saiga 12 winchoked

[GunRunna47 7]

if a saiga 12 is winchoked does it perform better?? can the winchoke be removed from barrel to add a breacher brake? i have one saiga 109 with no choke, but got an offer on a folder thats winchoked whats the difference in performance....

[Bvamp 604]

well, you can use common chokes on the gun, for one. that is the major benefit.

 

normally, there isnt enough metal left on the barrel to rethread the outside of it to retain the russian threads.....

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Just buy one of Cobra76's Winchoke adapters. That way you can easily switch between chokes and brakes. Do a search and you will find it.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Please allow me....here's a link.

 

http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=43443

 

People are really starting to catch on to these Winchoke adapters. I've been hearing some really good feedback lately from my customers who have bought them. Just a few days ago I got an email from one of our members, who wanted to order another one for his buddy. As it turns out, he was quite impressed with the performance of his S-12 and new adapter, when he put it up against some other chokes. He shoots three gun, so I'm sure he will be using it to his advantage in competitions to come! This adapter is going to prove itself as the most useful product made to screw onto factory S-12 threads. I'm sure of it!

 

 

Anyway, I would like to share that email with the group now.

 

"I just wanted to let you know that I did some testing with your choke tube adapter comparing it with a poly-choke and a gun with internally threaded chokes. Your adapter works great! In fact in one test with bird shot it had a tighter pattern that the gun with internal chokes and it consistently out performed the poly-choke.

Great work!"

 

This was great news to hear, but not too surprising to me, having used one for a while now... Aside from having similar results with shot patterns, I have also seen it transform a true "vodka special" S-12, the only one I've seen still that only had ONE gas port from the factory , into a gun that reliably cycled even the crappiest ammo available for the S-12, the Winchester Universal shot in the value pack at Wallyworld. It wouldn't even eject a shell before, then we tried the adapter with an extra full turkey choke just to see how it would do. It cycled perfectly and was ejecting the spent hulls about five feet.

 

Now if all that wasn't already convincing enough, today I finally got the icing on the cake! I received an extended, rifled Winchoke I ordered, which will allow people to get slug accuracy like most in the US have never seen before, out of their Saiga 12...unless they already had a rifled slug choke and use sabots with it...

I have a Russian Paradox choke myself that I will be testing up against this new Winchoke with adapter, as soon as I can aquire some sabot slugs tomorrow (later today actually). I called my local dealer and he has several brands in stock. They are a little expensive, which is why I've never tested them with my Russian slug choke, but now I have an even better reason to try them. I'll post my results on the forum. If it performs well I will be ordering some more to keep in stock and sell with the adapters, as an option. I'm also planning to get some other patterning chokes to have on hand, besides just the full chokes I'm stocking with them now.

 

 

Some pics...

 

This is my own "one off" custom adapter on my AKS-12 with the Winchoke sabot slug choke.

 

Here are some pics of the Russian Paradox rifled choke for comparison.

 

The rifling grooves on the Winchoke...

 

The two are very similar, each having eight rifling grooves. The Russian Paradox does have 1/2" longer rifling, at 3 1/4", compared to just under 2 3/4" on the Winchoke. Can't wait to see how they compare on paper later.

 

I may also have to get some pics comparing shot patterns between my full and extra full Winchokes, and a couple of poly chokes I've got that screw onto the S-12 threads. Our fellow member who sent me the above email, is also planning to do some more testing and reporting the results on the forum so I'm eagerly awaiting his report as well. Good stuff!

I would also be interested in seeing anyone else's test results if they have done any kind of comparisons with chokes. Please post them.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Getting ready to head to the gun shop soon to buy some sabot slugs. This should be fun! Anyone have any suggestions on which sabots are best to try? I have never bought them before.

