justinmcmillion 77 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Ive already moved the gas system back on my s-12 and had plans to shorten it to 12" Should I apply for the stamp and go through with it? Or should I wait for an 8" one (wouldnt mind having both and actually prefer the looks of the 12") Im extremely happy with it the way it is, but it would look better with a shorter bbl not to mention be more compact. I need pros and cons, and velocity doesn't really matter to me.. some pics for reference. Most recent picture. has about a 15.5" bbl with permanently attached FH for a total length of 18.125" Photoshopped images with 12" bbl Ill only be cutting another 3.5" or so off the bbl but I would be able to remove the FH or just use the factory bbl nut. So with the same FH it will only be 3.5" shorter, with the bbl nut 6" shorter... THanks for any and all opinions. JMac Edited January 21, 2010 by J_Mac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
diamondback 56 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Well, if I were in an NFA state and OK with all the paperwork (I hate paperwork, it asks too many questions), I might consider building up both 8" and 12" front-halves, swapping them out as the mood struck. But then you'd need to consult ATF Firearms Tech Branch about "how do I list multiple barrel lengths for an SBS with multiple barrels?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Well, if I were in an NFA state and OK with all the paperwork (I hate paperwork, it asks too many questions), I might consider building up both 8" and 12" front-halves, swapping them out as the mood struck. I think you'd have more fun designing the "swappable barrel system" for the Saiga so your idea would be more easily accomplished. . . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
diamondback 56 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 By "swap", I mean not plug-and-play like a Masada, but doing the smithing work on the bench to go from one bore to the other. I'm not talking "field replaceable" here... developing that might involve an SOT, which brings us back to Square One. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Can't provide the necessary feedback as RJ is still building the 12" right now. I do have a RJ 8" and it's a lot of fun. The fireball on the 8" is very pronounced. Also, it is really really LOUD! You do not want to have your ear pro off if it is being shot. One shot and your ears are ringing. I'm hoping the 12" will not foul as quickly as the 8". My 8" gets a lot of wad build up in the gas chamber after about 100 rounds. I really don't think the extra 4" will be noticeable to the handling of the gun. The same is true on my AR's. I have a 7.25" AR and when I switch to a 10.5" barrel I really don't feel any differences. I do notice the welcomed decrease in muzzle blast, however. So, it's hard for me to compare the difference between a 8" and a 12". But, I think if I were to get just one, it would be a foot long. YMMV Oh, and yes, it is well worth the extra $$$ and hassle to SBS. Nice looking gun BTW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Well, if I were in an NFA state and OK with all the paperwork (I hate paperwork, it asks too many questions), I might consider building up both 8" and 12" front-halves, swapping them out as the mood struck. But then you'd need to consult ATF Firearms Tech Branch about "how do I list multiple barrel lengths for an SBS with multiple barrels?" Well, if I were in an NFA state and OK with all the paperwork (I hate paperwork, it asks too many questions), I might consider building up both 8" and 12" front-halves, swapping them out as the mood struck. I think you'd have more fun designing the "swappable barrel system" for the Saiga so your idea would be more easily accomplished. . . Tony actually made an SBS with a detachable front trunion, very cool concept but probably way too much work Can't provide the necessary feedback as RJ is still building the 12" right now. I do have a RJ 8" and it's a lot of fun. The fireball on the 8" is very pronounced. Also, it is really really LOUD! You do not want to have your ear pro off if it is being shot. One shot and your ears are ringing. I'm hoping the 12" will not foul as quickly as the 8". My 8" gets a lot of wad build up in the gas chamber after about 100 rounds. I really don't think the extra 4" will be noticeable to the handling of the gun. The same is true on my AR's. I have a 7.25" AR and when I switch to a 10.5" barrel I really don't feel any differences. I do notice the welcomed decrease in muzzle blast, however. So, it's hard for me to compare the difference between a 8" and a 12". But, I think if I were to get just one, it would be a foot long. YMMV Oh, and yes, it is well worth the extra $$$ and hassle to SBS. Nice looking gun BTW. Thats why I originally went with the 12" idea heard the blast from an 8" was a little too much. Mine fouls considerable more than the factory gas system, but even after 200-300rds still runs great. The shorter gas system is the best thing Ive done to my s12 right next to the conversion I also have a SBR AR with 7.5" bbl and the blast is unbelevable and its VERY LOUD. