Slug-O 6 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 What are you thoughts on this now that you have it?? What mods did you do to your surefire mags and please post picts. are you reloading faster now. are the mags stable.......not falling out of your saiga12. I have an Tromix S17 and might get this and a mag catch also. thanks, SLug-O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 What are you thoughts on this now that you have it?? What mods did you do to your surefire mags and please post picts. are you reloading faster now. are the mags stable.......not falling out of your saiga12. I have an Tromix S17 and might get this and a mag catch also. thanks, SLug-O If you put a magwell on your S17 your drum won't work. I have been considering a surefire magwell on one of mine....Leon,I'll let you be the guinea pig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Just got mine. I plan to make some pictures after I try it out. I have several mags fit per instructions and a talk with Mr. Travers. It seems like a solid and possibly stronger way to support the mag. It is absolutely faster and easier, but sometimes I still hang up a little. That might be just a bit more tailoring on the mags, but expirimentation will tell. There is some side to side play that is annoying, but not significant enough to effect feeding. It just rattles a little. I think it makes the gun massively better, and I think I like the gun better this way than I would with a drum. I can load the mags full with 3" shells on a closed bolt with a simple straight push and very slight rock back. an extremely natural motion, especially with the gun on target. This requires no thought or real technique. With the rock and locks, I could do it, but I had to make sure to do do it just right, and occasionally had to fumble. This is clean and simple. It is better. There is no debate after using it. Never want to go back. I am considering making tapered shims and gluing them to the sides to tighten it up. I want to look into what kind of plastic they are and shoot them a bit before I start that though. I think they are glass reinforced ABS, but I am not positive, so maybe a slice of pipe shaved down and glued on, then filed to just short of snugness on the side dimension could help there. Edited November 5, 2009 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 As for the drum, with these, why do you need one? This just offers more fire power. Also you can make it drum ready in about 30 seconds with an allen wrench, so if you have the cash and the desire there is no downside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I'm waiting to see what MD arms comes up with before I think about anything. I have mostly AGP mags, I would be ok with parting with the two surefire mags I own as long as I can run the future MD mags, and my MD drum is a big deal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Just got mine. I plan to make some pictures after I try it out. I have several mags fit per instructions and a talk with Mr. Travers. It seems like a solid and possibly stronger way to support the mag. It is absolutely faster and easier, but sometimes I still hang up a little. That might be just a bit more tailoring on the mags, but experimentation will tell. There is some side to side play that is annoying, but not significant enough to effect feeding. It just rattles a little. I think it makes the gun massively better, and I think I like the gun better this way than I would with a drum. I can load the mags full with 3" shells on a closed bolt with a simple straight push and very slight rock back. an extremely natural motion, especially with the gun on target. This requires no thought or real technique. With the rock and locks, I could do it, but I had to make sure to do do it just right, and occasionally had to fumble. This is clean and simple. It is better. There is no debate after using it. Never want to go back. I am considering making tapered shims and gluing them to the sides to tighten it up. I want to look into what kind of plastic they are and shoot them a bit before I start that though. I think they are glass reinforced ABS, but I am not positive, so maybe a slice of pipe shaved down and glued on, then filed to just short of snugness on the side dimension could help there. When I fitted my JT Magwell I cut the front of the mags a tad too much. There was some travel up and down after the mag was inserted. I called Jack Travers and he explained in detail what was necessary for a perfect fit.I had used a Surefire 12 rnd. clear mag. Jack explained that the clear mag is a bit different in size than the black mags,he recommends the black mags. Instead of shims I used a 2 part epoxy for Poly type plastic. I built up the areas I ground down. After waiting (24hrs) I went and SLOWLY filed down each area until the fit was snug. I inserted and removed the mags about 15 times, checked to see where they were rubbing, and filed again a few strokes at a time. I also found if I "painted" the areas with a black marker I could see where the rubbing was. I also had a problem originally inserting the mag with speed. If I inserted straight up there was no hang up problem. Jack Travers told me to file down the raised rib that is just inside the Saiga receiver mag port in the receiver. The Mags now can be inserted much faster. Its great to have products from a builder that is both a engineer AND a competitive shooter. If it isn't FAST and RELIABLE it ISN'T on the gun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 thanks guys...............now please post photos of your mags and what you milled down in the shotgun to make it work... thanks, Slug-O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
z34matt 1 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) here you go, gun with magwell, then looking into the mag well, here's where you need to do a little milling, it's not much. then mags, left side is unmodified surefire, right side is a modified one in each of the pics, takes about 5 mins to cut em with a belt sander, about an hour to get them right if you use a dremel. mags are plenty stable, don't fall out, and reloads are much faster. Edited November 5, 2009 by z34matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 thats just what I needed..photos.........thank you......I will be placing my order today.......Slug-O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Armored-- Thanks for the nice pics. I think my forward reverse fit is pretty good.There is a little right and left play that I don't like. I too was considering Epoxy. What kind did you use? If I were offering any tips that I figured out it would be to radius the corners on the front of the mag as you fit it a little more than you remmove material off of the front. For mine when fit the way mr. Travers said, if the front of the mag was completely square with sharp corners as I removed material the corners would hit The radiuses of the receiver/magwell before the broad flat area. if I remove material until it will fit an then round the corners I would end up with a mag that was a bit loose in the fore and aft direction. I noticed this because I fit the first one a little snugger than was good and then cleaned up the edges and it was a bit looser. So with the next mag I did the corners a little more than the flat as I went. It was easier to get a good fit with less risk of removing too much. And I totally agree about the competition driven design. Everything that works every time. Nothing that doesn't. Controls big and simple enough to use with adrenaline jitters. Managed reciol for fast recovery... a mag that you can change quickly without finesse. That equals a very practical gun, and a practiced user. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) Also. Nice left side cocking setup Z34. Anything you would do differently? Edited November 6, 2009 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
