a man killer. Inside 200 yards, where the .223's power can be taken seriously, the Saiga's accuracy is sufficient for defense purposes. For defensive targets beyond 200 yards, a semi-automatic isn't needed. Up close and personal, it is. It seems the most cost effective way to get long-range accuracy is with a bolt gun. If you want an accurate woodchuck gun get a Savage 110 or a Rem 700. Trick it out and go all tactical with it, if that's your thing; but consider a serious varmit cartridge like the .22-250 or .243. If you want an accurate long-range defensive weapon, then again, a Savage or Remington makes sense; just choose .308 for the cartridge. I've no doubt that the AR15 would be a nice gun to own. Trouble is that its capabilities seem contradictory and that often leads to frustration. FWIW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lashlarue 1 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 What you need is a good lawyer!Removable magazines are illegal in California. Even the AR's you see there are limited to a fixed 10 rounder.http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=71 Pretty sure Saiga's in their normal imported form are illegal as the 10 round magazine is removable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 What you need is a good lawyer!Removable magazines are illegal in California. Even the AR's you see there are limited to a fixed 10 rounder.http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=71 Pretty sure Saiga's in their normal imported form are illegal as the 10 round magazine is removable. What you need is a lawyer to explain to you the laws of California, because reading and re-posting crap which other people on the internets have posted isn't going to do anything, but make you look like a fool and/or troll. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lashlarue 1 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Somebody got their panties in a wad. I've been a member of Calguns.net for five years. Maybe I was a bit blunt but a $50,000 fine and 5 years in the penitentary is what the OP is facing by building any rifle with a easily removable magazine.The California BATF is less forgiving than the federal BATF.His Saiga may be 922r compliant but it's still illegal in California and the OP admitted he removed the PG to get it registered.Even with the original 10 round mag he needs a secondary device that requires a tool to remove the magazine. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186405 That thread covers modifying high capacity mags to hold only ten rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I followed the Cal flowchart and it seems legal. Although the magazine is detachable, the OP has no form of PG, muzzle device, collapsable stock, or grenade launcher. The OP did not remove the PG for registration. The OP had the rifle transfered to him without a PG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lashlarue 1 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Saiga rifles are listed in section "C" on page two of pdf flow chart.Which means they must have a permanently attached magazine. In simple terms he needs a tool to remove the 10 round magazine.Bullet buttons are considered legal and are the most popular in the state of Kalifornia. FWIW I have a preban Colt AR, that is being retired after 2500 rounds, a Galil, and lastly a Saiga223. And I am thrilled I don't live in Kalifornia Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Obviously, you don't understand Kali laws very well in regards to OLL. Nor have you the notion of a "featureless" build. Another is the difference between a PG and an MMG. The "Saiga" that is listed in section "C" is the one formerly imported in the U.S. by E.A.A. The Saiga guns brought in by R.A.A. are legal to own all day long in Kalifornia without the need of a maglock. Ask any shop that currently sells them here in Kali. I know of at least three local to me that sells them "without" a maglock. As for the PG versus MMG, look here for the explanation of what it is and what it does. http://www.monstermangrip.com/ Also, there are many AKs by various builders (Century Arms, Lancaster, SIA, etc.) that are also being sold without the maglock and without a PG. It is possible because one can opt for the above mentioned MMG or elect to install their own maglock device if they decide to install a PG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FoT 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Pretty sure Saiga's in their normal imported form are illegal as the 10 round magazine is removable. Sorry you are wrong. Detachable mags are fine on featureless builds. You can even use pre-ban 30 round mags (if 922r compliant) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Reading through this thread makes me so happy I don't live in CA,not to mention all the other problems there. To the OP's question whether you "need" one may hinge on what your end use for it would be and how well each respective rifle will fill that use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FoT 0 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Reading through this thread makes me so happy I don't live in CA,not to mention all the other problems there. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have lived in Co and Ky. Was very happy to move back to Ca. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FoT 0 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Somebody got their panties in a wad. I've been a member of Calguns.net for five years. Maybe I was a bit blunt but a $50,000 fine and 5 years in the penitentary is what the OP is facing by building any rifle with a easily removable magazine.The California BATF is less forgiving than the federal BATF.His Saiga may be 922r compliant but it's still illegal in California and the OP admitted he removed the PG to get it registered.Even with the original 10 round mag he needs a secondary device that requires a tool to remove the magazine. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186405 That thread covers modifying high capacity mags to hold only ten rounds. Funny when searching your name it shows a sign up date in 2007 and all of 22 post total on Calguns. You are a FUD spreader for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cruddymutt 1 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Living in Cali isnt all that bad. Most the stuff I cant have, I dont want. There is a loophole to every rule. Saigas are legal, I have 3. I have C&R guns/ammo delivered to my house. Its not the best but it could be worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 No way no how I could put up with PRK but good luck to you. I wouldnt touch an AR given you have the S223, invest in a full power round like a 308 which just so happens can be a Saiga also. Stay far far away from AR-10s. The DSA FAL has an excellent if pricey reputation, only FAL I would buy but opinions vary. Purchase Boston T. Party's ( pen name for Royce) "Bostons Gun Bible". Excellent source of information on all kinds of rifles that fit the battle rifle function as well as a ton of other need to know subjects. He pulls no punches and even likes the Saiga 308. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 No way no how I could put up with PRK but good luck to you. I wouldnt touch an AR given you have the S223, invest in a full power round like a 308 which just so happens can be a Saiga also. Stay far far away from AR-10s. The DSA FAL has an excellent if pricey reputation, only FAL I would buy but opinions vary. Purchase Boston T. Party's ( pen name for Royce) "Bostons Gun Bible". Excellent source of information on all kinds of rifles that fit the battle rifle function as well as a ton of other need to know subjects. He pulls no punches and even likes the Saiga 308. Thanks, I already have an S308. Picked it up with the S12 during the heat of the Obama scare. Wanted to make sure I got the heavy hitters first before getting all the rest of the little stuff. The S223 is for SHTF mainly because of the lighter portability of the .223/5.56 round and its mass availability. I've mentioned that it will get the MSA AR adapter to make it even more convenient. Its just that there is SO MUCH PROPAGANDA on the AR platform. I watch Outdoor Channel and all the shows, Shooting USA, Shooting Gallery, Best Defense and etc, all talk about the AR carbine. Hardly any mention of AK based rifles. Is it a political thing? I went with Saiga because of the cost and the AK reliability. If ARs weren't so costly, I probably would have an AR. Now that I know about the difference between gas piston vs. gas inpingement, I would now be only interested in AR like rifles with the gas piston system. The few that are out there, Sig, Robarms, and Ruger are all very pricey. So would it be un-American to NOT HAVE an AR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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