BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I recently purchased an SGL-20 and noticed the only difference between the SGL-21 is that it has the accessory lug off the gas block. Both have the bayonet lug, so the accessory lug allows a grenade launcher on the SGL-21. I know the pricing was lower in October, but now the price for the SGL-21 is $120 more than the SGL-20. Is the accessory lug that sought after to justify the difference in price? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 In my opinion, I have never cared for the accessory lug. Because lets all be honest, the bayonet is all looks. Can you imagine the media reports on that one, home invader MURDERED with bayonet. If im ever in a situation im using my bayonet and not shooting, i need to be praying instead lol. Just my opinion, i think the lugs are more personal preference over need. Allthough i think it does allow attaching of the cleaning rod..or am i wrong? I really could care less if my firearm has one or not. just imo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rifleshooter474 2 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Again I think it's just another little thing to drag a few more dollars out of dumb people. all the numbers for about the same rifle. But more money for items that really mean nothing to most buyers. BUYER BEWARE of what your buying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Edited December 30, 2009 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rifleshooter474 2 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Well I guess my SGL-20 is the exception,fit and finish is good. no signs of being rattle can painted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Well I guess my SGL-20 is the exception,fit and finish is good. no signs of being rattle can painted. Could have been just the early batch of SGL20's that have some of these problems. Mine is an 08 production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mofeen 0 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Well I guess my SGL-20 is the exception,fit and finish is good. no signs of being rattle can painted. What scope and scope mount is that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Could have been just the early batch of SGL20's that have some of these problems. Mine is an 08 production. you must have gotten a vodka special SGL... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rifleshooter474 2 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Well I guess my SGL-20 is the exception,fit and finish is good. no signs of being rattle can painted. What scope and scope mount is that? It's a Leppers UTG978 This mount fits tight on rifle and holds my Aimpoint M4 tight. it also sits right on the bbls center line, and holds the sights zero set when mount is removed and replaced on rifle. Also it has a true 1913 standard type rail system, many other mounts use just a weaver standard type rail. This forces you to file the slots to use them. http://www.leapers.com/production/prod_detail.php?mitem=Mounting%20Systems&level1=AK&level2=&itemno=MNT-978&status= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Could have been just the early batch of SGL20's that have some of these problems. Mine is an 08 production. you must have gotten a vodka special SGL... I know that post-apocalyptic on this forum has complained about the finish and the paint-bubbling on his SGL20 multiple times and so did plenty of people on other forums. The safety lever gap problem is also well-known. Someone said that it happened because Arsenal was using some German safety levers, which were a poor fit. I think that it's less of a "vodka special" issue and more of an "early production problems" issue. The truth is that, even with these problems (most of which are easily/cheaply fixed), it's a still a sweet AKM. Any way, I'm glad that Arsenal resolved these. My SGL21 is almost immaculate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rifleshooter474 2 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Only item I have had to deal with was a Mag. release having it's pivot pin work out on one side. Took a little C-Clamp and some hammering to get it back centered. Pin is short and it's flare was a little shallow on one side. Think I have it now flared enough, them pins are pretty hard. Have to keep and eye on it. Edited December 31, 2009 by rifleshooter474 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) As I've mentioned before, beside the "accessory" lug, there are other significant differences between my own SGL20 and my SGL21. The SGL21 has significantly better fit and finish. SGL20 looks like it's been spray-painted by something (that bubbles on the barrel when it gets hot), the safety lever is dangerously loose, there's a significant gap between the closed safety lever and the dust cover and the dust cover lacks an extra ridge that's found on the SGL21 dust cover and sits kind of weird (too low). In addition, the SGL21 groups a bit better at 100 yards. All in all, I'm really glad that I got this SGL21 when it was $500. I installed a new safety lever and dust cover on my SGL20 and am going to put it on sale soon. Well I guess my SGL-20 is the exception,fit and finish is good. no signs of being rattle can painted. I'm glad that your SGL20's finish is holding up. I've owned two SGL20's. My first was an early 08 model and the finish was poor, (came off easily). My second was a mid 08 model and the finish was significantly more resilient. My current SGL21 has an excellent finish as well. Your rifle looks pretty good. That said, even though I know it doesn't necessarily affect function, that much space between the rear sight block and front trunnion does annoy me. My SGL21's fit is a bit better than the SGL20's I had. No gap there. To the topic: having owned both of these rifles, I don't think that the presence of the accessory lug is worth ~$120. Sure, it's cool to have, but most of us will never have the opportunity to utilize it. The bayo lug is more practical, and that's intact on both the SGL20 and SGL21. I bought a SGL21 while they were ~$500, so the accessory lug was just a welcome bonus. Edited January 1, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Digger44 0 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Again I think it's just another little thing to drag a few more dollars out of dumb people. all the numbers for about the same rifle. But more money for items that really mean nothing to