Saiga 12 conversion with mag-well

[lionheart3 5]

Please tell me which company's conversion is better :

 

GoGun

http://www.gogun.us/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_S12.tpl&product_id=89&category_id=30&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=109

with this mag well http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-312/AGP-Saiga-12-Magazine/Detail?sfs=8330ea0b

 

or

 

 

 

RandRTargets

with thier mag-well

 

http://randrtargets.com/saiga_shotgun_tactical.htm

 

 

or

 

 

Peach State Guns, LLC

http://shop.peachstateguns.com/product.sc?productId=643&categoryId=67

with this mag well http://store.carolin...il?sfs=8330ea0b

Edited January 20, 2010 by lionheart3

[oldandslow 3]

Whoa...

 

What a great question. Let the fur fly. I'm partial to the CSS mag well, made by Jack Travers. Of course I know Jack, even though we are on the outs. But he'll get over it.

 

I'm sure that you are aware that the R&R mag uses a new mag release mechanism, removing the Saiga mag release. You have to put a slot into the side of your magazines.

 

I have to admit the R&R magwell and trigger guard, pistol grip combination look mighty good.

Edited January 20, 2010 by oldandslow

[gtnichols 51]

Tromix is supposed to be ready for new orders sometime soon (Maybe July)

[lionheart3 5]

Tromix is supposed to be ready for new orders sometime soon (Maybe July)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have 2 Tromix converted Saiga 12 ,

I love tony's work , but I am looking for something different now .

 

No more Tromix for me.

Edited January 20, 2010 by lionheart3

[lionheart3 5]

Whoa...

 

What a great question. Let the fur fly. I'm partial to the CSS mag well, made by Jack Travers. Of course I know Jack, even though we are on the outs. But he'll get over it.

 

I'm sure that you are aware that the R&R mag uses a new mag release mechanism, removing the Saiga mag release. You have to put a slot into the side of your magazines.

 

I have to admit the R&R magwell and trigger guard, pistol grip combination look mighty good.

 

 

Ok

 

Which one should I buy ?

 

R&R & The GoGun have similar trigger-guard

Edited January 20, 2010 by lionheart3

[Paulyski 2,227]

No Red Jacket with classic wood trim & AK sights option, & Carolina's magwell?

If you have 2 of Tromix's evil S-12s, you need a pretty lady to keep them company.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Ok

 

Which one should I buy ?

 

R&R & The GoGun have similar trigger-guard

 

It's personal preference.

Do you have any AR-X platform rifles?

Do you have any experience with AR platform rifles?

Will you ever use a drum?

 

The R&R seems to target the AR crowd. The JT magwell seems more like the factory Saiga magwell design and uses the factory mag release. The JT can be removed if you want to run a drum.

[PRISONSHANK 70]

+1 to Paulyski's idea!!

[lionheart3 5]

I just want a saiga with mag well

[lionheart3 5]

Could you please recommend a gunsmith to do the conversion for me

I need :

- pistol grip conversion, cut the tang and welded on back plate (for folding stock)

- left side charging handle.

- mag-well installed ( magazines modified )

- AR style safety .

- I am still thinking about cutting down the barrel to 16.5 and P A shark break or any flash hider.

 

- no iron sights . I will use this http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=357063

 

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=179957

[jdtravers 637]

Reference to the magwells. They can be a problem as it takes quite a bit of modification to the magazine to make them work and they are a compromise between reliability and speed.

 

The magwell design is what keeps me awake at night, figuring out how to make it 100% reliable.

 

Last night I worked on a simple modification and I now have 100% reliability, straight in insertion and positive lock. It is incredible how well it works.

 

I will post a video this evening and go into detail. It can easily be fitted to all existing JT Engineering Magwells for 100% reliability. Magazines falling out will be a thing of the past.

 

AND, I will not loose any more sleep!!!

 

Regards,

 

Jack Travers

JT Engineering

 

PS: Old and Slow, It's the president of the club that I have a problem with, not you. I have much respect for you. But still, I need to get a hold of my temper!!

[Heath_h49008 442]

Jack, will the fix work for your early magwells as well?

[Heath_h49008 442]

I fit a little wedge in the front of my magwell to guide the front edge, it was no big deal, but it made slapping the new mag in easier in case I was pushing forward too much.

 

My mags don't fall perfectly free every time, I intentionally left them a bit tight. They "rock" in less than my G3 H&K, but still like a little front to back motion.

 

If Jack has a quick fix to let me loosen them up more, I'm all ears!

[jdtravers 637]

Jack, will the fix work for your early magwells as well?

 

Absolutely!! I am pretty excited about this, as it resolves the fit/loose magazine issues.

 

Jack

[lionheart3 5]

does R&R Magwell resolves the fit/loose magazine issues.

 

Does they have 100% reliability ?

Edited July 15, 2010 by lionheart3

[lionheart3 5]

My question is :

 

Are R&R magwells 100% now ?

 

I am asking because I see that : R&R have longer magwells which means more support also it has better and more positive side mag catch which helps locking the mags in.

 

Also I THINK R&R CNC-machine The mags ? which make them all standard.

 

Now I could conclude that R&R magwells are the best magwells out there.