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 You'll think that 7.5" AR with the piggy is quite compared to a 8" S-12. I mean, I thought the 8" 7.62 AK was loud and had a lot of muzzle blast. The 8" SBS is obnoxious(fun...if you're ready for it). In reality, when you subtract the 3" for the shell chamber there is only about 5" of barrel there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 You'll think that 7.5" AR with the piggy is quite compared to a 8" S-12. I mean, I thought the 8" 7.62 AK was loud and had a lot of muzzle blast. The 8" SBS is obnoxious(fun...if you're ready for it). In reality, when you subtract the 3" for the shell chamber there is only about 5" of barrel there. So maybe 12" is the way to go... Esp. if one where to plan on shooting it a bunch like I do... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 You'll think that 7.5" AR with the piggy is quite compared to a 8" S-12. I mean, I thought the 8" 7.62 AK was loud and had a lot of muzzle blast. The 8" SBS is obnoxious(fun...if you're ready for it). In reality, when you subtract the 3" for the shell chamber there is only about 5" of barrel there. So maybe 12" is the way to go... Esp. if one where to plan on shooting it a bunch like I do... Shotshell powder is fast burning. A 1600 FPS load in an 18" gun leaves a 8" gun at over 1200 FPS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 I just wanted to add that the backblast, noise, and fireball are the things I like the most about my 8" gun. If you don't really like those things, then I'd go for the 12". JMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 There's no real difference in backblast, noise, and fireball between a 12" and an 8", except that it's 4" further from the end of your nose with the 12"....... !! That does make a difference.......... TROMIX makes two excellent muzzle attachments for the S12: The Shark Brake (backblast), and the Flash Hider (minimal backblast). Have them both, but run the Flash Hider on my 10", and love it !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 DO it Doooit. And your local FFL has just as many things to fill in on a back ground check as a form 1 has. NFA is not alot of paper work, but it is a lot of waiting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Just wanted to say.... if you're in Alabama, contact your state representative and tell them support House Bill 2 to repeal the state ban on SBS's and SBR's. Help bring Alabama's 2nd Amendment freedoms up to par with the other "free" states! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted January 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Thanks for all the helpful information and helping me spend an extra $200 Ill post pictures when I get my stamp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 This barrel extension would be a cool toy to just thread onto an 8" gun: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=31675 You would have the shorty little 8" 12 gauge that grabs so much attention and fits in a small backpack, but the ability to throw tight patterns of shot a long distance by just threading on the extension. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 I like them both: The 8" is more maneuverable But the 12" is less "in your face" when you shoot it It really depends on what you intend to use it for IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockmup 12 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 And with a 12" and a xxfull rem-choke you can still shoot skeet ! I like the 11-12's the best but its nothing more than my preference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 This Saiga will be used for personal defense, Plinking, Zombie hunting, tree trimming, ammo wasting, good time having, Look at my 12 gauge its box fed and fits in a tennis racket bag bragging... you know stuff like that.. Ive been contemplating getting into 3 gun competitions, but I would use my 19" saiga 12 for that. I have always wanted an 8" but if the 12 turns out to be compact enough I might just happy with it. There's only a 0 difference in price between SBS'ing mine and the 8" to bad its at the end of the number... ($200, $2000) Lets be honest you cant shoot one of these with a 19" bbl without earplugs... Where I shortened mine I noticed that it is significantly louder.. I like the looks of a 12" better, its more proportional IMO, but the 8" would get a lot more attention. Is there any difference in recoil? I don't plan on shoot 3" through this gun anyway, more concerned with next target acquisition time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Is there any difference in recoil? . . . more concerned with next target acquisition time. Difference in recoil? I don't think so. But the 8" is just