[Juiceh 7]

I'm interested in what you find out, Cobra 76 Two. I have a paradox choke tube on its way to me from Russia right now. Try some Remington Buck Hammer slugs. They are supposed to be impressive. I'd also like to see the results with some Dixie Terminator slugs.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Juice

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Well it's cool to see at least one person gives a damn about it. I was pretty damn excited. Went out and got a couple boxes of high dollar shells this morning to test out. They were 12 bucks for 5 rds. They are called Lightfield Lites, reduced recoil hybrid EXPs. They are 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz expanding nose sabot slugs.

http://www.hinterlan...dbx-p-5765.html

Those were the cheap ones...

 

 

They had some Premium Remington Accutips

http://www.thefirear...ded-sabot-slug/

but they were $22.00 for a box of 5. It's gonna take a whole lot more interest than I've seen so far for me to throw that kind of change downrange, just so I can take pictures of one hole groups and talk to myself about it, I know that.

 

These days all anyone wants to talk about here is who is fucking who out of money or who is a standup business and who ain't. Try to bring something of real interest around and it's just not enough drama for this crowd.....

 

Meh....I think I'll just stay inside by this warm fire today and stay comfortable, maybe actually do some healing instead of wasting my time trying to talk sense to people here.

[Juiceh 7]

Don't let the thread spammers get to ya man! There are still lots of people on here interested in this kinda stuff for the S12. Active technical threads with testing and helpful data are what makes this section so great and helps us be able to realize new levels of versatility with our favorite firearms.

 

My choke is coming from Urals, and the pictures he sent me are a bit different than the pictures posted here. I dunno if they were just stock photos of a different choke or what.

 

 

As you can see the rifling is way different. I'll take pics and post them when I receive the item.

 

I'm also considering getting a 7 inch "barrel elongator" from him with threading in the muzzle end to accept the paradox choke. I'm thinking that combined with the 4 inch paradox choke(the pictured one looks longer than 4 inches to me) would produce a pretty wicked ~30 inch slug gun out of my 19 inch S12 that can reach out accurately at ~100 Yards.

 

Would the rifled choke help give rifled slugs a bit more accuracy from some spin when the riflings meet up?

 

If you do any testing are you planing on testing a fully rifled barreled shotgun vs the S12 with the ad on rifled choke tubes and same ammo? I really want to see if the choke tube can make the gun send the slugs down range as accurately as a fully rifled barrel like some people say they do.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Juice

[pyrostevo 2]

I'm interested! I've been wanting to go hog hunting some time soon and i'd be excited if i could hit a group of hogs with some buck up close and then hit a straggler further away with a quick mag change to slugs.

[Juiceh 7]

I'm interested! I've been wanting to go hog hunting some time soon and i'd be excited if i could hit a group of hogs with some buck up close and then hit a straggler further away with a quick mag change to slugs.

From what I've read a rifled choke tube will cause buckshot\birdshot to spread out more. So while you CAN do it, the buckshot used for the hogs will probably be less effective thus possibly creating more stragglers for you got have to take down after that mag change to slugs. Now, if you were firing something a bit bigger than buckshot, say like a Dixie Tri-Ball load(pretty much made for Hog) where there are 3 .60 caliber balls in each shot I don't think the rifling would be a negative thing. You could dump a mag of Tri-Balls into the hogs then switch to slugs IF there are stragglers escaping.

[pyrostevo 2]

Honestly didn't know the tri-balls existed lol thanks! Might have to get one either way now lol.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I don't think it would be good to mix more than one set of rifling grooves Juice.

 

As far as comparing to a fully rifled barrel, that would be good to see. Maybe I can find someone to join me with one....

[termpred 3]

I really enjoy clay shooting and have been thinking about getting a choke for a while, just haven't done it yet because it's too cold out. Until I saw this thread I thought there were just the poly choke type, and the factory Saiga one. This is pretty interesting that there's an adapter for winchokes. I didn't even know that you could shoot slugs through a choke, this is indeed enlightening for me.

[havok 21]

Well it's cool to see at least one person gives a damn about it. I was pretty damn excited. Went out and got a couple boxes of high dollar shells this morning to test out.