 

I am going to order one of their guns soon, and I will post a report.

[Heath_h49008 442]

They (R&R) also require CNC modified mags to fit the slot they need for that latch of theirs.

 

If cash is no option, go for it, tell me what you think. I'll listen to Jack who pioneered the magwells here. (and they're better than the Russian factory wells too!) And I'll save the money to buy more ammo and mags.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Heath_h49008

[Heath_h49008 442]

Me too Jack... Can you jut describe it a little?

[jdtravers 637]

I have just relocated back to Louisiana. It will be a week or two before I am back up to speed.

 

I don't want to be the bad guy here. Go ahead and buy an R&R and then you can post your opinion based on your personal experience.

 

Jack

[jdtravers 637]

Me too Jack... Can you jut describe it a little?

 

The problem is the minimum surface contact at the front of the Magazine. It is supported by the .063 sheet metal under the magwell.

 

I have developed an insert that will add plenty of surface area and then the magazine becomes a true straight insertion and drop free. Pretty simple, but incredible how effective it is. Takes it to a whole new level of efficiency and reliability. No further modifications to the gun are necessary.

 

Jack

[Heath_h49008 442]

Ok, if I'm reading you right, you're filling the gap between the receiver and the trunnion to support the front of the magazine.

 

I'll wait to see the vid for exactly how much of that area you're filling, and where more material can be taken off the mags.

 

Thanks, I feel better having purchased one of your 'wells knowing you look out for your customers and designs like this.

 

Heath

[RGVBadBoy 9]

Mr. Travers, are these magwells available on your site now? I just recieved my conversion from you store and the pieces worked flawlessly and your instructions were great, I'm a first time builder/converter with NO Saiga experience and my Saiga looks and functions GREAT!!! I will be ordering a few more pieces from you within in the week, I hope the updated magwell is available for purchase by the end of the week.

 

Thank you,

 

Mike

[jdtravers 637]

Mike,

 

All my parts are available directly from Carolina Shooters Supply. I am still a little behind the power curve trying to get settled back in Louisiana. Probably have more details about the mag well mod within the week.

 

Jack Travers

[RGVBadBoy 9]

Mike,

 

All my parts are available directly from Carolina Shooters Supply. I am still a little behind the power curve trying to get settled back in Louisiana. Probably have more details about the mag well mod within the week.

 

Jack Travers

Mr. Travers,

 

Thank you for your quick reply, I look foward to the information regarding the new magwell.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mike

[6500rpm 670]

Do any of the magwell manufacturers stand behind there product in terms of trade in's? If a part was made to rush to market, or without sufficient testing to make them 100% reliable, will they take them back in trade in on a new improved version? Just wondering how each company stands behind their product. AGP aand Promag made concessions between their gen 1 and gen 2 mags, will magwell manufacturers do the same?

[gpqueen 545]

Do any of the magwell manufacturers stand behind there product in terms of trade in's? If a part was made to rush to market, or without sufficient testing to make them 100% reliable, will they take them back in trade in on a new improved version? Just wondering how each company stands behind their product. AGP aand Promag made concessions between their gen 1 and gen 2 mags, will magwell manufacturers do the same?

The JTE magwells that we sell work 100% when installed correctly. The insert Jack is talking about is for ones not installed correctly that can drop out. The insert goes on the inside of the gun to add more material to the guns internal opening.

I have the Magwell we sell on 4 different guns with over 12,000 rounds and I have never had one drop out and no insert used. There is no need for a new and improved version.

[Heath_h49008 442]

As I said before, I have never had an issue, but I was very careful about how much I took off my mags. If the insert helps me take more off my mags, and lets them drop free even easier, I'm all ears.

 

Maybe it would be better to say, it will take a 100% reliability to 100%+ easier drop, and restore 100 functionality even with marginal installation.

 

I don't think anyone is confused about the JT 'wells having a problem...They don't when you install them right. But, this is further optimization and a fix in case you or your gunsmith goofed.

[lionheart3 5]

R&R Targets Saiga 12

 

The fit and finish is perfect.

I took the shotgun to the range yesterday and I fired 300 of target loads and 120 round of slugs and double-o-buck , just to test it out.

The shotgun was flawless.

I think my search for the perfect magwell is over now.

[lionheart3 5]

I took my R&R saiga-12 to the range again today.

The shotgun was flawless again with all kind of loads.

I fired slugs and double-o-buck without any problems.

R&R magwells are the best magwells in the market.

 

The fit and finish is perfect.

I really love the AR Style safety.

The trigger guard is just perfect and pistol grip is ergonomic.

The stock adapter is great and solid.

the competition trigger just feels like a dream come true.

R&R Targets' saiga-12 is the most advanced saiga-12, and they're the future of saigas.

If R&R start selling their saiga-12 on a larger scale, they are going to drive all other saiga-12 converters out of business.

Edited July 22, 2010 by lionheart3

[Doug Hartley 526]

If I got a $2500 shotgun for just about free I'd have a stiffy too, but give it a rest, pretty much everybody on this forum thinks you're a nut or a shill and it's starting to make us look bad. I'm glad you are happy, if you want to make me happy, send the gun back to R&R and we will give you a reward.

 

Doug