more "in your face" when you shoot it, due to the shorter barrel, so unless you are pretty use to it I would imagine that it could affect your target acquisition time. But once you get used to it, no problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvis christ 451 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just wanted to say.... if you're in Alabama, contact your state representative and tell them support House Bill 2 to repeal the state ban on SBS's and SBR's. Help bring Alabama's 2nd Amendment freedoms up to par with the other "free" states! That's good to know. Who is sponsoring it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I like them both: The 8" is more maneuverable But the 12" is less "in your face" when you shoot it It really depends on what you intend to use it for IMO. ..........and the 10" is juuuuussssssst right !! Manueuverable and out of your face !! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Just wanted to say.... if you're in Alabama, contact your state representative and tell them support House Bill 2 to repeal the state ban on SBS's and SBR's. Help bring Alabama's 2nd Amendment freedoms up to par with the other "free" states! That's good to know. Who is sponsoring it? Jeremy Oden introduced it. It's already passed! Landslide victory, too: 83 yes, 7 no, with 2 abstaining. It still has to go thru the state senate though... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 I like them both: The 8" is more maneuverable But the 12" is less "in your face" when you shoot it It really depends on what you intend to use it for IMO. ..........and the 10" is juuuuussssssst right !! Manueuverable and out of your face !! You know, I have thought about cutting my 12" down to 10" to have an approximate overall barrel length (with muzzle attachment) of 12", like yours with a muzzle attachment, for additional maneuverability. But now I'm of the mind to do a little testing with my 8" and a flash suppressor, which brings the approximate overall barrel length to about 10", the length of yours (w/o a muzzle attachment) but with a shorter HG. And if that works out well, running my 12" with no muzzle attachment, which would be the approximate length of yours with a muzzle attachment. Or I could just get a 10" too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 What the hell, Raoul........ You already have an 8" and a 12", so you might as well go ahead and split the difference and get a 10" !!! Talk about having a matched set of weapons, sitting with that shorty 7.62....!! Oh yeah !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Well Jeaux, I've got to put the 10" off for now, I'm still looking for a TROMIX surf board to ride while I'm shooting my Micro 7.62 . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Well Jeaux, I've got to put the 10" off for now, I'm still looking for a TROMIX surf board to ride while I'm shooting my Micro 7.62 . . . Psssssst....Hey !! I know where you can get one........Really !! Outside of (naturally) the guns, this is possibly the baddest piece of TROMIX memorabilia you're going to find !! Edited February 2, 2010 by Jeaux E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 That IS cool as hell Jeaux! But, I don't think I really need one. If I change my mind though, I'll give you a shout. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted February 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 Im now thinking about 10" ? I dont care how much I need to clean it... Its just a toy anyway, I really think this would be the ultimate compromise between mobility and firepower Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted February 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 I like them both: The 8" is more maneuverable But the 12" is less "in your face" when you shoot it It really depends on what you intend to use it for IMO. ..........and the 10" is juuuuussssssst right !! Manueuverable and out of your face !! Does this have the gas system of an 8" gun? I think I can get mine to run with the gas system I have and a 10" bbl with cheap-o ammo? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted May 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 (edited) A little update guys, registered it as a 10" sbs received my stamp and chopped the bbl I also added an Izhmash 5.5mm Folder and riveted on a trigger guard + reinforcement place. The gun cycles wally word rederal ammo. Will take some pictures in the next couple days but heres a video untill then First up a full mag of wally world federal then 3" Nitro Turkey (Flame Test ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyc4UIabII8 The recoil and follow up shot times aren't bad at all you'll see in the video that I maintain a pretty flat bbl during shooting, even with the 3" there's not much rise Night time shoot videos to come! Edited May 15, 2010 by JMac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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