z34matt 1 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Also. Nice left side cocking setup Z34. Anything you would do differently? I don't know, maybe cut the right side one off completely since I never use it, and put that on the left side. The left side one is big, probably doesn't need to be that big, but sure makes it hard to miss in a hurry. I'd probably also have it finished, maybe this winter, who knows. I kind of want to work on a left side safety too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Armored-- Thanks for the nice pics. I think my forward reverse fit is pretty good.There is a little right and left play that I don't like. I too was considering Epoxy. What kind did you use? If I were offering any tips that I figured out it would be to radius the corners on the front of the mag as you fit it a little more than you remmove material off of the front. For mine when fit the way mr. Travers said, if the front of the mag was completely square with sharp corners as I removed material the corners would hit The radiuses of the receiver/magwell before the broad flat area. if I remove material until it will fit an then round the corners I would end up with a mag that was a bit loose in the fore and aft direction. I noticed this because I fit the first one a little snugger than was good and then cleaned up the edges and it was a bit looser. So with the next mag I did the corners a little more than the flat as I went. It was easier to get a good fit with less risk of removing too much. And I totally agree about the competition driven design. Everything that works every time. Nothing that doesn't. Controls big and simple enough to use with adrenaline jitters. Managed reciol for fast recovery... a mag that you can change quickly without finesse. That equals a very practical gun, and a practiced user. THe thanks go to Z34. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What are you thoughts on this now that you have it?? What mods did you do to your surefire mags and please post picts. are you reloading faster now. are the mags stable.......not falling out of your saiga12. I have an Tromix S17 and might get this and a mag catch also. thanks, SLug-O If you put a magwell on your S17 your drum won't work. I have been considering a surefire magwell on one of mine....Leon,I'll let you be the guinea pig. My parts are ordered.we will meet at GG and put them on there........OK?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 What are you thoughts on this now that you have it?? What mods did you do to your surefire mags and please post picts. are you reloading faster now. are the mags stable.......not falling out of your saiga12. I have an Tromix S17 and might get this and a mag catch also. thanks, SLug-O PM inbound. If you put a magwell on your S17 your drum won't work. I have been considering a surefire magwell on one of mine....Leon,I'll let you be the guinea pig. My parts are ordered.we will meet at GG and put them on there........OK?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Well I got the mag well on.........pretty easy just take your time. I do have to say that my twister gas puck and limbsaver I got to try out yesterday at the range were worth every penny. I love them. Not its time to mod. my surefire mags... Slug-O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Completely off topic............ Are you the same "Slug-O" with the sleep walking/eating wife? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Maybe.......................... Im still alive to talk/post about it................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Racer 27 37 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe.......................... Im still alive to talk/post about it................ Nice to see you here. That is a funny post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Maybe.......................... Im still alive to talk/post about it................ I was watching that thread closely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slug-O 6 Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 done............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 done............ Damn! That's gorgeous! Nice job. I'm liking that Troy VFG, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lframke 1 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 done............ If there is not a HUGE grease/oil stain on that beautiful upholstery you don't use enough on the gun! If you lubed it properly someone is SURE to kill you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 done............ If there is not a HUGE grease/oil stain on that beautiful upholstery you don't use enough on the gun! If you lubed it properly someone is SURE to kill you! ..........and he's already in the dog house with his wife, the last I heard. He's screwed now, for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Debt 350 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Are these wider then the receiver at the point they attach to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Yes, but it feels like it is or should be a factory part. It is enough wider that it locates solidly around the radius where the bottom of the receiver is stamped. It does not feel like it protrudes, or is some tacked on part. I don't notice that it is wider, but when I look at it for that, it is about 3/32nds wider on each side than the body of the reciever. This is about the actual thickness of the magwell sides (not counting the flare) It does not stick out enough to be a snag, or to feel if you were carrying the shotgun duty style with a sling across your chest. Someone handling a saiga with a JTE magwell (who hadn't been told about it) would probably be surprised to learn that the part is added on. Some people I have showed it to were. That's the kind of fit you get. The base flare does stick out though. I don't think it is a bother, but there are some sharp corners that could have been rounded or beveled. Since mine is already anodized I left them square. If I had got one of his older "in the white" batch, I probably would have filed the sharps off before painting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) z34matt I use the surefire magwell also and love it. In your pic it looks like you have a factory Russian five rounder...did you mill that down to fit the surefire magwell as well? If yes...howd you do it? Thanks Eric here you go, gun with magwell, then looking into the mag well, here's where you need to do a little milling, it's not much. then mags, left side is unmodified surefire, right side is a modified one in each of the pics, takes about 5 mins to cut em with a belt sander, about an hour to get them right if you use a dremel. mags are plenty stable, don't fall out, and reloads are much faster. Edited December 11, 2009 by towerofpower93 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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