 

 

They had some Premium Remington Accutips

http://www.thefirear...ded-sabot-slug/

but they were $22.00 for a box of 5. It's gonna take a whole lot more interest than I've seen so far for me to throw that kind of change downrange,

 

It talks about 200yrd shots on the box of Accutips, That should spark some intrest. How big is your range/yard?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I'm interested! I've been wanting to go hog hunting some time soon and i'd be excited if i could hit a group of hogs with some buck up close and then hit a straggler further away with a quick mag change to slugs.

From what I've read a rifled choke tube will cause buckshot\birdshot to spread out more. So while you CAN do it, the buckshot used for the hogs will probably be less effective thus possibly creating more stragglers for you got have to take down after that mag change to slugs. Now, if you were firing something a bit bigger than buckshot, say like a Dixie Tri-Ball load(pretty much made for Hog) where there are 3 .60 caliber balls in each shot I don't think the rifling would be a negative thing. You could dump a mag of Tri-Balls into the hogs then switch to slugs IF there are stragglers escaping.

 

You could do that or you could just use the standard buck of your choice and some good rifled slugs along with a polychoke, (not rifled). You can change the choke setting, (e.g. from full to slug) on the polychoke in 1-2 seconds. The winchokes and paradox chokes discussed here are rifled, so they're really only meant for sabot slugs, (long-range.. for a shotgun anyway. ), and not shot shells.

 

If versatility is not as important and you'd rather go for maximum range with slugs only, (you can fire shot through a rifled choke, but it spreads out your pattern), then the winchoke or paradox choke would be a better choice. There are other winchokes available of course, but it takes much longer to change them out than it does to change polychoke settings.

Edited January 8, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[pyrostevo 2]

I'm interested! I've been wanting to go hog hunting some time soon and i'd be excited if i could hit a group of hogs with some buck up close and then hit a straggler further away with a quick mag change to slugs.

From what I've read a rifled choke tube will cause buckshot\birdshot to spread out more. So while you CAN do it, the buckshot used for the hogs will probably be less effective thus possibly creating more stragglers for you got have to take down after that mag change to slugs. Now, if you were firing something a bit bigger than buckshot, say like a Dixie Tri-Ball load(pretty much made for Hog) where there are 3 .60 caliber balls in each shot I don't think the rifling would be a negative thing. You could dump a mag of Tri-Balls into the hogs then switch to slugs IF there are stragglers escaping.

 

You could do that or you could just use the standard buck of your choice and some good rifled slugs along with a polychoke, (not rifled). You can change the choke setting, (e.g. from full to slug) on the polychoke in 1-2 seconds. The winchokes and paradox chokes discussed here are rifled, so they're really only meant for sabot slugs, (long-range.. for a shotgun anyway. ), and not shot shells.

 

If versatility is not as important and you'd rather go for maximum range with slugs only, (you can fire shot through a rifled choke, but it spreads out your pattern), then the winchoke or paradox choke would be a better choice. There are other winchokes available of course, but it takes much longer to change them out than it does to change polychoke settings.

 

Ah yes. I actually already have the poly-choke (ordered it with my restoration parts lol) but i have yet to find a ballistic tipped rifled slug lol. Not to mention they look mean as hell compared to rifled slugs lol.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

It only takes seconds to unscrew the winchoke adapter with whatever choke you have in it at the time....or unscrew the choke from within, and switch to a different one. That is the beauty of it. If you are shooting shot through a full choke busting clays, and you want to switch to a rifled (common) slug to hit some steel at a distance.... or you are spraying hogs with buckshot and one starts limping away so you want to drill it with a slug...you don't have to change any choke settings. All rifled slugs are made to shoot through any size choke, including full. That's basically what the fins, or "rifling" is for on the slug. It serves zero purpose as actual rifling and puts no spin on the projectile. It's purpose is to stabilize the slug in the barrel as it passes through the choke, keeping the slug itself from getting deformed by the choke.

If the winchoke full, out performs the poly set on full, then who cares if it's faster to change the settings on the poly? If I hit my target and you don't, that's all I care about.

