DLT 1,646 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've actually never handled a Thompson, but everything I've seen on TV and read about them makes me think that they are basically an American designed AK. Tough, reliable, great knock down power, well balanced, etc. Has anyone here actually used one and compared it to an AK? The more I think about it, the more I'm getting that itch.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) think they havn't been compared because although both reliable, they are as different as can be.. While neither is particularly accurate and focus on reliability over accuracy, the tommy gun is a SMG using .45 ACP where as the AK is a rifle using the 7.62.. The actions are both extremely different. Plus if I remember the tommy guns effective range is like 100 yards, which is less then a third of the AKs.. They sort of fit into a different categories. Interesting comparisson though, I know less than I'd like to about the tommy gun. Edited November 24, 2009 by volkov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ulf 1 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've used both in field conditions many times over the years. Thompsons are heavy, less reliable that the AK, often require serious fitting for mags to work and are effective out to about 100m. The civilian semi versions with 16" bbls not very well balanced. All that said, if you've got the money for a Class 3 gun, they are a GREAT investment and fun to shoot! I don't know that I can add much to what folk already know about the AK, except to say that in my experience, its positive reputation is WELL deserved. All things being equal and not having the money for either in Class 3 format, I'm happy with my civvy semi AKs and Saigas. HTH -Ulf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 The Tommy & the AK are similar in the place they take in the firearms culture primarily due to Hollywood. If only someone made the Thompson in semi auto & new... They just have a certain style to them. http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1zv4PWfR34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=734GiH8q3Rw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've got an apple, let's see how it does against your orange! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seanie 6 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 If only someone made the Thompson in semi auto & new... They just have a certain style to them. If only... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janusthephoenix 24 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've got an apple, let's see how it does against your orange! True. The Thompson was a SMG. The AK is a rifle. It's kind of like comparing a MP5 to a M14. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well first, the "Tommy" gun is a blowback design..and I have shot one and didn't like it at all. The damn thing is heavy as hell, not too accurate, and it does hold stopping power...but not the range that an AK has. I like Ak's, but I see the Thompson as an antique (even though the AK is too) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Good discussion and points. I was also thinking about the range issue earlier. The AK has the Tommy beat in range by over 200 meters. I wonder though, how does the 45 compare to the 7.62 at close range? Like say inside a room? I take it both are equally effective at extreme close range and probably deliver similar knock down power? Anyone got the ballistics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janusthephoenix 24 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Good discussion and points. I was also thinking about the range issue earlier. The AK has the Tommy beat in range by over 200 meters. I wonder though, how does the 45 compare to the 7.62 at close range? Like say inside a room? I take it both are equally effective at extreme close range and probably deliver similar knock down power? Anyone got the ballistics? http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/ I'm going to guess that the AK will kill the bad guy more than the Thompson. Also consider penetration issues, but I won't help beat that to death. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) one has to remember the Thompson was designed for a very different purpose. It was designed for trench warfare, up-close and personal. Thompson Submachine Gun was designed by General John T. Thompson, who was inspired by the trench warfare of World War I to develop a "one-man, hand-held machine gun", firing a pistol caliber round. While searching for a way to allow such a weapon to operate safely without the complexity of a recoil or gas operated mechanism, Thompson came across a patent issued to John Bell Blish in 1915 for a friction delayed blowback action. Thompson found a financial backer, Thomas Fortune Ryan, and started the Auto-Ordnance Corporation in 1916 for the purpose of developing his weapon. The principal designers were Theodore H. Eickhoff, Oscar V. Payne, and George E. Goll. By late 1917, the limits of the Blish lock were discovered, and it had been found that the only cartridge currently in U.S. service suitable for use with the lock was the .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). The project was then titled "Annihilator I", and by 1918, most of the design issues had been resolved. However, the war ended before prototypes could be shipped to Europe. At an Auto-Ordnance board meeting in 1919 to discuss the marketing of the "Annihilator", with the war over, the weapon was officially renamed the "Thompson Submachine Gun". While other weapons had been developed shortly prior with similar objectives in mind, the Thompson was the first weapon to be labeled and marketed as a "submachine gun". Thompson intended the weapon as an automatic 'trench-broom' to sweep enemy troops from the trenches, filling a role for which the BAR had been proven ill-suited. Contemporaneously, this concept was developed by German troops using their own Bergmann MP18 submachine guns in concert with sturmtruppen tactics. Edited November 24, 2009 by Banshee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ulf 1 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Like Ordell said in "Jackie Brown" - "AK-47. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes." MV for the AK in x39 is 2340 for 1485 FPE. For .45ACP MV is 820 for 343 FPE. You've got to figure in bullet weight (123gr for x39 and 230gr for .45), hydrostatic shock and both temporary and permanent wound cavities. I like both rounds and wouldn't feel underarmed with either of them but, for GP use x39 or x51 are superior to .45ACP. Rifles for rifle work and pistols for pistol work. -Ulf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janusthephoenix 24 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Rifles for rifle work and pistols for pistol work. Bingo. You wouldn't use a knife as a screwdriver if given the choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripwire 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I've shot both, a lot, carried both , will take the AK any day of the week, and just to open the door a little bit more, those who seem to want to restrict the Ak to being a 200 yard rifle really need to get out and do some long range shooting with one.. like 500 yds...it will blow your mind... it's a damn fine weapon, some makes are much better then others, Mine is an Arsenal INC Milled rec with a ultimak gas tube/rail and with my Luppy scout scope on it, it is just flat sweet... but yes I have AR's too, and one in X39 that is a shooter too. love the round and the AK.... Thompsons are fun but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 What we really need is a good comparison of the S&W J frame .38 Special against the Barrett M82A3 .50 BMG sniper rifle! Or maybe just the AK Vs. the 1991 Ford F150... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Good discussion and points. I was also thinking about the range issue earlier. The AK has the Tommy beat in range by over 200 meters. I wonder though, how does the 45 compare to the 7.62 at close range? Like say inside a room? I take it both are equally effective at extreme close range and probably deliver similar knock down power? Anyone got the ballistics? Well, an AK's ammo will go right through most bullet resistant vests like a hot knife through butter, but the tommy looks cooler. (to me) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 What we really need is a good comparison of the S&W J frame .38 Special against the Barrett M82A3 .50 BMG sniper rifle! Or maybe just the AK Vs. the 1991 Ford F150... Dude, I have a S&W J frame .38 special and my buddy has a 1991 F-150, maybe I can work on that for a combo! I'll take the .38 for Zero to 60 times! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I love the knockdown power of the .45 ACP... but it's a pistol round. Get a sidearm that fires it. The 7.62x39 is a rifle round and is effective for many times the distance of the .45 ACP, (with far better penetration). Also, the Kalashnikov design is much more reliable and durable than the Thompson. As for looks.. it's completely subjective, but personally I prefer the looks of the AK. Thompsons look downright archaic imo, even compared to AKs, (which ain't exactly new). Ymmv. "Tommy guns" are cool antiques while AKs are still the main infantry weapon of choice for many armies around the world. Edited November 26, 2009 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 What we really need is a good comparison of the S&W J frame .38 Special against the Barrett M82A3 .50 BMG sniper rifle! Or maybe just the AK Vs. the 1991 Ford F150... Dude, I have a S&W J frame .38 special and my buddy has a 1991 F-150, maybe I can work on that for a combo! I'll take the .38 for Zero to 60 times! I know that a J frame will only carry 5 rounds of 158 grains at best. I am pretty sure that the F150 will carry a lot more then that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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