most buyers. BUYER BEWARE of what your buying. I think the dumber people are the ones who post about stuff when they don't know what they are talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nexus 0 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) Like somebody already pointed out, the bayonet lug is intact, and the accessory lug is an almost useless feature unless you can legally acquire and possess a GP-30 grenade launcher. Anyway, I own a 20 and a 21 and I like both. My 20 was certified by Legion 10-2008, and my 21 was certified 04-2009 (gotta love rifles that come with certificates). Knowing how AKs get imported, what I say about my rifles, being from one particular lot, doesn't necessarily apply to the rifles they are shipping now. The paint on my 20 is slightly less even, it scratches easily and can be stripped with chemicals, like typical eastern European rifle paint. I believe that the paint on my 21 is thinner, but applied more evenly. The paint on the 20 looks a little less perfect, but it is glossier, which more closely resembles a Russian finish when compared with the flatter paint on my 21. Its properties with respect to chemical resistance and durability are about the same. I have no problems whatsoever with the paint on either rifle. Use CLP on the paint and especially on any exposed park (due to scratches or wear). The park with CLP is a standalone finish. It's difficult to find photos of issued Russian AKs that do not have plenty of scratches and worn spots. Paint wear is harmless assuming simple maintenance that you would need to carry out as a precaution, even if you had a stronger finish. The 20 is a very accurate 7.62x39 and it has not had any failures of any kind with a variety of magazines, and some light abuse, like dumping a pouch of mags in succession. I've probably fired it 700 times. I have put about half as many rounds through the 21, and it seems to be just as reliable and accurate. Another major difference is the front sight block. At least on the original runs, the 20 had a Bulgy sight block, and the 21 had the Russian AK-100 block. The 20 has a Bulgarian FSB, meaning that it has the appearance of the older Russian AK-74 type sight, rather than the post-1990 AK-100 sight. The 20 ultimately looks incorrect as an AK-100, although I can appreciate it as a gun emulating something slightly retro, and any SGL 20 or 21 ultimately looks incorrect as an AK-100 without the side folder. My 20 has plum furniture, so it creates the illusion as if the Russians made some early fixed stock AK-100 rifles with leftover AK-74 parts as they transitioned over to the AK-100 series around 1990 (for all we know, they did make and issue some such rifles). After all, they certainly did make AK-74s with AKM parts, and have always seemed to mix batches at times, so in my opinion, the combination of parts doesn't look bad at all. My 21 has black furniture to match its AK-100 patterning. One other difference between some 20s and 21s is the barrel. My 20 has a barrel with the outer profile of a standard AK-74 or AKM, whereas my 21 has a different profile, with a slight bulge near the hand guard retainer. I assume it is the newer AK-100 pattern, but I do not know. Either way, they are both noticeably more accurate than my Romanian barrels. Mine both appear to have the same selector. The top cover on my 20 was a standard Saiga hunter cover, which I replaced with an AK-100 cover. My 21 came with the newest AK-100 pattern, with dimpling lining all of the lower edges of the cover, including the ejection port. That is a collector's perk in favor of the 21. With current prices, I think the 20 at $120 less is a better choice as a practical rifle, but I can see how the 21 would have more value to a collector, as it could more easily be made into a perfect AK-103 clone (which would still take quite a bit of careful or expensive work). I see the 20 as a rock solid Russian AK with a slight cosmetic quirk that makes it somewhat unlike modern Russian AKs, whereas the 21 is just as rock solid, but looks slightly more correct as a new AK-100. They are functionally the same, but one of them costs about 20% more. Anyway, that's my long, rambling 2 cents. Edited January 2, 2010 by nexus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rifleshooter474 2 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Again I think it's just another little thing to drag a few more dollars out of dumb people. all the numbers for about the same rifle. But more money for items that really mean nothing to most buyers. BUYER BEWARE of what your buying. I think the dumber people are the ones who post about stuff when they don't know what they are talking about. You prove my point Digger44. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Digger44 0 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Again I think it's just another little thing to drag a few more dollars out of dumb people. all the numbers for about the same rifle. But more money for items that really mean nothing to most buyers. BUYER BEWARE of what your buying. I think the dumber people are the ones who post about stuff when they don't know what they are talking about. You prove my point Digger44. I proved nothing. Your own post speaks for itself. You are the lame one calling people dumb for no reason. Try getting some respect for other forum members who have stated the obvious differences between the two rifles based upon facts they have encountered. Yet you need to run at the mouth and call them dumb. Thanks for your intelligence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gnosticguardian 4 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hopefully you all do know that there are more accessories than just the GP-30 launcher. they do make bipods and other nice toys for people who enjoy that kind of thing...still don't know why you'd put something like that on an AK but to each their own. I will say that the accessory lug may get in the way for my future plans anyways, I really don't wanna test the spacing on a 37mm Havoc and that lug just in case it decides to get in the way. Oh and if the safety lever is jacked up it's real cheap just to buy a new one that may be closer to proper specs. just saying, any AK owner should know that it's truly a DIY weapon considering that's why it was made so simple so soldiers could troubleshoot for themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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