 

Now if you want to use a rifled choke to really hit tight groups at a long distance, then that's when you use the winchoke adapter with a rifled choke tube....or if you happen to be one of the very few who have a paradox, use that. The rifled choke tubes are a lot easier to get unless you live in Russia or the UK.

[David Mark 2,452]

Looking forward to the tests with the rifled chokes and sabots.

I am here to learn.

[lg308 2]

Cobra, this probably adds little to the conversation but when I lived in NJ back in the 80's my brother and I decided that we were going to get the most from our shot guns (cant use rifle in NJ for hunting) So we both bought rifled barrels for our guns (His)mossberg 500 with a Hastings rifled barrel (Mine)Rem 1100 with a hastings rifled barrel with our shot guns sporting some new iron we set out to see what we had. I remeber at the time the sabots had come out made by BRI? I think. We bought them up and soon found out we werent hitting crap on paper. After that more determined than ever we were back to the store only this time we bought some of everything they had (slugs) for testing. In the end and after all the money was spent good old cheap Winchester 2 3/4 slugs proved to be deadly out of both guns. I later heard BRI had some problems with thier plastic do-hickys (yes thats a real word here in AL) separating consistently but I dont know how much truth thier ever was to that. The only thing I cared about was deer ended up in the freezer out to a 100 yards with what I had wich was way better than before.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Well from all I've read about rifled chokes and rifled shotgun barrels, you need a sabot to really get any use out of the rifling. I was in wallyworld today so I went ahead and picked up a couple of boxes of Remington Sluggers to try for the hell of it. From my past experience firing regular slugs through the paradox, it didn't help accuracy, if anything it hindered it. Those sluggers have always been pretty damned accurate out of my S-12s with no choke at all, so if nothing else I'll have something good to compare the sabots to. I'm going to check with my other local gun shop and see what kind of sabots he has too.

[thewogster 0]

I'm very interested in hearing the results too. I've been reading a lot of great things about the Sabot's and am intersted in shot's between 75-150 yards. From what I've heard the rifled slugs are pretty decent up to 100 but I'd really like to have the option of accuracy at further distances with the sabot.

 

Additionally, If that doesn't work out - anyone have experience shooting a good rifled slug. Looking for something that packs a punch at 100 yards with very little drop.

 

Like Pyrostevo I'm looking to get some hogs as well, can't wait for my trip to Texas at the end of March!

 

Thanks,

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Once I get my gun sighted in good at 50 - 75, I'll see what they will do out to 100 and past. I've got at least 150 yds to work with here. I know the sabots shouldn't drop as much as the Remington Sluggers out there.

[Juiceh 7]

I got my Paradox Choke and barrel elongator from Urals and I've been itching to pickup some sweet slugs and get out there and do some shooting!! I hope your recovery goes well Cobra. I look forward to your results once you're able to get out there and sling some slugs downrange!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

That paradox definitely looks like the next size up from the one I bought from Rusmil. That's pretty cool. Can't wait to see your results too. Thanks for the good words man. Damn if they didn't call me in for surgery too so now it will still be longer before I can do some slug testing with this thing. They cut my neck open about 9" or so from adam's apple to back of ear and put 22 staples in there, so it would probably hurt like hell firing all those slugs from my right shoulder dammit. Well at least one good thing is coming out of the delay anyway, it's giving me time to acquire more types of slugs to try...just picked up two kinds of Brenneke slugs that I've never tried. One is something called "special forces" I think. Says they will go through an engine block.

 

[Juiceh 7]

Yeah, I saw the pics in your thread. I figured it would be a while before you'd want to even try shooting some slugs without fearing tearing them staples open. Best of luck with recovery man! I'm sure the results will be well worth the wait!

 

 

Also, when you have time could you snap a few pics of the paradox choke you got. The only pics I've been able to find have been pretty small. Some close ups of the rifling and the choke next to a ruler for size reference is what I'm looking for. I'm kinda puzzled why mine is different.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Juice

[Juiceh 7]

Some interesting info here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=78235

 

Pretty interesting stuff Dixie Slugs has to say about rifled choke tubes.